Many questions

[James_Lai]

Hello.
I grew up with no religion, but now I am interested in religion. So I look at different teachings. I have really many questions about the Christian faith. Maybe you can help. I already asked questions to different people.

I read the Bible, first time reading as adult. And remember, no religious background. The book seemed quite old, but maybe because I was using an old Chinese translation. So I take modern English translation like NIV. Still many ideas are so old and very difficult to understand. Or some places for me impossible to accept. I expected more logical and more deep book. It seems so much a mixture of different things.

Then I go to church, and I see a teaching that differs in different churches. Also it seems they base the teachings on the Bible loosely. Like only taking some portions that they like and then applying to how they want to interpret them. I don’t always understand where the teachings are actually coming from. Maybe there was a different book, or just an oral tradition that formed over time and became accepted.

There are books I love. The Gospels. Or in old Testament, some Psalms are so beautiful or the Book of Job is excellent, thought provoking discussion of their philosophy. Most books to me are confusing, boring, unacceptable or irrelevant. Some are neutral like history for example.

I speak to people from churches, I make appointments. We had Zoom meetings during lockdowns. So I ask questions not so much about the teachings, but their experience. I ask, you claim so and so, please tel me how it is in your life.

My first and biggest question was, I do not see or feel God around. I do not see any difference in life of believer or unbeliever. Please give me example of how God works in your life, or how prayer works for you. All they tell me for now is that they just believe normal happening as work of God. I was disappointed, because I was waiting for true story of magical or miraculous.

I have many more questions, sorry if I’m writing in confusing way.

 

[BeyondET]

what was the reason to be interested in religion now?

 

[GospelS]

I do not see or feel God around

Welcome.

God is already with you. He can see and feel you. We may not feel Him at the beginning. I encourage that you continue to seek and follow.

Your interest/questions/confusion about the Christian faith is the proof that God is with you, seeing you, feeling you, leading and working in you- to help you find and know Him that one day you may finally see and feel Him.

 

[James_Lai]

When I read the Bible, I can see that the way of thinking and the way to express themselves, their thought was so different in the past and in their culture. It’s very distant for me. Nowadays we have a very different background in knowledge, upbringing, culture, traditions, way of thinking. It seems that much of the Bible is just not for me, or that I’m missing a lot of its contents and message because I lack the underlying foundation of what was in people’s hearts, minds, daily life then. I can understand some by trying to put in the historic, cultural and linguistic context, but it’s blind guessing and unsure what if I’m reading too much into it or the wrong thing or not enough. There’s commentaries, and they help, but they differ. Or there are Judaist commentaries and Christian ones and they can say different things about the same book or passage. Sometimes when reading the Bible I feel I see the tip of the iceberg and I’m missing the main point that’s hiding under the water. Also because the books that are gathered inside the covers of the Bible are like little pieces of several big puzzles most of which have been lost, that got accidentally put together to form a new picture.

 

[James_Lai]

what was the reason to be interested in religion now?

I moved to live in Canada to go to university. I met a man who was preaching the Bible on campus and meeting with me and my friend. We would meet in the food court usually during lunch. So it was unusual to hear abot God and something more that happens before and after you are born. I became intrigued. Then we had Islamic students that always said revert to true faith, they also organized different events on campus. We had JW and Mormon tables near food court. So it’s how it started, but I want to know what is true….

 

[James_Lai]

We had several Christian and a Muslim chapelains I think they were called, in the Interfaith Centre on campus. I bugged them all quite a bit LOL, but honeslty they didn’t care much. Maybe they were there just for being paid, I don’t know. They really didn’t do much or would not be even present often when they were supposed to

 

[Andrewn]

I read the Bible, first time reading as adult. And remember, no religious background. The book seemed quite old, but maybe because I was using an old Chinese translation. So I take modern English translation like NIV. Still many ideas are so old and very difficult to understand. Or some places for me impossible to accept. I expected more logical and more deep book. It seems so much a mixture of different things.

When I read the Bible, I can see that the way of thinking and the way to express themselves, their thought was so different in the past and in their culture. It’s very distant for me. Nowadays we have a very different background in knowledge, upbringing, culture, traditions, way of thinking. It seems that much of the Bible is just not for me, or that I’m missing a lot of its contents and message because I lack the underlying foundation of what was in people’s hearts, minds, daily life then.

Welcome to the Christian Forums.

The Bible was written over a period of up to 1500 years. And it is composed of many books. It does not make sense to read it from beginning to end.

The Bible books can be grouped as follows:

1) Old Testament: a) The Torah; b) The Writings (which include Psalms, Job, and Proverbs); c) The Prophets (which include the historical books).

2) New Testament: a) The Gospels; b) The Letters of Paul & others.

It does not make for a seeker to read the Torah or the Prophets. Leave them for later. The other 3 sections are more edifying and, of course, the Gospels are the most important.

I think it is important to ask God for understanding, even if you don't believe in a God.

Then I go to church, and I see a teaching that differs in different churches. Also it seems they base the teachings on the Bible loosely. Like only taking some portions that they like and then applying to how they want to interpret them. I don’t always understand where the teachings are actually coming from. Maybe there was a different book, or just an oral tradition that formed over time and became accepted.

There may be different views on some issues. But the main issue is to believe that there is one God who is both creator and redeemer and to believe that he loves you and loves the world. There is a lot of comfort in these beliefs. And feel free to ask questions to your friends, or here if you wish.

 

[James_Lai]

Welcome.

God is already with you. He can see and feel you. We may not feel Him at the beginning. I encourage that you continue to seek and follow.

Thank you. Is God a neutral energy-like force or a supernatural all-powerful human-like person that is capable of interaction with me? Because I never in any way detect His presence, no matter how much I try achieving that, including calling to Him, speaking to Him, praying even fasting. There is absolute silence in responce. Life simply goes on as if there is no God, no communication, no influence on any events in my life.

Your interest/questions/confusion about the Christian faith is the proof that God is with you, seeing you, feeling you, leading and working in you- to help you find and know Him that one day you may finally see and feel Him.

Maybe. However, I’m interested in all kinds of faith and so far I see though they are different, they seem to claim things that I do not find evidence for in my or other people’s lives whether belivers or unbelievers…

 

[James_Lai]

Welcome to the Christian Forums.

The Bible was written over a period of up to 1500 years. And it is composed of many books. It does not make sense to read it from beginning to end.

The Bible books can be grouped as follows:

1) Old Testament: a) The Torah; b) The Writings (which include Psalms, Job, and Proverbs); c) The Prophets (which include the historical books).

2) New Testament: a) The Gospels; b) The Letters of Paul & others.

It does not make for a seeker to read the Torah or the Prophets. Leave them for later. The other 3 sections are more edifying and, of course, the Gospels are the most important.

I think it is important to ask God for understanding, even if you don't believe in a God.


There may be different views on some issues. But the main issue is to believe that there is one God who is both creator and redeemer and to believe that he loves you and loves the world. There is a lot of comfort in these beliefs. And feel free to ask questions to your friends, or here if you wish.

Thank you.

When I first met the campus missionary, he recommended to read the Godpel of John and the Epistle to Romans. I was charmed and impressed by the person of Jesus, He reminded me of the idealistic communist revolutionaries in China a century ago, so passionate about an idea for the betterment of the human society at the cost of their own lives.

Later I read and stidied the Bible much deeper, and have been doing so over the years on and off. I’ve read through the whole Bible a few times, consulting dictionaries, encyclopedias, commentaries.

To repeat my overall thought, the Bible fell short of my expectations for a divine book. I don’t see how it can substantiate the claims that are made about it. As for the information conained in it, it’s hard to accept much of it as it’s quite contradictory sometimes, unclear, missing important parts, therefore confising. Assuming, we understand correctly what we think we understand in it.

An as already mentioned, so far I have a hard time finding the ideas from the Bible or held by churches working in my life or lives of other people

 

[Sketcher]

Then I go to church, and I see a teaching that differs in different churches. Also it seems they base the teachings on the Bible loosely. Like only taking some portions that they like and then applying to how they want to interpret them. I don’t always understand where the teachings are actually coming from. Maybe there was a different book, or just an oral tradition that formed over time and became accepted.

• Part of that could be a product of the assembly that you attend. There are unfortunately, some that lean more heavily on their biases than is warranted.
• It can also be a consequence of the topics a sermon mentions being too large and complex for one sermon.

My first and biggest question was, I do not see or feel God around. I do not see any difference in life of believer or unbeliever. Please give me example of how God works in your life, or how prayer works for you. All they tell me for now is that they just believe normal happening as work of God. I was disappointed, because I was waiting for true story of magical or miraculous.

The ultimate understanding of God is spiritual. That is how I know God, but I don't know if I can explain the spiritual to you and do it justice. The best illustration I can provide is similar to the one Jesus gave in John 3:8:

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

God moves things kind of like that. He can also do things like part the Red Sea, but he's not restricted to doing things on that scale, in that way. Whether he moves in big events like that or in smaller, personal ways, the "wind" that moves them is his Spirit at work.

Now, another item I ought to mention which is a consequence of this - there's a difference between divine providence and divine miracles. Miracles cannot be explained by science (i.e. Jesus Christ bodily rising from the dead on the third day after being crucified and speared). Providence is when events that could potentially be explained by science are initiated by God, for his purposes (i.e. people have tried to explain the plague of darkness in Exodus 9:21-23 as volcanic ash from a massive eruption; God could very well have caused a volcano to erupt and a wind to blow, and if he did it that way, that would be providence). It's possible for more modern understandings of science to cause us to understand more events as providence rather than miracles, but that's OK because ultimately, God made them happen for his reasons. The spiritual "wind" so to speak, was still blowing either way.

But with all that, I can say that:

• God was my comfort when I was the outcast.
• God gave me faith when I could not reliably generate any positive faith for myself.
• God gave me opportunities at times when I needed them and didn't necessarily deserve them.

In the lives of my friends, he has:

• Turned a convict into someone who looks out for others.
• Helped friends really quit smoking, cold turkey, like flipping a light switch.
• Made the neighbor of one friend who had been wheelchair bound stand and walk, and it wasn't temporary.

There are others at my church who have reported other things - moved them to make phone calls that averted suicides, other healings.

Yes, there were other times in my life and the lives of others when God didn't exert this type of blessing in our lives, but that doesn't take away from what he has done for us. The existence of miracles doesn't demand that they happen regularly. There were stretches in the Bible where miracles hadn't happened for many, possibly hundreds of years.

 

[The Narrow Way]

My first and biggest question was, I do not see or feel God around. I do not see any difference in life of believer or unbeliever. Please give me example of how God works in your life, or how prayer works for you. All they tell me for now is that they just believe normal happening as work of God. I was disappointed, because I was waiting for true story of magical or miraculous.

I have many more questions, sorry if I’m writing in confusing way.

I appreciate your post very much, James. You have good questions, and good observations. It is sad, but true, that in todays world, there is very little difference between how Christians live their lives and how those in the world live their lives. It shouldn't be that way. There should be a NIGHT & DAY difference. The darker the world gets, the brighter the Christians should shine. Sadly, many Christians have bought into the FALSE GOSPEL that "all you have to do is BELIEVE" and nothing else matters. They eat like the world, they dress like the world, they attend the same entertainments as the world, they talk like the world....and in the end, they will be LOST, like the world.

The Bible says, James, "But the gate is small and the road is narrow that lead to life. Only a few people find it." Matthew 7:14.

So, we shouldn't be surprised that we don't see many who are truly on the NARROW PATH to Heaven.

I hope and pray that you won't be discouraged by the fact that those on the RIGHT SIDE are rarely in the MAJORITY. How many, James, went into the Ark and survived the Flood? Only 8. How many escaped the doom of Sodom & Gomorrah? Only 3.

For me, I love Jesus and the Bible. I have no idea if I will end up being a martyr for Him, or if I will see Him come in the clouds of glory...or if I'll die before He comes and rise to meet Him in the air, but I believe He's coming back soon, and that things are going to get much worse in this world than they now are. I for one, would not be able to cope with all that is happening in the world if it were not for my belief and trust in Jesus, knowing that He is in control and that nothing happens that He doesn't allow.

 

[honestal]

Hi James, nice to meet you (I'm Tammy's husband),

I'm sure I don't have all the answers, but I think I have at least two--that can be an aid to you in your search.

#1--Jeremiah tells us: "Ye shall seek me, and find me, WHEN YE SHALL SEARCH FROM ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART." {Jeremiah 29:13}

I think that's one of the most important verses in all the Bible.

Going along with that, Jesus said: "ANYONE WHO CHOOSE TO DO WHAT GOD WANTS HIM TO DO will find out whether my teaching comes from God or from me." {John 7:17 NIrV}

Whatever in the Bible you see to be true and right--do it.
As you walk in the light things will grow clearer.

As for personal experience: All I'll say now is that true Bible religion has made me a MUCH better man--for which I am eternally grateful, and wouldn't trade for anything in the world.

God bless you, we'll be praying for you, and hopefully this will be the beginning of a long and profitable friendship.

 

[Andrewn]

I’ve read through the whole Bible a few times, consulting dictionaries, encyclopedias, commentaries.

It sounds like you've given the Bible a good shot and have read the NT Gospels and Epistles, and the OT Writings. (The 3 sections I recommended.)

I don’t see how it can substantiate the claims that are made about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by the claims made about it. I know of only one claim, which is that it is divinely inspired.

Since you seem to be quite intelligent and studious, perhaps you should read spiritual books. Have you tried books by CS Lewis and Kallistos Ware for example? Did you read other authors?

Is God a neutral energy-like force or a supernatural all-powerful human-like person that is capable of interaction with me? Because I never in any way detect His presence, no matter how much I try achieving that, including calling to Him, speaking to Him, praying even fasting. There is absolute silence in responce. Life simply goes on as if there is no God, no communication, no influence on any events in my life.

God is neither a neutral energy-like force nor a human-like person. But He does have personality so we can say that God is love. That He desires friendship with people.

 

[James_Lai]

• Part of that could be a product of the assembly that you attend. There are unfortunately, some that lean more heavily on their biases than is warranted.
• It can also be a consequence of the topics a sermon mentions being too large and complex for one sermon.

The ultimate understanding of God is spiritual. That is how I know God, but I don't know if I can explain the spiritual to you and do it justice. The best illustration I can provide is similar to the one Jesus gave in John 3:8:

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

God moves things kind of like that. He can also do things like part the Red Sea, but he's not restricted to doing things on that scale, in that way. Whether he moves in big events like that or in smaller, personal ways, the "wind" that moves them is his Spirit at work.

Now, another item I ought to mention which is a consequence of this - there's a difference between divine providence and divine miracles. Miracles cannot be explained by science (i.e. Jesus Christ bodily rising from the dead on the third day after being crucified and speared). Providence is when events that could potentially be explained by science are initiated by God, for his purposes (i.e. people have tried to explain the plague of darkness in Exodus 9:21-23 as volcanic ash from a massive eruption; God could very well have caused a volcano to erupt and a wind to blow, and if he did it that way, that would be providence). It's possible for more modern understandings of science to cause us to understand more events as providence rather than miracles, but that's OK because ultimately, God made them happen for his reasons. The spiritual "wind" so to speak, was still blowing either way.

But with all that, I can say that:

• God was my comfort when I was the outcast.
• God gave me faith when I could not reliably generate any positive faith for myself.
• God gave me opportunities at times when I needed them and didn't necessarily deserve them.

In the lives of my friends, he has:

• Turned a convict into someone who looks out for others.
• Helped friends really quit smoking, cold turkey, like flipping a light switch.
• Made the neighbor of one friend who had been wheelchair bound stand and walk, and it wasn't temporary.

There are others at my church who have reported other things - moved them to make phone calls that averted suicides, other healings.

Yes, there were other times in my life and the lives of others when God didn't exert this type of blessing in our lives, but that doesn't take away from what he has done for us. The existence of miracles doesn't demand that they happen regularly. There were stretches in the Bible where miracles hadn't happened for many, possibly hundreds of years.

Thank you. Very interesting.

I don’t attend a church, but I’ve been to different kinds of churches in several countries and in some of them, in different cities.

I understand spiritual as something we can’t detect, but can see the effects of. Like magnetic field or black hole.

Your examples are great. It would be interesting to see one of them in greater detail, that would show more convincingly or conclusively that it is a spiritual agent in work, and not psychological or any other known physical laws.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thank you. Very interesting.

I don’t attend a church, but I’ve been to different kinds of churches in several countries and in some of them, in different cities.

I understand spiritual as something we can’t detect, but can see the effects of. Like magnetic field or black hole.

Your examples are great. It would be interesting to see one of them in greater detail, that would show more convincingly or conclusively that it is a spiritual agent in work, and not psychological or any other known physical laws.

To me, the fact of very existence is such a thing, though any atheist would disagree, claiming confirmation bias on the part of the believer, and claiming the logical fact that the fact we can't presently prove other possibilities doesn't mean there aren't any. To my mind, the cosmological argument (not the various cosmological 'proofs') is foolproof, unless someone can demonstrate that cause and effect is not pervasive, all the way down to a necessary uncaused first cause.

 

[James_Lai]

I appreciate your post very much, James. You have good questions, and good observations. It is sad, but true, that in todays world, there is very little difference between how Christians live their lives and how those in the world live their lives. It shouldn't be that way. There should be a NIGHT & DAY difference. The darker the world gets, the brighter the Christians should shine. Sadly, many Christians have bought into the FALSE GOSPEL that "all you have to do is BELIEVE" and nothing else matters. They eat like the world, they dress like the world, they attend the same entertainments as the world, they talk like the world....and in the end, they will be LOST, like the world.

The Bible says, James, "But the gate is small and the road is narrow that lead to life. Only a few people find it." Matthew 7:14.

So, we shouldn't be surprised that we don't see many who are truly on the NARROW PATH to Heaven.

I hope and pray that you won't be discouraged by the fact that those on the RIGHT SIDE are rarely in the MAJORITY. How many, James, went into the Ark and survived the Flood? Only 8. How many escaped the doom of Sodom & Gomorrah? Only 3.

For me, I love Jesus and the Bible. I have no idea if I will end up being a martyr for Him, or if I will see Him come in the clouds of glory...or if I'll die before He comes and rise to meet Him in the air, but I believe He's coming back soon, and that things are going to get much worse in this world than they now are. I for one, would not be able to cope with all that is happening in the world if it were not for my belief and trust in Jesus, knowing that He is in control and that nothing happens that He doesn't allow.

Thank you. I’m grateful you see my strive and attempt to find truth..

You talk about moral behaviour, if I understand you correctly. Or being sincere and not hypocritical following of one’s religion. I understand this aspect, and agree, that there exist a disconnect in all religions about that.

What I was talking about was more about claims made about religion vs. reality. In that sense, to me I see zero evidence of a God force active in the lives of believers. There is linguistic difference, but not practical. Both in believer and unbeliever I only see physical laws working, and no God operating at least in any way that would be convincing and detectable

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thank you. I’m grateful you see my strive and attempt to find truth..

You talk about moral behaviour, if I understand you correctly. Or being sincere and not hypocritical following of one’s religion. I understand this aspect, and agree, that there exist a disconnect in all religions about that.

What I was talking about was more about claims made about religion and people of faith and reality. In that sense, to me I see zero evidence of a God force active in the lives of believers. There is linguistic difference, but nit practical. Both in believer and unbeliever I only see physical laws working, and no God operating at least in any way that would be convincing and detectable

Sadly, or maybe disappointingly, (but it is for good), God doesn't normally work that way, and at present, he doesn't seem to want to be proven to society-in-general any more than he currently proves himself to them. T To be convinced of the fact of his existence, for example, is not faith. It is only the winning of an argument, useful in its place, of course, but not the cause of faith.

 

[James_Lai]

It sounds like you've given the Bible a good shot and have read the NT Gospels and Epistles, and the OT Writings. (The 3 sections I recommended.)


I'm not sure what you mean by the claims made about it. I know of only one claim, which is that it is divinely inspired.

Since you seem to be quite intelligent and studious, perhaps you should read spiritual books. Have you tried books by CS Lewis and Kallistos Ware for example? Did you read other authors?


God is neither a neutral energy-like force nor a human-like person. But He does have personality so we can say that God is love. That He desires friendship with people.

Thank you. Claims about the Bible, not only about its source, also that it’s truth, and complete truth, inerrant, perfectly explains itself, has a story about Jesus from Genesis to Revelation, has answer to any question, same unchanging doctrines throughout its pages, that all other religious writings are not inspired or are mistaken etc. I know not all churches believe everything of the the above, but whatever the understanding is.

My impression as of today, and I do not want in any way to reduce the depth, value and complexity of the Bible, is that I do not see how the Bible really can be what Christians say it is…

Why I asked what is God or who is God, is because it seems in reality if He exists then He’s more like an energy, not a person. I don’t hear His voice and no matter how long or how much I try and initiate communication with Him at my end, it always remains one way transmit only, not a bi-directional duplex communication… Nothing at my receive end… And not for the lack of trying either

 

[The Narrow Way]

Thank you. I’m grateful you see my strive and attempt to find truth..

You talk about moral behaviour, if I understand you correctly. Or being sincere and not hypocritical following of one’s religion. I understand this aspect, and agree, that there exist a disconnect in all religions about that.

What I was talking about was more about claims made about religion and people of faith and reality. In that sense, to me I see zero evidence of a God force active in the lives of believers. There is linguistic difference, but nit practical. Both in believer and unbeliever I only see physical laws working, and no God operating at least in any way that would be convincing and detectable

Is it because you don't see MIRACLES like the Bible talks about in the days of Jesus, James?

 

[James_Lai]

Is it because you don't see MIRACLES like the Bible talks about in the days of Jesus, James?

Yes. Though there are claims miracles sometimes occur, but when closely examined, they don’t seem to be miracles. Also prayer, which is also a kind of miracle to me. Or God’s voice speaking to a person. Etc. Anything that would show that God is a reality.