Making an Inquiry

[ModernProtestant]

Recently I have been studying Calvinism and believe it has a firm, biblical foundation. However, there are some points that still have me confused. My two questions revolve around predestination:

1. I sort of understand the doctrine of Unconditional Election, but I am wondering, how do I know if I am predestined to salvation? Also, doesn't it seem futile to evangelize if some people are destined to Hell anyways?

2. On what basis are people destined to Hell? Since it is not a matter of virtue, merit, or faith, why would anyone be unconditionally elected to eternal damnation?

Many thanks,

 

[GrinningDwarf]

1. I sort of understand the doctrine of Unconditional Election, but I am wondering, how do I know if I am predestined to salvation?

How did you respond to the Gospel call? The one that started with the bad news that says you are a sinner fully deserving of eternal damnation? Do you come to God on the basis of what Christ has done alone? (This is the part where I can catch some flack from other Calvinists, because I fully believe that there are saved Arminans and others who think they are coming to God on that basis alone without considering the consequences of their faulty doctrine. These are the ones who are repelled when you suggest they they are basing their salvation upon anything other than the finished work of the Lord. I don't think we have to have our theological i's dotted and t's crossed to get into heaven.)

Also, doesn't it seem futile to evangelize if some people are destined to Hell anyways?

Jesus said to do it. Good enough for me. We aren't supposed to try and figure out who the elect are. We just have to give them the message. The elect will respond at some point in time...if not this time, then maybe next time.

2. On what basis are people destined to Hell?

Original sin. Besides Genesis 3, you can also find this in the first three chapters of Romans.

Since it is not a matter of virtue, merit, or faith, why would anyone be unconditionally elected to eternal damnation?

This gets into the longstanding debate among Calvinists over 'double predestination'. Don't get me started...!

Many thanks,

You're welcome!! Welcome to Semper Reformanda!

 

[JimfromOhio]

I follow Calvinism and other Reformed doctrines. Even though its hard to "comprehend" but not too hard to "understand" the concept. I have to remember that God is in control and He KNOWS every heart and knows all of us before we were born. Sovereign God is the absolute, infinite, unqualified ruler in all realms in heaven, earth and sea. God is to be Lord over all the creation, He is omnipotent, He is omniscient, He is omnipresent. He knows every little details and He has already planned out our tomorrows and He is holding the world in the palm of His hand. Sovereignty and omnipotence are together that one cannot exist without the other. In my position, God will not hold me responsible to fully comprehend the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty but to LOVE Him and have FAITH in Him.

 

[Adammi]

I've had the same questions.
The only way I could answer them was to stop viewing it as a search to understand "calvinism" and just begin to see how Jesus dealt with people and what he told them.

 

[ModernProtestant]

I guess the main thing I'm worried about is what God has chosen for me. Am I predestined to Hell or Heaven?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I guess the main thing I'm worried about is what God has chosen for me. Am I predestined to Hell or Heaven?

That's between you and God. I have struggled with that myself in the past however, what I can help you from my experience. A true Christian who have the Holy Spirit in the heart will understand God's standards of "sin" because a Christian will understand God's holiness. A person without having the Holy Spirit in the heart will not understand God's holiness therefore a person will define God's definition of sin in a human point of view (rather than spirit). Salvation is free through Grace (undeserve kindness) of God and His unconditional love. Is God's grace cheap? Becoming a disciple, following Jesus Christ requires personal cost, giving up your selfish "me" and become like Christ. Jesus might have grieved over His Cost of Discipleship requirements, but He never ran after them to try to win them with rosy promises. Although God's grace has been given freely to humans who do not deserve it, the grace of God and point out that Jesus commanded us to take up our cross and follow Him. To grow in Christ as God desires demands on our submission to Him. The Holy Spirit gave me assurance of my faith and doctrines I follow. No Church, No Denomination, No pastors or anyone can do this for me. Holy Spirit is the ONLY person who can do this.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I guess the main thing I'm worried about is what God has chosen for me. Am I predestined to Hell or Heaven?

BAD question. If we are permitted to inquire about our own election, we can only do it in Christ. We may never ask, apart from Christ, "am I predestined for Heaven or Hell?" But all believers who ask, "Am I elect, in Christ?" the answer is a most vehement "yes!" So the appropriate question is first, do I have faith, which the Westminster Confession defines as "accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone" (14.2). Jesus said, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out" (Jn. 6:37).

I think the best Reformed statement on this question of our election, is found in the Second Helvetic Confession (ch. 10):

Whether We Are Elected. We therefore find fault with those who outside of Christ ask whether they are elected. And what has God decreed concerning them before all eternity? For the preaching of the Gospel is to be heard, and it is to be believed; and it is to be held as beyond doubt that if you believe and are in Christ, you are elected. For the Father has revealed unto us in Christ the eternal purpose of his predestination, as I have just now shown from the apostle in 2 Tim. 1:9-10. This is therefore above all to be taught and considered, what great love of the Father toward us is revealed to us in Christ. We must hear what the Lord himself daily preaches to us in the Gospel, how he calls and says: "Come to me all who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Also, "It is not the will of my Father that one of these little ones should perish" (Matt. 18:14).

Let Christ, therefore be the looking glass, in whom we may contemplate our predestination. We shall have a sufficiently clear and sure testimony that we are inscribed in the Book of Life if we have fellowship with Christ, and he is ours and we are his in true faith.


Temptation in Regard to Predestination. In the temptation in regard to predesination, than which there is scarcely any other more dangerous, we are confronted by the fact that God's promises apply to all the faithful, for he says: "Ask, and everyone who seeks, shall receive" (Luke 11:9 f.). This finally we pray, with the whole Church of God, "Our Father who art in heaven" (Matt. 6:9), both because by baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ, and we are often fed in his Church with his flesh and blood unto life eternal. Thereby, being strengthened, we are commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, according to the precept of Paul.

Hope this helps.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I guess the main thing I'm worried about is what God has chosen for me. Am I predestined to Hell or Heaven?

This morning, I read a sermon by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger on Article Twenty-nine of the Belgic Confession, and I think the Belgic Confession gives a succint summary of the Scriptural teaching on this:

Those who are of the church may be recognized by the marks of Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ the only Saviour,9 flee from sin and pursue righteousness,10 love the true God and their neighbour11 without turning to the right or left, and crucify their flesh and its works.12 Although great weakness remains in them, they fight against it by the Spirit all the days of their life.13 They appeal constantly to the blood, suffering, death, and obedience of Jesus Christ, in whom they have forgiveness of their sins through faith in Him.14​

Notes:
9 Jn 1:12; 1 Jn 4:2 10Rom 6:2; Php 3:12 111 Jn 4:19-21 12Gal
5:24 13Rom 7:15; Gal 5:17 14Rom 7:24-25; 1 Jn 1:7-9​

Does that describe you?​

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[GodsElect]

I guess the main thing I'm worried about is what God has chosen for me. Am I predestined to Hell or Heaven?

Hello, MP, and welcome. First, let me tell you I think that you have great questions and I recommend that you study more about the reformed position. It is a very real and biblical view of what scripture is teaching. The thing that I have come to love about it is that it cuts through the modern day church and it's "gimmicks" to get people to come and worship, and brings the importance of PRECISE truth from a PRECISE God. It doesn't need gimmicks or persuasion from other recources other than and soley from the word of God. I believe that in the midst of the many many false doctrines out there, Calvinist (reformed) teaching is the most solid and biblically based view there is.

With that being said, First, I wanted to post to you a quote from a passage in J. C. Ryle's book on practical religion, and that you may ask yourself these questions about the reality of your religion.

From​

PRACTICAL RELIGION​

By J.C. Ryle © 1878​

Chapter 3: Reality

Some tests by which we may try the reality of our religion:

1.Your religion, if it is real, must be in your heart. It must hold the reins. It must sway the affections. It must lead the will. It must direct the tastes. It must influence choices and decisions. It must fill the deepest, lowest, inmost seat in your soul. Is this your religion?

2.Do you look upon sin as the cause of all sorrow and unhappiness, strife, wars, quarrels, contentions, sickness, and death? The thing which will ruin us eternally? Are these your feelings about sin? Is this your religion?

3.Do you glory in Christ as your Redeemer, Deliverer, Priest, Friend, and King? Are you confident in Him? Do you love Him? Do you find your comfort and delight in Him? Is He the food, light, life, and peace of your soul? Do you know anything of feelings like these toward Jesus?

4.Does it produce repentance, faith, hope, charity, humility, spirituality, kind temper, self-denial, unselfishness, forgivingness, temperance, truthfulness, brotherly kindness, patience, and forbearance? Is this your religion?

5.Is the Lord’s Day (for you) a sweet foretaste of the rest to come in heaven? Regarding public prayer and praise and the public preaching of God’s Word, and the administration of the Lord’s Supper . . . are these things in which you take pleasure and could not live happily without? Do you find it essential to your comfort to read the Bible regularly in private, and to speak to God in prayer? Are the means of grace as necessary to your soul as meat and drink are to your body? Is this your religion?

Does this describe your religion?

We may not know whether you are an elect child of God or not, but as scripture tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and tembling...

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

And we do not know who the elect children of God are but we are commanded to preach the gospel to ALL because we do not how the Spirit will work through our words to bring the sheep back to the fold. And what a great assurance it is to know that our Lord will not fail in doing this through whatever means as He so chooses...

Our Lord Jesus' words...

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

I emphasize that He WILL do this and this is His declaration to His people. This is the awsome Lord that calvinists proclaim! That He will not fall short of what He says He WILL do and that His promises are NOT slack.

Did you hear His voice and heed the call of your Master?

Could you resist the call of the Gospel?

My hope is that you will be assured in the finished work of Jesus Christ for the salvation of your soul. And that you may turn to this place and a solid biblical foundational church that you can be brought to the light of the truth of gospel in a very false and darkend world.

I hope you will ask many many more questions as my calvinist brothers and I are willing to answer for you with biblically sound answers, for the glory of God alone and for your edification.

Talk to you soon. GE

 

[heymikey80]

1. I sort of understand the doctrine of Unconditional Election, but I am wondering, how do I know if I am predestined to salvation?

As others have pointed out, you know you are saved by your reliance (== your faith) in Jesus Christ. Predestination is the process, it is not the condition of salvation.

You're certainly furthered in your assurance of your salvation by what you do. You become aware that you know accurately this Jesus you depend on, because you find you're doing what Jesus commands. (cf 1 Jn 2:3). However, this awareness doesn't save you. Faith alone saves. Given time and opportunity faith indeed issues in submission to Jesus' commands, working the works of God. "Faith alone saves. The faith that saves is not alone."

Also, doesn't it seem futile to evangelize if some people are destined to Hell anyways?

Not in the slightest. Think of it this way: "Doesn't it seem futile to walk around thinking and acting the way your family thinks and has trained you, and discovering fellow members of your thereby, since other people aren't in your family, anyways? And what if your family actually offers the best any world has to offer -- what if your Father is actually the axis around which the whole universe spins?"

What we're doing is following the Spirit of God, because we're born of the Spirit of God. We're spiritual because He's spiritual. We proclaim His kingship, because it's the truth. Finding and helping and redeeming other sons of God is what we do in following the Spirit. We're part of the rescue. We're carriers of the Father's family robes, His family ring, rushing to the side of those God has rushed ahead to welcome home.

It's so critical a task, to help communicate the Father's love and dedication to His child, it's tough to understand why it would be considered futile.

2. On what basis are people destined to Hell?

They are predestined to Hell because they can't satisfy the righteous requirements of the Law. And note: everyone has this same destiny. Dual predestination condemns all to one horrific destiny, based on our own works; and yet saves some on a different basis: the works of Christ.

Since it is not a matter of virtue, merit, or faith, why would anyone be unconditionally elected to eternal damnation?

I'm sorry, this is a mistake. The criteria are indeed a matter of virtue, merit, and faith: they're a matter of the lack of virtue, merit, or faith -- the absence of all of which constitutes an offense against the God of the universe, and eternal condemnation. This is exactly why people are condemned to Hell.

 

[ModernProtestant]

Thank you for the replies! Your answers were very insightful.