Male Homosexuality

Status
Not open for further replies.

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
30,454
5,306
✟828,591.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Formal Debate Guidelines





The Formal Debate

Please note that all of Christian Forums rules apply.

Please note also that the Formal Debate forum is fully moderated, which means that when a participant of the debate submits a post the post is invisible within the forum until approved by staff. Only the debate participants and the moderators may post in the formal debate threads.

If you are participating in a concurrent debate, your post will wait to be approved until the opponent has submitted their post. If not, it will simply need to be approved for compliance with forum rules and the specific debate rules before moderator approval.

Extensions may be granted if a participant has missed a debate deadline and that will be upon discussion with a moderator and the other participant.

Participants in the debate are discouraged from posting in the Peanut Gallery discussion thread until after the debate has concluded. Once the debate is finished, the discussion can continue in the peanut gallery discussion thread.

If there are any questions, feel free to PM any of the moderators responsible for this forum. This forum has been created to provide the avenue for more in depth discussions of certain topics between a limited number of people.

Please enjoy.


Male Homosexuality Stipulations:


  • Both parties agree that the focus will be on Male Homosexuality only I agree to keep this debate on the topic of male homosexuality, but reference to female homosexuality can be used when relevant.
  • Both agree not to use The Bible as an Authority on this Subject, although general references to a Personal Theistic Designer/Creator or atheistic Materialism - Naturalism could be used , if appropriate and desired.
9. Proposed starting date: Monday, January 27, 2014

Peanut Gallery for this thread can be found here:


Happy Debating!:thumbsup::)
  1. Topic:
    Male Homosexuality in any Society is a gross perversion / has been, is, and will continue to be harmful /fatal to its Participants / and thus harms Society as a whole in which case it should be banned .
  2. Affirmative: TheyCallMeDavid
    Opposing: Freodin
  3. Rounds: 3
  4. Alternating rounds starting with TheyCallMeDavid's first post.for a total of six posts.
  5. Time limit between posts: 10 days maximum, there is no minimum. (10 days following staff review and the approved post being put up).
  6. Maximum length for each post: 5,000 words
  7. Quotes and References are allowed; Please note that all quotes will fall under the 20% rule.
  8. Special stipulations regarding posts;

  • Both parties agree that the focus will be on Male Homosexuality only I agree to keep this debate on the topic of male homosexuality, but reference to female homosexuality can be used when relevant.
  • Both agree not to use The Bible as an Authority on this Subject, although general references to a Personal Theistic Designer/Creator or atheistic Materialism - Naturalism could be used , if appropriate and desired.
9. Starting date: Monday, February 1, 2014

10. Peanut gallery can be found here: Male Homosexuality Peanut Gallery:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hammster

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
69
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Moderator, I wasn't advised that the Room was finalized ... and only that the Room was in the process of getting set up. Now that ive found out on my own that it is in fact ready to go ... I hereby request an additional 2 days from today to allow me time for my first Opening/Introductory Post. Thank you. David.
 
Upvote 0

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
30,454
5,306
✟828,591.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Moderator, I wasn't advised that the Room was finalized ... and only that the Room was in the process of getting set up. Now that ive found out on my own that it is in fact ready to go ... I hereby request an additional 2 days from today to allow me time for my first Opening/Introductory Post. Thank you. David.

No worries, I'll make it Feb. 1, you can start sooner if you like:):thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
69
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
INTRODUCTION


I want to thank my Debate Partner and pro-activist for Homosexuality , FREODIN, for being willing to explore this popular subject wiyh me. We have both agreed not to use The Bible as an authority in this debate even though we both know that it condemns all forms of Homosexuality and explicitly labels it as gross perversion and an abomination to the Creator himself ; ergo, I shall be making my case from other mutually acceptable Sources including Medical and Scientific research , studies, and unbiased polls within the Homosexual Community ... to accurately answer the question of : Is Homosexuality a dangerous lifestyle for its Participants and when widespread (as it is) a danger to entire Nations.

As an adjunct consideration, we will be looking at this topic from a repeated Cause and Effect standpoint whereby a constant repeated bad effect on society leads One to conclude that the Cause is highly toxic , inherently dangerous, and something that should be permanently banned if indeed that is the case.



Currently, there are some 85 Countries of the World that make practiced Homosexuality illegal . That specific list is given in this following site ; in addition, there are 5 Countries that find practiced Homosexuality worthy of capital punishment... Currently, the nations that prescribe capital punishment for homosexuals are Iran, Mauritania, the Republic of Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen with 2 additional Countries considering it.

South Sudan, the world's newest country, may become a sixth nation to do so, while, Uganda may become the seventh.

The death penalty also is carried out against homosexuals in certain parts of Somalia and Nigeria.





Where is Gay Sex Illegal? Which countries ban gay sex?.



One must ask why there is such concern among Nations that its Laws would strictly prohibit this Lifestyle , even to the point of trying to eradicate it by establishing stiff legal penalties even to the point of capital punishment . Many Homosexual Adherrants would like to point to 'religious extremism' as a convenient excuse ...but in my next posting, we shall take a closer look at the consequential devastating health Fallout from the Homosexual Lifestyle which will shed much more light on this question ,conclusively, as to why a good portion of the Worlds Countries don't want this ignominous Lifestyle as part of their society , which the U.S. has grown apathetic toward.



David
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,711
3,761
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟242,764.00
Faith
Atheist
"Is Homosexuality a dangerous lifestyle for its Participants?" David asks and "Is it a danger to entire Nations?"

First of all, homosexuality is indeed a dangerous lifestyle for its participants, and it is indeed a danger to society.

As David has pointed out, homosexuals are persecuted by the law in a lot of countries, and, even where they can have a legal existence, are often stigmatized and outcast by the "mainstream" society, leading to discrimination and persecution.
"Widespread" - in publicity and acceptance - homosexuality is also a danger to every society that defines itself via an authoritative definition of "morality" and the ostracism of non-conformists.

But I don't think these are the answers he is aiming for. They would not do to support his position of banning homosexuality... quite the contrary.

So is homosexuality in itself a danger for its participants? No. Even when we limit ourselves to male homosexuality, and here even to some limited sexual activities, there is almost no increased inherent risk for the participants.

Is homosexuality a danger for "nations" then? Again no. There is not a single reason, no "cause and effect standpoint" that would support this idea. There is no data, no example, no support for that view. Many "societies" and "nations" have risen and fallen during human history... and not a single one of them due to the acceptance or promotion of homosexuality.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
69
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When I read FREODINS second sentence , I was quite encouraged to finally see brazen honesty come forth ...but alas....it was short lived as his rebuttal proceeded . We are being asked to believe that over 85 Countries of the World are simply bigoted , don't like the idea of two people of the same sex showing eros love , and are completely without justification for the harsh social and legal persecution on such a People Group when 'there are no health concerns / data indicating that the Homosexual Lifestyle is dangerous (in the least)' . So, in this segment of the Debate , we will examine these common retorts from the Homosexual Community to see if in fact, what they tell us is the truth , OR if the Homosexual Agenda is one of quixotic denial with apathy trumping astronomical risk .



We shall proceed to examine the Health consequences of the Homosexual Lifestyle which by the way , are at enormous documented epidemic levels especially in the USA and Europe overall , so we need to look into the most popular acts of Male Homosexuality that are conducted worldwide . At this point, I would ask you to detour and please scroll down in the following site (MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO) so you will fully understand my concern and why Countries around the World are and should be concerned about this highly toxic Lifestyle bolstering their good rationale for banning it ---- please take the time to specifically read the headings of : Oral sex, Rectal sex, Fecal sex, and Urine sex which according to the secular scientific studies and polls (resource info listed at the very bottom of the site) , are the direct catalyst for great Health consequences to the Human Body .



Now that we have identified the most common sex acts of Homosexuals along with what occurs physiologically .... occurring literally millions of times per day worldwide..... we can proceed to examine the health fallout as a direct result of Homosexual behavior according to the Medical Profession. Additionally, Homosexuality demands of the Participant that he/she suppress their moral conscience and common sense to the danger ...in order to hold in high esteem the delight that comes from desired sexual perversion to fill a present emotional void ----- an emotional void that if the Participant desired...could be addressed thru compassionate , effective, ongoing Professional Counseling channels which countless have experienced victory thru , instead of the temporary anesthetic and enormous risk of STD contraction thru this addictive Lifestyle .

Summarizing .... here are the most common diseases stemming from Male Homosexuality :

Anal Cancer
Chlamydia trachomatis
Cryptosporidium
Giardia lamblia
Herpes simplex virus
Human immunodeficiency virus
Human papilloma virus
Isospora belli
Microsporidia
Gonorrhea
Viral hepatitis types B & C
Syphilis

While most of Us haven't heard of a few of these diseases , everyone has heard of HIV which leads to the premature painful death sentence of AIDS...a thorough breakdown of the Bodys Immune System . "IF" you can even get an ardent Homosexual to admit to AIDS being linked to Homosexual acts...you will never get them to admit to the real truth behind how much AIDS is coming from the Male Homosexual Community., for to do so would certainly cast Homosexuality in an even worse light than what it is already is among the Informed . The staggering truth is shown in the following site and by scrolling down to the first Pie Chart for MALE Homosexuality...we see the dark blue highlight that indicates 78% of ALL AIDS comes from Male Homosexuality according to the Scientific Studies .
USA HIV & AIDS Statistics | AVERT . Equally devastating, is the number of AIDS cases of people waiting to die a very painful premature death at 1.8 million in the USA with 1/5th not even aware of their death sentence status and 2.3 million in Europe according to the latest scientific data on Wikipedia , with well over half a million having died of AIDS in the USA ...........again........78% of them directly from Male Homosexuality.

I wonder what these Victims , their surviving Family and Friends , would say to the mantra of ' There are no health concerns from Male Homosexuality' as my Debate Opponent boldly proclaimed ????

For the sake of brevity, I shall briefly mention that other scientific documented factual consequences I found for Homosexuality include : a Shorter Lifespan , High occurrence of Psychiatric Disorders including severe depression, suicide, being higher than the National average . In addition, the Medical financial cost on a Nation that endorses Homosexuality as the USA does, is absolutely staggering . If my Debate Opponent would like to challenge any of these points id be please to show this to be absolutely true based on secular scientific studies .

Typically, after presenting the unbiased atrocious scientific facts ...the retort will often be : 'Well, those findings came from an anti-homosexual Website (namely, Christian) so we cant trust them' . To that I say , the Scientific facts derived from these Scientific Studies and Polls are SECULAR meaning Non-Christian in origin if you care to examine the Source Info provided . Some of these findings come from none other than Dr. Alfred Kinsey of the reknown Kinsey Institute who was a professed Bi-sexual of enormous perverted magnitude according to the historical records . Further, One should not expect the exposing of Homosexuality to come from an atheistic website since their apathy promotes such dangerous and destructive behavior in society. Other popular attempts to help downplay the facts of dangerous Male Homosexuality , is to bring up that 'the Heterosexual Community has many of the same health consequences' ; to that I say : True....so, does another Social Group contributing to the same havoc therefore make Homosexuality acceptable and a permissible lifestyle ???? And, which Social Group IS responsible for 78% of the fatal AIDS epidemic per the statistics ? Another attempt to protect Male Homosexuality...is the declaration : ' Well, what about Female Homosexuality then ... THAT isn't so bad is it '? Answer : This debate is focusing on the primary cause and effect of Male Homosexuality and if Lesbianism is of interest..then we can save that for a new Formal Debate where it will be shown that Lesbianism is wrought with toxic physical / mental fallout based on its popular forms .

So, I trust my Debate Opponent wont resort to these and other popular lame strawman arguments which are disingenuous by nature to downplay the havoc of Male Homosexuality .



My next and final segment (after a brief rebuttal to whatever FREODIN offers up) will focus on how the Homosexual Agenda is bent on destroying the very moral fabric of civilized Countries thru a plethora of strategic ways , despite the proven Scientific Research that shows the Lifestyle to be one of enormous deplorable consequences....and how various American Institutions are almost rolling out the red-carpet in the name of meh .



David.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
30,454
5,306
✟828,591.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Mod Hat

In order to comply with CF's rules some links to certain supporting material have, and may in the future be disabled due to the content of these links being in violation of CF's rules. Since some content of these links are important to the participants arguments; we will allow the titles to remain so that they may be accessed by search engine.

Be advised that the content may be extremely graphic and offensive.

Mark

Staff Supervisor.
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,711
3,761
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟242,764.00
Faith
Atheist
Are all the countries that penalize homosexuality "bigoted"? I don't think so, and I cannot remember having made that argument.

If we look at a list of countries that forbid homosexuality - and not only "eros love", but in many cases every expression of love between persons of the same gender - we find that most of these countries are either those who endorse or adhere to very restrictive social systems. This can have several reasons: religious, historical or political.

And on the other hand, if we look at the countries that allow homosexuality, these are mostly those countries that practice a culture of individual freedom and human rights.

So are we now asked to believe that those over 85 countries - not known for their valuing personal freedom and the well-being of the individual - condemn homosexuality only for health reasons? And that those countries who do value the rights of the individual and spend vast sums of money for health purposes turn a blind eye towards this one health risk, just because of the "Homosexual Agenda"?

It seems we are asked to believe just that, because that seems to be David's main argument here.

But why then is homosexuality in many of these laws referred to as "unnatural", "immoral" or "indecent"? And why is homosexuality singled out over all the other, much more widespread risks for "public health", many of whose are much more dangerous... and legal?
In several of these nations HIV infections for example are much more prevalent in the heterosexual population. Yet there are no initiatives to criminalize heterosexual actions or "attractions"... not even the specific cases of "infected" hetero sexual acts.

And that is the next problem in David's line of argumentation. He presents us with a list of "most popular [homosexual] acts" and another list of infections that "stem[...] from Male Homosexuality".

But in fact, none of these "diseases" do. They can be sexually transmitted, but do not originate from homosexual acts or sexual acts at all. Many of these "most common diseases" on his list are transmitted via non-sexual means to a much higher degree than via sexual. Many of the infections that are transmitted in a larger number by sexual contacts are mainly transmitted via heterosexual acts.

This leads us to another problem in this approach. David presents that data as if homosexual acts leads to disease. But regardless of whether his data is correct, not only does he misrepresent the causality, but he also ignores all the data - all the people - that does not get represented.
Homosexual acts can lead to infections. So can heterosexual acts. So can non-sexual acts. But the vast majority of all these acts does not lead to infection at all.
It is correct that the majority of new HIV infections is with homosexual males. But it is also correct that the even greater majority of homosexual males are not infected at all.

In most of the countries where homosexuality is legal, there are already the legal means to prosecute and punish bodily harm done by sexual activities. There are also initiatives promoting ways to reduce the risk of bodily harm. These are intelligent and productive ways of protecting people - in contrast to introducing draconian punishments on potential actions.

This criminalizing of homosexuality is not a way to promote public health and protect the population... it is mean to ostracize and exterminate a group of this same population that can safely be "othered".
There are several other "lifestyles" that wreck havoc on general health, some to a much higher degree than anything homosexuality might do - and all of them are "accepted lifestyles". Obesity for example is statistically the second leading cause of deaths in the USA, just behind the use of tobacco. Over 30% of the US population is obese, about 18% smoke. The deaths attributed to these two "lifestyles" alone per year are more than all AIDS related deaths in the USA ever.
But instead of trying to jail overweight people for life or execute smokers, attempts to reduce the calorie intake, promote healthy diets or prohibit tobacco use are met with outrage by the people seeing their "rights" and "liberties" in danger. Instead of criminalizing the "fat agenda" and the "tobacco lifestyle", it is promoted and advertised.
What is done about all those victims, and their surviving family and friends? Wouldn't they all feel much better if they knew their loved ones where executed for crimes against society instead of having died of lung cancer? Or if they were still alive and could be visited every other weekend in federal prison?

There is more.
Homosexuality is more than the strawman reduction to icky sex that David wants to promote. Just as heterosexuality is more than having sex, icky or not.
It has been said a number of times here on this forum: heterosexuality is always seen as a wide range of experiences - love, romance, relationship, intimacy, family... - homosexuality is always reduced to "anal sex". This is false, and this is unbelievable insulting to homosexuals.
Homosexuals have the same rights to live their lifes to their preferences like anybody else. If there are risks involved - and there are risks involved in any "lifestyle"! - it should be the goal of society in entirety to reduce those risks and not engage in witch hunts on an entire segment of the people.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
69
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ill make a few counter rebuttals to FREODINS last post before I move onto my concluding thoughts on the ever increasing militant strategic Homosexual Agenda , how it IS impacting America so drastically , and what we can expect from our Youth being indoctrinated and brainwashed at an earlier and ealier age .



FREODIN in his most recent post has resorted to words and phrases in an attempt to downplay the proven Medical Consequences of Male Homosexuality and has interjected the very popular excuses I listed in my last post in an attempt to lessen the devastating impact that Male Homosexuality brings to the table . Additionally, he has tried to deny the secular scientific studies which categorically list Diseases stemming from Male Homosexuality by saying ' none of these diseases do ' , regardless of the Scientific Studies saying exactly the opposite . What we have is a denial of the facts , a few outright lies, and a typical Homosexual MO of softening the stark devastating consequences to a lifestyle that is foundationally perverted and very wrong to participate in. Such softening-tactics and lies are listed chronologically thusly :



a. He points out that these 85 countries that ban homosexuality also forbids all other expressions of love between same gender people ; this is of course a gross exaggeration because no Nation is interested in banning a love-expression of Phileo-love (brotherly / sisterly love) which is the appropriate form of demonstrating love between two Males which can come in the form of a non sexual hug, even kiss on the cheeks which is a common greeting in many cultures , or arm in arm ; what these Countries DO take issue with are the twisted and confused forms of showing love that involve the genitilia absolutely resulting in spread of disease(s) as proven. Can One blame a Nation for not wanting Americas shame thru Homosexual medical consequences visited on them ? These Countries that ban homosexuality do so for very good reason and are justified in having what FREODIN negatively terms a restricted social system . They are obviously Countries who have witnessed Americas freedoms and liberties being abused, twisted, and wrongfully used for the perpetuation of perverted lifestyles and an entire gammit of moral degradation -- when our Framers drafted these Freedoms and Liberties, it was under the premise that they would not be used to justify the suppressing of moral consciences of the reprobate Minded in American Society so they could behave in a shameful manner . In fact, many of our Framers spoke out vehemently against Homosexuality (quotations upon request) . Further, Human RIGHTS were never instituted to blatantly cross the lines of moral , ethical, and proper sexual behavior --- Human Rights should be denied an Individual/Group if used in a deplorable manner that brings STD epidemics and premature painful deaths as a direct result of its practices . But sadly, we live in a Country that has grown apathetic to living in a dignified manner and its lack of restrictions has caused the U.S. to fall on its own sword . Im please that at least 85 other Countries don't want that to occur to their homeland and I wholeheartedly support their agenda for a civilized self controlled populace thru extraordinary means to maintain such.



b. A lie presented is that he espouses there is 'only one health risk' with Male Homosexuality ; as already shown thru the scientific studies...there are many medical consequences to the most popular forms of Male Homosexuality including staggering inceases in HIV leading to AIDS, Hepatitis A and B , Syphilis , and other blood born diseases .... and these just from the most popular form of sex amongst Male Homosexuals (anal sex) . Many other sexual diseases are transmitted thru other methods as the scientific study report indicated (google : Medical Consequences of Homosexuality to review again) . As if the physical consequences weren't enough to make One turn from a Homosexuality lifestyle , the scientific studies go on to report on the mental consequences and shortened life that occurs ............ something which FREODIN didn't care to address in his rebuttal.



c. As to the terms of 'unnatural, immoral, and indecent' used by FREODIN ; all of these terms become quite valid to use based solely on the factual medical consequences to the homosexual lifestyle . The lifestyle is certainly UNnatural because of the damage that does occur to the rectum and anus versus no damage that occurs during typical heterosexual penis to vagina lovemaking. It is immoral because all sex acts between Male Homosexuals were never intended or created to be this way if only taking into account the design of the parts involved and nothing else, and its certainly indecent what Homosexuals do evidenced by the fact that CF rules prohibit Me from even tactfully describing in common verbage the main sex acts of Male Homosexuality (something FREODIN tries to soften by using words such as 'ickyness , et al' ) ; however...they can be brought to light , again, by googling 'Medical Consequences to Homosexuality' and scrolling down to the list of popular utterly disgusting and personally degrading enjoyments found with this People Group .



d. Another lie that was offered, is that ' David misrepresents the causality coming from Male Homosexuality ' . To that I say...no I haven't misrepresented anything and have backed up the present day FACTS with the written scientific evidence presented with Sources given. When the medical consequences are uncovered in a conducted scientific study , there is no misrepresentation. There was no deceit or malice on my behalf -- quite the contrary. But alas, this is one tactic that the Advocate of apathy or practicing Member of Male Homosexuality must assert . Another tactic as I mentioned in my last post, was to soften Male Homosexuality by using the excuse that Heterosexuality is responsible for STD's too . I never discounted that ., but the scientific studies show that HIV leading to fatal AIDS , as well as Hepatitis B , and other blood born diseases....occur FAR more often because of Male Homosexuality directly . In addition, the Mental fallout of things like severe depression, suicide , and other neurosis ... directly occurring from Male Homosexuality far surpass that of Heterosexuality as well as the national average of the general populace per the scientific studies.



e. Another unsubstantiated assertion tetering on another lie....is that the very documented Diseases listed from Male Homosexual behavior occur 'far more often thru NON sexual means (than sexual) ' . I would imagine he is referring to blood transfusions and drug addicts sharing needles in particular. But again, the documented scientific findings do NOT show this in the least , and I challenge him to show where it does.



f. Another soft-pedal attempt comes with his continued use of the word 'infections' instead of the more accurate term of established and often permanent 'disease' that has been acquired. Using 'infection' the way he did almost gives One the idea that its just a temporary casual affliction. It is akin to calling the suction procedure of ripping apart developing unborn Human Beings (Walk in Abortion) : 'Healthcare' for Women to soften the drastic outcome . When discussing Homosexuality or other popular Lifestyle societal ills , be on guard for such soft-pedaling terms to downplay the devastation associated with such immoral Lifestyles.


g. 'Some Male Homosexuals aren't infected at all' . The problem with this excuse is three-fold : 1. This is taken from the scientific study done by the CDC (Center for Disease Control...a U.S. Government Health Entity) :



" The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that 29% of the hepatitis A cases in Denver, 66% in New York, 50% in San Francisco, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal and 26% in Melbourne in the first six months of 1991 were among gays.11 A 1982 study "suggested that some transmission from the homosexual group to the general population may have occurred."12

When we consider that about 2% of the population makes up Homosexuals (currently, but is quickly rising) , yet in most Cities the majority of Hepatits A occurring is directly from the Homosexual Community .... it is quite plain to see that the either the Majority of Homosexuals are Carriers of this particular disease AND/OR the rate of promiscuity is phenomenally high ... which in fact it is .



2. When we look at the scientific findings from the site based on polls answered BY Homosexuals themselves ... we find an alarming rate of promiscuity which spreads Homosexual diseases : "Since many contacts occur between strangers (70% of gays estimated that they had had sex only once with over half of their partners17,27), and gays average somewhere between 106 and 1105 different partners/year, the potential for infection is considerable" . Ergo, there is absolutely no doubt based on the statistics in 1. and 2. above....that this minority People Group has to occupy dangerous diseases among the great majority of them. The amount of partners per year in this Dangerous Sex Game are quite astronomical and no wonder we have so many Disease ridden Homosexuals --- diseases that destroy the Human Body .



3. Not every Homosexual knows whether they are carrying a disease or not . Many times it doesn't show up immediately yet it can still be transmittable during this stage of unknown . Further, not every Homosexual is wanting to admit they are a Disease Carrier for that would certainly inhibit Ones 'fun' (at great expense) ; this apathy toward spreading disease to Others is commonplace .
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
69
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
______________________________________________



h. FREODIN speaks of criminalization ; The criminalization of Homosexuality in these 85 countries are absolutely necessary in an attempt to curtail the dangerous disease fallout that this minority Group represents whether from its own Natives and from infected Visitors . A system of deterrence has to be in place with very severe consequences otherwise careless apathy from this addictive Lifestyle will be visited on these Countries the same that it has in America of which there is no going back .



i . Trying to appeal to other social addictions that lead to a premature painful death such as cigarette smoking or illegal drug usage in an attempt to make Homosexuality look permissible and 'not so bad for its consequences' ... is disingenuous ,albeit a popular excuse . People do many things that are unhealthy. Although we allow people to do those things in the United States as a matter of freedom, we tend to discourage them from doing so - except regarding homosexuality. It is ironic that our public school system encourages students to become involved in homosexuality. In order to be consistent, I think it is time we encourage our children to start smoking and drinking as well. After all, it is just an alternate lifestyle !



j. 'Icky sex' .... yet another soft pedal to what most often occurs between Homosexuals per the scientific studies and polls answered by Homosexuals themselves. This 'ickyness' is so profoundly disgusting and perverted, that even C.F. rules wont allow me to honestly describe these very common acts which plain commonsense would have a Person keep far away from --- diseases that get into the bloodstream , saliva, or thru direct ingesting allowing disease to find a Home. This 'icky sex' further exemplifies the perversion that requires of the Participant to adopt a reprobate Mind thru suppression of moral conscience in order to acquire another temporary fix . I would admonish the Reader to review these MOST POPULAR Homosexual Acts in the site by scrolling down to the very first table by googling : Medical Consequences of Homosexuals. Maybe we could have FREODIN describe to us the highly popular consequences of Gay Bowel Syndrome and why a plug or diaper is necessary since Male Homosexuality is afterall....'so natural' ? Ill be looking for this in his final post.



k. Of course Homosexuals have a life outside of these dangerous destructive Diseases speading venues ; they are People with jobs, do healthy recreational activities, have goals, dreams, aspirations, personal relationships and with some even in Politics and responsible Leadership positions --- the problem is : None of these therefore nullify the epidemic spread of Diseases coming from a sexually confused Lifestyle that was never intended for the Human Anatomy , that has a specific agenda to proselytize our innocent Youth into the danger which will certainly result in premature painful death for upcoming generations , and demands the entire populous admit it is a permissible harmless Lifestyle otherwise youre 'a Bigot' ( as if someone can be a Bigot for taking a stand against indecency, immorality, and havoc caused a Nation ) .



l. A People Group who takes the freedoms and liberties of a Nation and twists them, perverts them, and uses them to justify an abhorrent Lifestyle which has been proven all along to bring premature death thru spreadable diseases , permanent lifelong blood-born infections , directly linked mental neurosis , increased suicide , family upheaval , and huge national financial cost .... should not only forfeit certain 'RIGHTS' but should be punished as a deterrant while at the same time being offered free national social programs to help exit the dangerous addiction. It was NEVER the Framers intention concerning our nations Bill of Rights to be used in an indecorous and ignominous manner to justify destructive endeavors such as homosexuality , inappropriate contentography via 'freedom of speech', murdering unborn developing human beings in the name of 'liberty' , et al, ad nauseum .



m. FREODIN ,it appears, is all for reducing the risks of (what he finally admits to as) Diseases in Homosexuality ; Im interested in hearing what he suggests would be efficacious to reducing HIV leading to AIDS with 78% coming from 2% of the Population / reducing the many blood born diseases which are listed in the site from popular male Homosexual acts including Hepatitis A and B / reducing Gay Bowel Syndrome / reducing oral transmission of Male Homosexual diseases / reducing child molestation by Homosexuals ( Family Research Institute » Blog Archive » How Much Child Molestation is Homosexual?) and a much longer list of repercussions . Perhaps the most effective method of reducing the risks are to simply cut it off at the Source thru seeking professional help to exit the inherent danger (?) ... or, would this require an admission that it has been wrong all along .



Onto my conclusion ----------



There is a specific agenda behind the Homosexual Movement when it comes to Homosexual Groups dedicated to going into Jr . High and High Schools across our nation to assure impressionable and trusting Young People that if they have an inkling toward same sex attraction its ok to further explore / the homosexual indoctrination and demands at corporate levels and political levels / the major annual Homosexual 'pride' Parades in every major U.S. City and most World Cities with its Activists ranging in ages from 9 to 99 years of age with many Males Homosexuals adorned in frilly girly like clothing whereby groping is taking place for public consumption / and standing ovations given for popular Celebrities 'coming out' about their sexual confusion instead of keeping it behind closed doors where it belongs. This agenda can be adequately summed up by this book which exposes the strategic plans of the Homosexual Community :



After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s[edit]In 2003 Alan Sears and Craig Osten, president and vice-president of the Alliance Defense Fund, an American conservative Christian organization, offered another characterization:


It is an agenda that they basically set in the late 1980s, in a book called After the Ball, where they laid out a six-point plan for how they could transform the beliefs of ordinary Americans with regard to homosexual behavior — in a decade-long time frame.... They admit it privately, but they will not say that publicly.[11] In their private publications, homosexual activists make it very clear that there is an agenda. The six-point agenda that they laid out in 1989 was explicit:
1.Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible(...)
2.Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers(...)
3.Give homosexual protectors a just cause(...)
4.Make gays look good(...)
5.Make the victimizers look bad(...)
6.Get funds from corporate America(...)[12]

After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s is a book published in 1989 by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen.[11] It argues that after the gay liberation phase of the 1970s and 1980s, gay rights groups should adopt more professional public relations techniques to convey their message. It was published by Doubleday and was generally available.
According to a Christian Broadcasting Network article by Paul Strand, Sears and Osten argue that After the Ball follows from "a 1988 summit of gay leaders in Warrenton, Virginia, who came together to agree on the agenda" and that "the two men (Kirk and Madsen) proposed using tactics on 'straight' America that are remarkably similar to the brainwashing methods of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese – mixed with Madison Avenue's most persuasive selling techniques."[13] The article goes on to claim that films such as Brokeback Mountain are part of this "well-planned propaganda campaign.



Finally, much much more could be said about the Dangers that Homosexuality brings to a Society who makes it permissive , its apathy toward dangerous Lifestyles , and where even a U.S. President (Obama) shamefully turning a blind eye to the physical and mental Disease epidemic facing his Nation largely coming from this People Group ...even choosing to compromise the very sanctity of Marriage and applaud the efforts to twist Freedoms and Rights to a Lifestyle which most of the Founding Fathers vehemently spoke out against. What this President should do IF he had the spine and genuine concern which would mean disregarding the backlash from such a decision...would be for him to offer free Professional Counseling to all practicing Homosexuals because its been proven that even sexual orientation can be changed ; only THEN can we have any hope of a disease decline . Since this will not happen, what we can expect from The Homosexual Community are an increase in diseases growing exponentially each year along with all the aforementioned devastation to its Participants and Nations at large . America will no doubt serve to be the Worlds testing grounds with (hopefully) other Nations learning from its immoral implosion .



No doubt that Homosexuality will continue to gain support from the general populace as we now embrace sexual hedonism and sexual experimentation as a favorite pastime as a result of MAN wanting to be his own authority regardless of the high level of devastation that has occurred , coupled with the wave of apathy that has swept western nations in particular --- unprecedented delusion . But hopefully , some will come to their senses before their lives expire and embrace the Creator of us all along with his loving absolute moral mandates given to protect Us from Ourselves....and most importantly, to receive the Creators free gift to have all sins including sexual perversions , forgiven from what Christ went thru on the cross as the greatest display of love ever toward Mankind who doesn't deserve it. There is no greater joy to be had than living correctly and walking with The Creator who fashioned us all in his image....and image that is supposed to reflect a semblance of purity, decency, morality, and righteousness as a constant goal .



Lastly .... I summarize my participation in this debate by offering this statement taken from a concerned Source :



'Society is legitimately concerned with health risks– they impact our taxes and everyone’s chances of illness and injury. Because we care about them, smokers are discouraged from smoking by higher insurance premiums, taxes on cigarettes and bans against smoking in public. These social pressures cause many to quit. They likewise encourage non-smokers to stay non-smokers.

Homosexuals are sexually troubled people engaging in dangerous activities. Because we care about them and those tempted to join them, it is important that we neither encourage nor legitimize such a destructive lifestyle'.





David.



end
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,711
3,761
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟242,764.00
Faith
Atheist
I see that David has finally resorted to accuse me of lying and ignoring the facts.
I was hoping that he would at last present his evidence that homosexuality is dangerous to society, but as it seem he only repeats his previous arguments, I have enough space to tackle his assertions a little more in depth.

His first accusation is that I "downplay" his facts. I'd say it is, quite the opposite, he who is constantly over-exaggerating the data. Over and over again he talks about the "stark consequences", the "devastating impact" of the "profoundly disgusting" and "foundationally perverted" lifestyle and mentions the "huge national financial cost" that the "militant strategic Homosexual Agenda" is placing on this country. And all this is "proven" by "Scientific Studies".

But he is wrong here.

Let's take a look at the "devastating impact" and the "huge costs" that homosexuality has.
According the the CDC, in the USA, there are about 20 million new infections of STD per year, with about 110 million infections in total. The annual cost - medical only - is estimated at 16 billion dollars. That is huge, isn't it? And the largest share of that sum is indeed spend on AIDS / HIV infections... because these are the ones that are not easily treatable. The rest of all those other horrible diseases that David listed is almost negligible.
Homosexuals are indeed overrepresented in this statistic, but they still are only a percentage on the whole. I did not found exact data to come to a final, but a generous (for David's side) estimation would come to about 10 billion dollars per year.

The medical costs of obesity and smoking per year are about 260 billion dollars - again only counting direct medical costs. I already mentioned the death toll these "lifestyles" take in my last post.

There is another "devastating" difference - one that David does not want to see. He is indeed misrepresenting the causality here. Obesity causes medical problems. Use of tobacco causes medical problems. Homosexual acts do not.
Homosexual acts can transmit infections. But if there isn't an infection to start with or transmission can be prevented, sexual acts are a lot less dangerous than eating a hamburger.

But as David said in his last post: what we do to combat these "devastating lifestyles" is, "we tend to discourage them from doing so". Except regarding homosexuality. Here we promote criminalization, punishment, encarceration, execution, extermination of the offending humans. No, not only the offending humans - the whole group they belong to.

It is true, homosexuals are overrepresented in treatments for STDs, as David cited. But what he ignores here (as I came to understand, this misrepresentation goes back to the original "scientific study" he keeps toting) is the fact that these numbers do not represent a percentage of the homosexuals at all... only of people who sought treatment for STDs. To conclude that because 29% of hepatitis A cases in Denver was amongst homosexuals, 29% of homosexuals in Denver have hepatitis A would also mean that 71% of Denver's heterosexuals have hepatitis A.
Homosexuals who don't have STDs are ignored in these statistics, but David and the people he supports still tar them with the same brush.

As do some of the 85 countries he still cites as being justified in persecuting homosexuals. Note: I said "some". It would be nice that, if David accuses me of lying and exaggerating, he would at least get my quotes correctly.
The specific example I had in mind was Zimbabwe, where any "act involving contact between two males that would be regarded by a reasonable person as an indecent act." is outlawed. That would include about anything that heterosexual couples do in public.
Similar conditions exist in other penal codes, and on top of that we have to add the behaviour of "the concerned public" against people which they perceive to be gay.

In a lot of, especially south african countries that have such harsh rules, the STD / HIV problem is much more prevalent with the heterosexual population. But as in the US with obesity or smoking - or football! or guns! - there is not a hint of a plan to outlaw all these health-risks.

Homosexuality is singled out. Not because the impact or the costs of homosexuality is higher.... as I have shown above. But because homosexuals is a despised minority that can safely be singled out.

That is what the "Homosexual Agenda" is fighting against. The incitement of fear ("homosexuals are after your children"), the lies ("they encourage our youth to engage in gay sex") and the slanderous assertions ("homosexuals need to wear diapers") - all of that backed up with shoddy "scientific studies" like the one that comes up when you follow David's Google search terms. Or combined with the debunked argument that homosexuals can be "changed".

They fight this bigotry, because real scientific studies have shown over and over again that any statistical overrepresentation of an othervise diverse social group is always based on social problems, not on inherent characteristics.

Solving these problems, stemming from persecution and hate is what is necessary. Criminalizing homosexuality is not going to solve these problems. America has a prime example to show that: the Prohibition.



To summarize:
David has tried to portray homosexuality as depraving, disgusting, perverted, reprobate. That is his personal opinion, and many people disagree with him.
You don't get to put your own personal tastes into law.

David has tried to portray homosexuality as inherently dangerous. Based on medical as well as social data, this image does not fit.

David has tried to assert that existing laws against homosexuality are based on a concern for public health. He could not provide any evidence for that, and I think I was able to give some against that.

David has tried to assert the huge impact that homosexuality would have on the "apathetic" societies and made the prediction of an "immoral implosion" of the USA. He could not show any data to back that up.

David has tried to support his position with references to "scientific studies". His sources are either revealed by scientific consensus as biased, unscientific and unsupported by data, or, in the cases his base data is correct, simple do not support the conclusions he wants to draw from them.

David repeatedly accuses me of lying in his last post, but in every single case he misrepresents the statements I really made.


All that points to a very weak position for his side of the argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Genersis
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.