Many Mansions

Jamdoc · Oct 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
You said, I quote:
“But I've been thinking about it, and I realize, I don't even know if there's really a point to a "mansion" in heaven.”

By saying that there is no point in having a mansion seems like doubting God's Word to me. God is all wise and He knows better than us. It's obvious that a mansion or home provides privacy from others because that is what homes do today. For did not Jesus say that we are to close our door and pray? Obviously God still wants us to have intimate prayer and worship time with Him alone, too.

Well, me not understanding the purpose of a mansion doesn't mean I doubt the mansions exist. It's just me not understanding a purpose for them. If I didn't believe they would be there I would just claim that those scriptures were figurative and not be asking about a purpose for the mansions. I believe I'll have a home, it might not be a palace sized but.. a home.. I just don't consider it something I'm especially looking forward to like some people use that as something to look forward to in heaven is having a mansion, and I'm just like "I guess? dunno what I'd do with it though".
But like I said previously.. seems weird that you'd need to pray when you can just see God face to face and talk to Him and worship Him in person. Isn't that the big thing to look forward to rather than a mansion? To see God and no longer have this.. intangible, invisible, inaudible (you might hear the spirit "speak" to you but it's always more of an impression or feeling than audible speech, we're not Moses or Elijah that hear audible voices outside of our own body) telecommunication with God.. but a face to face 2 way conversation with the Lord?

What if's on sexual immorality is never a possiblity in being a what if scenario because God calls it an abomination. Thus, God never intended for things to ever to exist that way under other circumstances or scenarios. So to imagine such a scenario is imagining something that would never be true. In my opinion: To even suggest such a possibility means one is open to the idea that it could not be bad (When it is an abomination in God's sight).

As for intimacy: Well, there is a level of intimacy that does not involve intimate relations (becoming one flesh) between a man and woman in marriage. There is also a mental intimacy between friends of the same gender and most importantly God or our Lord. God knows all things, and to share in His love, peace, joy, and other fruits as we walk with Him and seek more of Him is to draw in closer intimacy with God. I believe this drawing closer to God will be behind closed doors in mansions. A quite time between just between you and God.

No, it's not that. what it is, is explaining that there's more than just God calling it an abomination that would prevent you from doing it that affects your decision making. In fact in our sinful nature, before being saved, we don't exactly make God calling something an abomination be a reason why we don't sin and unless there's other reasons not to do something we just go ahead and do it because we either don't know of God or don't believe in God For people who don't believe there's still reasons not to be sexually promiscuous, disease, unwanted pregnancy, and even if people are promiscuous to a degree they still don't just accept ANYONE. Ultimately nobody wants to have sex or be intimate with everyone they meet, there's always a reason they'd be selective about who they let be close to them. Now even when we believe in God, and know that He says that thing is an abomination, we still hold those other secular reasons for not doing something as reasons not to do it as well. Even before a person's saved they most likely won't murder because of the legal consequences for it, and once being saved that legal consequence is still there on top of not wanting to sin against God.

Sorry. I read your words wrong on marriage. I am glad you are not criticizing marriage in any way.

Anyways, there are two resurrections. An angelic body type resurrection, and a flesh and blood resurrection. So you are confusing the resurrection to Heaven with the resurrection on the New Earth. Again, marriage is taken away for a TEMPORARY time in Heaven. New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven and lands on the New Earth. Believers who were in Heaven will receive new resurrected flesh and blood bodies (Where they can marry). In Heaven, they were like as the angels and thus they cannot marry (because they are like angels in form). But as I said, this is temporary.

Please see the previous passage again that I showed to you involving Jesus talking about the two different resurrections.

Also, check out my extensive End Times Chronology here:

Pre-Trib Only - My New End Times Chronology

Well, I still have my doubts on what you said because if it was 2 different resurrections and marriage was possible in the second, then Jesus would still need to answer the sadducees' question on who's wife the woman would be. But His answer was simply "nobody's because they won't be married"

ViaCrucis · Oct 7, 2020

Jamdoc said:
John 14:2

Now I realize in other translations they translate it as "many rooms" or "many abodes" but typically when people think of heaven the "many mansions" illustration gets used, and it is even used as "something to look forward to" in heaven/new earth. But to me, it has never really mattered, desiring material wealth was something I grew out of a long time ago. But I've been thinking about it, and I realize, I don't even know if there's really a point to a "mansion" in heaven. We won't need sleep, so who needs a bedroom, as far as we know we're going to be eating fruit off the tree of life, so won't really need a kitchen... everyone's going to be single and not have any children, so you wouldn't need any extra rooms for extra people.. just a bunch of bachelor pads... if you'd even need one of those for any purpose as you wouldn't need shelter from the elements.. so what would be the point? Even in Isaiah there's imagery of people building houses... for what?

The point, of course, isn't that there are literal mansions, or buildings, or whatnot; the point is that we have a place with Christ, we will be where the Lord is, we will dwell with God forever. That is the comfort Jesus brings with these words to His disciples--and thus also to us. That in Him we have a place with God, our home is found in the Lord, both in this life and the life that is to come.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Oct 7, 2020

Charlie24 said:
What makes you think there will be "so many of us there?"

Narrow is the way to life and few there be that find it.

"For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.'" - Romans 10:11

-CryptoLutheran

Jamdoc · Oct 7, 2020

GirdYourLoins said:
Youd better get praying and ask for a revelation of what heaven will be like. But ti comes with a warning, it might be a bad experience that leads you to cry out to God for it, it was with me. I didnt know at the time but I have an allergy that causes me to get depression among other things. I was suffering reallly badly so kept praying and asking God to show me what heaven would be like so I know what I have got to look forward to.

Its not so much singing as being in the overwhelming holy presence of God and His and not being able but to help yourself but to cry out in praise and worship. Think of the most overwhelmed you have ever been with love and/or wth the sense of the presence of God. That pales into insignificance with what I experienced, just a fleeting moment of what it will feel like in heaven and I know it was very veiled and weakened, yet I could not help but cry out "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come". It just came out and then the moment passed.

See I never like this kind of explanation because it makes God sound like a drug. Rather than just being happy because of doing something you enjoy, you're forced into euphoria by an outside source and it doesn't matter what you're actually doing even if you're in a place you hate just staring at a wall you're feeling euphoria because of the state of intoxication.
It may not have been your intent to convey that to me but that's what gets conveyed to me is that "even though you don't like singing you'll do it against your will because you'll be too high to do anything else"
I'm not looking for a high I'm looking for a life.
To be perfectly honest, what you described, and what other people describe does not sound too dissimilar to the rave drug ecstasy, or stronger psychedelics like LSD (yes I sinned with drug abuse in my youth but I repented of it many years ago), or more accurately perhaps, combining the two together. I won't get into the effects too graphically even though I really could and you'd probably see why I compare the state of your revelation to the state of my intoxication, but to put it simply, yes it's a state of bliss, but what do you do with that much bliss? On a high enough dose you're so overwhelmed by how good you feel that you can't do anything but sit there staring at a wall unable to even think about anything but how good you feel.
I'm not looking for a state where I'm so overwhelmed that I can't do anything but praise and sing even though I hate singing. I don't want a high, I've had that and you know the real reason I quit those things? Shamefully it was not because I was repenting of sin, but rather, I got bored of those states. Any time I used them it was fun at first but within even an hour or two (out of about 8-12 hours of intoxication) I was already feeling bored of it. So I don't touch them, I repented of them, but even before that, I got bored of them and didn't want them anymore.
I really honestly think I can get bored of doing any one thing for too long, even being in euphoria.
Now that I've got MS, I spend enough time unable to do much, I don't look forward to any state of being where all I can do is more sitting around. I look forward most to being able to go places and do things actively again. To be told I'll spend eternity falling on my face and singing? Misery.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well, I still have my doubts on what you said because if it was 2 different resurrections and marriage was possible in the second, then Jesus would still need to answer the sadducees' question on who's wife the woman would be. But His answer was simply "nobody's because they won't be married"

Again, Jesus alluded to the two different resurrections when He spoke to the Sadducees.

29 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” (Matthew 22:29-32).

The words in red above is in reference to the resurrection of receiving a spiritual body like that of angels (Whereby there is no marriage). The words in blue above is in reference to the flesh and blood body resurrection that takes place in two phases (i.e. One in the Millennium, and the other for the New Earth after the Millennium and the Judgment). Seeing we will be in a different location like on Earth, and we will have flesh and blood bodies again, logic dictates that we could very well marry and have families there.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well, me not understanding the purpose of a mansion doesn't mean I doubt the mansions exist. It's just me not understanding a purpose for them. If I didn't believe they would be there I would just claim that those scriptures were figurative and not be asking about a purpose for the mansions. I believe I'll have a home, it might not be a palace sized but.. a home.. I just don't consider it something I'm especially looking forward to like some people use that as something to look forward to in heaven is having a mansion, and I'm just like "I guess? dunno what I'd do with it though".
But like I said previously.. seems weird that you'd need to pray when you can just see God face to face and talk to Him and worship Him in person. Isn't that the big thing to look forward to rather than a mansion? To see God and no longer have this.. intangible, invisible, inaudible (you might hear the spirit "speak" to you but it's always more of an impression or feeling than audible speech, we're not Moses or Elijah that hear audible voices outside of our own body) telecommunication with God.. but a face to face 2 way conversation with the Lord?

Nobody is negating the fact of how amazing it will be to face God in person. I also do not think anyone who follows the Lord is looking to just get a mansion out of the deal, either. That is just the icing on the cake. Again, it sounds like you are criticizing the idea of a mansion. You have to be open to the possibility that you could be wrong and God does want to reward us with something we think is overabundant. Why? It is written: “....he that cometh to God must believe... that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6).

You said:
No, it's not that. what it is, is explaining that there's more than just God calling it an abomination that would prevent you from doing it that affects your decision making. In fact in our sinful nature, before being saved, we don't exactly make God calling something an abomination be a reason why we don't sin and unless there's other reasons not to do something we just go ahead and do it because we either don't know of God or don't believe in God For people who don't believe there's still reasons not to be sexually promiscuous, disease, unwanted pregnancy, and even if people are promiscuous to a degree they still don't just accept ANYONE. Ultimately nobody wants to have sex or be intimate with everyone they meet, there's always a reason they'd be selective about who they let be close to them. Now even when we believe in God, and know that He says that thing is an abomination, we still hold those other secular reasons for not doing something as reasons not to do it as well. Even before a person's saved they most likely won't murder because of the legal consequences for it, and once being saved that legal consequence is still there on top of not wanting to sin against God.

There is a dark spirit behind those who do certain abominations. They are blinded to do such dark things. Some people it is not a privacy issue. If that was the case, then there would be nobody in the porn industry. The devil is at work trying to blind men and women of this world, lest the glorious light of the gospel should shine unto them, and they seek to fight the good fight of faith.

Jamdoc · Oct 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, Jesus alluded to the two different resurrections when He spoke to the Sadducees.

29 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” (Matthew 22:29-32).

The words in red above is in reference to the resurrection of receiving a spiritual body like that of angels (Whereby there is no marriage). The words in blue above is in reference to the flesh and blood body resurrection that takes place in two phases (i.e. One in the Millennium, and the other for the New Earth after the Millennium and the Judgment). Seeing we will be in a different location like on Earth, and we will have flesh and blood bodies again, logic dictates that we could very well marry and have families there.

Okay so.. then the sadducees' question would stand. Who's wife would that woman be on the new earth?

Jamdoc · Oct 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Nobody is negating the fact of how amazing it will be to face God in person. I also do not think anyone who follows the Lord is looking to just get a mansion out of the deal, either. That is just the icing on the cake. Again, it sounds like you are criticizing the idea of a mansion. You have to be open to the possibility that you could be wrong and God does want to reward us with something we think is overabundant. Why? It is written: “....he that cometh to God must believe... that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6).

I'm not criticizing it I just don't understand the purpose. If He wants to give me a nice house, I'll take it thankfully I just don't understand from my current perspective what I'd really use it for.

There is a dark spirit behind those who do certain abominations. They are blinded to do such dark things. Some people it is not a privacy issue. If that was the case, then there would be nobody in the porn industry. The devil is at work trying to blind men and women of this world, lest the glorious light of the gospel should shine unto them, and they seek to fight the good fight of faith.

Well, sure, for some people, that have been bewitched into hookup culture and pornography and viewing sex as just a cheap thrill, maybe they won't consider the level of trust and intimacy involved and a lot of those people end up hurt as a result, either physically, or through disease, emotionally and absolutely spiritually. I just imagine it has to be so empty. Nobody who's involved in that culture is truly happy. It's all empty to them. Pornographic actors get bored of it, and some have... "performance" issues after they do it a long time and drug abuse is common in that culture, it absolutely destroys lives.
But I don't think the majority of people are that promiscuous, they still sin by doing it out of wedlock, because they don't fear God, but they still have a lot of limitations as to who they engage in that activity, so there is a privacy and trust issue there, even among non believers.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Okay so.. then the sadducees' question would stand. Who's wife would that woman be on the new earth?

It's called misdirection. Jesus answered their question directly in relation to Heaven, but He gave an indirect and evasive answer in regards to the New Earth. Jesus most likely did not answer their question directly in regards to the New Earth because they probably could not handle the truth, and or they would mock such a precious truth.

But to answer the question:
Well, Romans 7:1-2 says that when a husband dies, a woman is loosed from the Law of her husband and she is free to remarry because the marriage contract is broken by death.

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.” (Romans 7:1-2).

You know, the whole “until death do us part” saying in marriages?
So believers will have a new beginning on the New Earth in who they can marry (if that is something God will allow for). Logically speaking, it makes sense that he would restore families and the growth of them because that was his original intent on our Earth. God wanted men to be fruitful and to multiply. Perhaps, that is what the mansion is for. To fill the home with a large family who worships God. If you were an Israelite, you would know the importance of family and how that played a part in God's plans for them as a nation.

Side Note:

Jesus used misdirection before at another point when He told the Pharisees that they were gods. Jesus wanted to protect His claim that He was God but yet on the other hand, He wanted to protect His mission in going to the cross, too. So He quoted Scripture to them about how they were gods (kings, and not divine beings).

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I'm not criticizing it I just don't understand the purpose. If He wants to give me a nice house, I'll take it thankfully I just don't understand from my current perspective what I'd really use it for.

How did the Canaanite woman answer Jesus in reply to his parable?
She said even the dogs eat the crumbs from the master's table (See: Matthew 15:21-28). See, she gave an extended add on parable or real world example. So what did Jesus do? Did He say, “Sorry Canaanite woman, you cannot make parables or real world examples.” “Only I can do that.” But that is not what Jesus said in reply. Jesus actually commended her and said how great her faith was.

What is my point?
We can make parables or real world examples, too (Just like the Canaanite woman did).
She made a real world example based on a spiritual truth.
Meaning, this earth and the things that happen here are sometimes paralleled with the things in Heaven and or the New Earth. There is an earthly temple, and a Heavenly one. There is an earthly priesthood, and a Heavenly one, etc.

So if we think about a home and what it does for us today in our real world, then chances are that is what the purpose will be for them in the New Earth (after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven and believers receive a new flesh and blood body by the power and resurrection of Christ).

What do homes offer us today?
Privacy, and a place for our family to dwell.
You can say protection from the outside elements.
Is this applicable in the New Earth that has perfect weather?
Well, Jesus will be the light thereof and there will be no night or sun.
Seeing Jesus is the light source, the mansions could possibly offer protection from the extreme light and the windows would allow the house to have a shaded natural light to fill the home (like our home during the day). Granted, I am not saying this to be biblical fact. We don't know for sure. Maybe the spirit portion of Christ will light everything in the New Earth. But if I were to guess, I believe it will be just the human portion of Jesus that will give off intense light like a mini sun (on the New Earth).

You said:
Well, sure, for some people, that have been bewitched into hookup culture and pornography and viewing sex as just a cheap thrill, maybe they won't consider the level of trust and intimacy involved and a lot of those people end up hurt as a result, either physically, or through disease, emotionally and absolutely spiritually. I just imagine it has to be so empty. Nobody who's involved in that culture is truly happy. It's all empty to them. Pornographic actors get bored of it, and some have... "performance" issues after they do it a long time and drug abuse is common in that culture, it absolutely destroys lives.
But I don't think the majority of people are that promiscuous, they still sin by doing it out of wedlock, because they don't fear God, but they still have a lot of limitations as to who they engage in that activity, so there is a privacy and trust issue there, even among non believers.

My point is that there is not a one size fit all type individual in this sinful world. Men and women have gotten away from God so far that they do things that are highly destructive to their lives. Your point is that folks say there will be no privacy or intimacy in the New Earth. The only thing we can go on is the purpose of what homes offer us today (Which is privacy or intimacy with God and our family). I believe God cherishes the quiet times when we thank Him and adore Him private as well as the times we all shout for joy. I believe it is a good earthly truth that will continue on in the New Earth for eternity. Then again, we will not know for sure until that beautiful day. For now, we look through a glass darkly.

Jamdoc · Oct 8, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
It's called misdirection. Jesus answered their question directly in relation to Heaven, but He gave an indirect and evasive answer in regards to the New Earth. Jesus most likely did not answer their question directly in regards to the New Earth because they probably could not handle the truth, and or they would mock such a precious truth.

But to answer the question:
Well, Romans 7:1-2 says that when a husband dies, a woman is loosed from the Law of her husband and she is free to remarry because the marriage contract is broken by death.

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.” (Romans 7:1-2).

You know, the whole “until death do us part” saying in marriages?
So believers will have a new beginning on the New Earth in who they can marry (if that is something God will allow for). Logically speaking, it makes sense that he would restore families and the growth of them because that was his original intent on our Earth. God wanted men to be fruitful and to multiply. Perhaps, that is what the mansion is for. To fill the home with a large family who worships God. If you were an Israelite, you would know the importance of family and how that played a part in God's plans for them as a nation.

Side Note:

Jesus used misdirection before at another point when He told the Pharisees that they were gods. Jesus wanted to protect His claim that He was God but yet on the other hand, He wanted to protect His mission in going to the cross, too. So He quoted Scripture to them about how they were gods (kings, and not divine beings).

Maybe, I couldn't put stock in that theory even though it's a hopeful theory and makes sense, but since scripture doesn't directly say this I can't put faith into it. I suppose if you're right then it'd be a pleasant surprise to me, completely tossing out one of my worst struggled over subjects in Christianity, and I would love God more for it than if He just does away with it entirely as scripture seems to suggest.

Jamdoc · Oct 8, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
How did the Canaanite woman answer Jesus in reply to his parable?
She said even the dogs eat the crumbs from the master's table (See: Matthew 15:21-28). See, she gave an extended add on parable or real world example. So what did Jesus do? Did He say, “Sorry Canaanite woman, you cannot make parables or real world examples.” “Only I can do that.” But that is not what Jesus said in reply. Jesus actually commended her and said how great her faith was.

What is my point?
We can make parables or real world examples, too (Just like the Canaanite woman did).
She made a real world example based on a spiritual truth.
Meaning, this earth and the things that happen here are sometimes paralleled with the things in Heaven and or the New Earth. There is an earthly temple, and a Heavenly one. There is an earthly priesthood, and a Heavenly one, etc.

So if we think about a home and what it does for us today in our real world, then chances are that is what the purpose will be for them in the New Earth (after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven and believers receive a new flesh and blood body by the power and resurrection of Christ).

What do homes offer us today?
Privacy, and a place for our family to dwell.
You can say protection from the outside elements.
Is this applicable in the New Earth that has perfect weather?
Well, Jesus will be the light thereof and there will be no night or sun.
Seeing Jesus is the light source, the mansions could possibly offer protection from the extreme light and the windows would allow the house to have a shaded natural light to fill the home (like our home during the day). Granted, I am not saying this to be biblical fact. We don't know for sure. Maybe the spirit portion of Christ will light everything in the New Earth. But if I were to guess, I believe it will be just the human portion of Jesus that will give off intense light like a mini sun (on the New Earth).

My point is that there is not a one size fit all type individual in this sinful world. Men and women have gotten away from God so far that they do things that are highly destructive to their lives. Your point is that folks say there will be no privacy or intimacy in the New Earth. The only thing we can go on is the purpose of what homes offer us today (Which is privacy or intimacy with God and our family). I believe God cherishes the quiet times when we thank Him and adore Him private as well as the times we all shout for joy. I believe it is a good earthly truth that will continue on in the New Earth for eternity. Then again, we will not know for sure until that beautiful day. For now, we look through a glass darkly.

I think that being lit by the spirit is more likely, as if it's the Son who exists in a physical body, then well, places on the other side of the earth would be in darkness. But if it's the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in all of us, then God lights everywhere, anywhere you will be, God would radiate light around you.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I think that being lit by the spirit is more likely, as if it's the Son who exists in a physical body, then well, places on the other side of the earth would be in darkness. But if it's the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in all of us, then God lights everywhere, anywhere you will be, God would radiate light around you.

I am not discounting that possibility. But Jesus is said to be the light and there is no temple because He will be the temple thereof.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Maybe, I couldn't put stock in that theory even though it's a hopeful theory and makes sense, but since scripture doesn't directly say this I can't put faith into it. I suppose if you're right then it'd be a pleasant surprise to me, completely tossing out one of my worst struggled over subjects in Christianity, and I would love God more for it than if He just does away with it entirely as scripture seems to suggest.

Does away with what entirely? The mansions or marriage?
If you are speaking of marriage: Well, marriage does not take place in Heaven, but New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven on the New Earth. New place, means that we will also be different to fit in being on the Earth. Meaning, there will be a flesh and blood resurrection for the New Earth for those who were in Heaven. Flesh and blood suggests that marriage could take place. For remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. This would be the kingdom of Heaven and not the New Earth.

Jamdoc · Oct 9, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Does away with what entirely? The mansions or marriage?
If you are speaking of marriage: Well, marriage does not take place in Heaven, but New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven on the New Earth. New place, means that we will also be different to fit in being on the Earth. Meaning, there will be a flesh and blood resurrection for the New Earth for those who were in Heaven. Flesh and blood suggests that marriage could take place. For remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. This would be the kingdom of Heaven and not the New Earth.

Well scripture doesn't say that, the only thing scripture has said directly is that marriage doesn't exist in the resurrection. You're separating into 2 different resurrections but don't really have scripture to support the idea of marriage on the new earth, it is speculation on your part. Hopeful speculation, but speculation none the less.

On the subject of light, you're correct that in the city of New Jerusalem it's Jesus that is the source of light specifically. But outside of the city that's not specified so either there is still night and a sun and moon and stars outside of the city, not to mention stars illuminating other planets.. or outside of the city if Revelation 22:5 still applies then that light is just said to be given by God so it could be God the Holy Spirit that is the source outside of the city. Hard to say for sure since most of chapter 21 and 22 of Revelation deal specifically with the city.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 9, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well scripture doesn't say that, the only thing scripture has said directly is that marriage doesn't exist in the resurrection. You're separating into 2 different resurrections but don't really have scripture to support the idea of marriage on the new earth, it is speculation on your part. Hopeful speculation, but speculation none the less.

Again, Jesus alluded to the two different resurrections when He spoke to the Sadducees.
See the bolded words.

29 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” (Matthew 22:29-32).

In other words, Jesus says:

#1. “for in the resurrection”
#2. “But as touching the resurrection of the dead.”

The words in red do not sound like the same words in blue.

For example: It would be like me saying, for in basketball, one must practice a lot to be good.
But as touching on basketball played for in a non competition atmosphere like with the Harlem globetrotters, one needs to practice a lot more to be as good as them.

Obviously I am referring to two different kinds of basketball here.
Similar wording is used in the passage to distinguish between the two different resurrections. Folks just read through this passage too fast and they miss it.

You said:
On the subject of light, you're correct that in the city of New Jerusalem it's Jesus that is the source of light specifically. But outside of the city that's not specified so either there is still night and a sun and moon and stars outside of the city, not to mention stars illuminating other planets.. or outside of the city if Revelation 22:5 still applies then that light is just said to be given by God so it could be God the Holy Spirit that is the source outside of the city. Hard to say for sure since most of chapter 21 and 22 of Revelation deal specifically with the city.

We look through a glass darkly.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 9, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well scripture doesn't say that, the only thing scripture has said directly is that marriage doesn't exist in the resurrection. You're separating into 2 different resurrections but don't really have scripture to support the idea of marriage on the new earth, it is speculation on your part. Hopeful speculation, but speculation none the less.

On the subject of light, you're correct that in the city of New Jerusalem it's Jesus that is the source of light specifically. But outside of the city that's not specified so either there is still night and a sun and moon and stars outside of the city, not to mention stars illuminating other planets.. or outside of the city if Revelation 22:5 still applies then that light is just said to be given by God so it could be God the Holy Spirit that is the source outside of the city. Hard to say for sure since most of chapter 21 and 22 of Revelation deal specifically with the city.

As for marriage on the New Earth: If God's original plan on the 1st Earth was to be fruitful and to multiply, then logic dictates that He would do the same on the New Earth. But again, this is just a theory and not biblical fact. But it does appear to align with God's original plan back in the garden.

Jamdoc · Oct 9, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
As for marriage on the New Earth: If God's original plan on the 1st Earth was to be fruitful and to multiply, then logic dictates that He would do the same on the New Earth. But again, this is just a theory and not biblical fact. But it does appear to align with God's original plan back in the garden.

Like I said, hopeful speculation, logical speculation, but still speculation.
I really wish someone had asked Jesus further question on that subject but they were so stunned at something like that that was just unthinkable that they just dropped it.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 9, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Like I said, hopeful speculation, logical speculation, but still speculation.
I really wish someone had asked Jesus further question on that subject but they were so stunned at something like that that was just unthinkable that they just dropped it.

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. When we think about the living, or life, we think about how life grows and or multiplies. But again, it is true that I am speculating. But the two resurrections is not speculation, though. That truth is given to us in Scripture.

GirdYourLoins · Oct 10, 2020

Jamdoc said:
See I never like this kind of explanation because it makes God sound like a drug. Rather than just being happy because of doing something you enjoy, you're forced into euphoria by an outside source and it doesn't matter what you're actually doing even if you're in a place you hate just staring at a wall you're feeling euphoria because of the state of intoxication.
It may not have been your intent to convey that to me but that's what gets conveyed to me is that "even though you don't like singing you'll do it against your will because you'll be too high to do anything else"
I'm not looking for a high I'm looking for a life.
To be perfectly honest, what you described, and what other people describe does not sound too dissimilar to the rave drug ecstasy, or stronger psychedelics like LSD (yes I sinned with drug abuse in my youth but I repented of it many years ago), or more accurately perhaps, combining the two together. I won't get into the effects too graphically even though I really could and you'd probably see why I compare the state of your revelation to the state of my intoxication, but to put it simply, yes it's a state of bliss, but what do you do with that much bliss? On a high enough dose you're so overwhelmed by how good you feel that you can't do anything but sit there staring at a wall unable to even think about anything but how good you feel.
I'm not looking for a state where I'm so overwhelmed that I can't do anything but praise and sing even though I hate singing. I don't want a high, I've had that and you know the real reason I quit those things? Shamefully it was not because I was repenting of sin, but rather, I got bored of those states. Any time I used them it was fun at first but within even an hour or two (out of about 8-12 hours of intoxication) I was already feeling bored of it. So I don't touch them, I repented of them, but even before that, I got bored of them and didn't want them anymore.
I really honestly think I can get bored of doing any one thing for too long, even being in euphoria.
Now that I've got MS, I spend enough time unable to do much, I don't look forward to any state of being where all I can do is more sitting around. I look forward most to being able to go places and do things actively again. To be told I'll spend eternity falling on my face and singing? Misery.

As someone who also used drugs in my youth I know what you mean, but dont confuse what a friend of mine calls drugs, the devils attempt to mimic God and deceive people compared with the pure overwhelming love of God. You are comparing what is holy and perfect with what is sinful, hedonistic and depraved. Its like comparing a love for your wife/husband in a Christian marriage to someone who goes around having one night stands. One is God ordained and righteous, the other is sinful and morally questionable even by the worlds standards.
And as for the saying its just a high, that is not what I was trying to convey. As it states in the Bible you cannot help but cry out in praise, thats not the same as just singing like we do in church.

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Confessional Lutheran

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Watching and Praying Always

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Watching and Praying Always

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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