Andrew said:
If A chooses to slap B, why does God allow it? If A chooses to divorce B why does God allow it? If A chooses to shoot B in the head, why does God allow it? If A chooses to jump down from the 10th storey, why does God allow it? But if God allows such things to happen on this earth, does that mean he wants it to happen and even plans for it to happen?
No, I do not believe he ordains evil.
I believe it has to do with free will. I believe it has to do with the devil "going around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he MAY devour."
Amen, me too.
There are things we do or dont do, things we believe (doctrines) or dont believe, that cause sickness to come upon us. But God has a way out, he always provides a way out for his people. We are to find out what his ways are regarding living in divine health, and submit to his ways. We may not get it right all the time but we work towards it. We are all learning the ways of God, even in the area of health and healing.
Hmm, that wasn't half bad, but where I disagree is that doctrines and things we do or not do, does not cause suffering, we do not know what really causes suffering but other hand because it is the human condition that God saw fit to remain with us for his own mysterious reasons, this was his plan, not to inflict evil on us but he permits evil to remain even after Jesus redeemed us.
I mean there are natural consequence like if you smoke for 30 years and you get lung cancer then who gave you that cross? Not God but he can heal you by using the cross of Christ to turn that cross of cancer into a grace to heal you spiritually, he can bring good even out of self inflicted suffering.
Humility is also a grace that can be drawn from suffering, if we are all the time healed then where is the virtues that a Christian are to develop ever developed?
Where I do agree is that God does give us a way out when ever we go to him and ask him. He is a good God that wants to heal us, but he knows absolutely in his wisdom what is the best healing we need and all I am saying is that may not be a physical one all the time. His thoughts are not ours and his thoughts and ways are high above our.
My friend, all sin was taken care of at the cross. Jesus did not do an incomplete work. If you study the five offerings in the OT (Leviticus), you will find that they cover all sins. Jesus' work is so powerful and wonderful that it takes five offerings to describe and cover it!
I agree, you are not talking to a Calvinist, here. I believe in the power of the blood to save all and to deliver all, but we see healings in a different light. I do not believe that our temporary physical condition/perfection is what is top of God's healing priority list. He sees the whole plan, the whole picture why he would allow something physical to remain, so he knows better, he is looking out for our eternity, not only our immediate temporary state.
By original sin I take it you mean Adam's sin. Then read Romans 5 which compares Adam's sin to our Lord's work.
Surly you do not disagree that eve though we are justified by Christ, we still have a sin nature that we always have to "work out" with fear and trembling? The consequence, not the guilt still remains with us.
Finally, the only way a suffering or sickness can be turned into a "grace" is for that condition to be completely healed. You cannot call a sickness or any sickness a "grace" or "blessing" becos scripture already clearly calls all sickness a curse.
Again you are looking at this from a worldly one side of heaven way.
Yes, of course, we do not doubt that God can use sickness the devil brings to reap some benefits out of it (like a closer walk with Jesus) when we dont have the faith to be healed but that is not God's best for us. For one thing, the biblical way to know God more intimately is not by way of sickness, you'll never find that in the Bible. eg Paul prayed that the people would have a spirit of wisdom and revelation to know Jesus more. not a spirit of cancer or diabetes.
But we do not ask for suffering, that would be wrong, we just know that in this valley of tears there will be suffering it is inevitable, for what ever reasons. Thanks be to God he gave us the power of the cross where we can turn suffering into grace, the way Christ turned his suffering into grace for all of us.