Make-up: What do Orthodox say?

[Vasya Davidovich]

I was looking for some thoughts on make-up:
Female opinions, male opinions, theological assertions, rebuttals, canons, etc.

First, though, I thought I would quote from At the Corner of East and Now, by Frederica Mathewes-Green:

According to the third-century African bishop St. Cyprian of Carthage, redesigning the body meant rejecting the beauty God had created in his own image. What is natural is from God, and what artificially distorts this nature comes from the one who would distort our souls: "Does anyone dare to alter and to change what God has made? They are laying hands on God when they try to re-form that which He formed, and to transfigure it, not knowing that everything which comes into being is God's work, and everything that is changed is the devil's."
St. Cyprian even imagines God failing to recognize his children if they arrive at his doorstep forcibly changed. "This is not my work, nor is this our image. You have polluted your skin with a false medicament, you have changed your hair with an adulterous color, your face is violently taken possession of by a lie, your figure is corrupted, your countenance is another's. You cannot see God, since your eyes are not those which God made."

Highlighting is mine.

Again, thoughts?

 

[Maximus]

Women generally look better with a little bit of make-up here and there.

I'm not sure about the theology of it all, but it seems harmless to me, in moderation.

I'm a little worried about that quote from St. Cyprian, though.

I have a tattoo of a three-bar cross inside a budded cross on my right shoulder.

I had the flu and a fever when I got the tattoo.

I wasn't exactly thinking prudently.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Everything is forgiveable, Maximus. It just seems to me that first one needs to acknowledge it as a sin.

I also have a tattoo (also a budded cross). I have no idea what I was thinking - I too plead illness. However, my understanding is that getting this tattoo was wrong, no matter the extenuating circumstances. And that though there are consequences (ie. I cannot become a priest unless by special dispensation), God forgives us all our idiocies.

I guess my question is whether make-up falls into the category of falling short of God's desire and design - whether it, like tattoos, is a sin before God.

 

[MariaRegina]

Wearing makeup can lead to vanity as the woman has to look in the mirror to put the lipstick on correctly, etc.. In monasteries, there are no mirrors for that reason.

 

[33ad]

My wife hardly uses make-up - I like her the way she is, but I do help her cover the gray in her hair. She was born with brown hair, and I help her keep it that way. I don't think it's vanity. She wants to look good for me, and that's Orthodox as far as I'm concerned.

WRT make-up in general, IMHO, if you can see it, it's too much. That's why it's called "make-up". Making up for what is perhaps lost with age, not being something you never were.

Kolya

 

[Wiffey]

As for tattoos...I've got 5 (pre-Orthodox)...VERY hard to get rid of. The 2 that are most conspicuous are being treated with lasers in order to remove them. (I am tired of practically wearing burkas in order to hide them, and they would scandalize the ladies at church...and my M-I-L!) But it is EXPENSIVE, so I'll be living with the others, I think. My feeling is that God would rather have me spend the money in a more productive way...


As for make-up...

LOL I'm Cuban, raised in Miami where every female over the age of 11 would not think to leave the house without it. I've lived in New England since 1986, so I don't wear quite so much anymore, but I still feel slightly naked without it. No harm unless I cake it on like a drag queen (or like Univision)! Moderation in all things is good...

The only thing I've heard about this in church is a request from our priest to NOT wear lipstick to Liturgy. It gets all over the icons and leaves an oily film in the Chalice.

 

[Eusebios]

With regards to make-up, I believe that like everything else, moderation is the key. My wife uses very little, enough I would say to highlight her natural beauty.
I am curious about the attitude I am seeing expressed with regard to tatoo's however. I also have a Greek Cross on my right shoulder, and for me it is not a cause for shame, nor do I consider it to be sinful. Can someone please enlighten me as to why you would find it so?
In Xp,
Eusebios.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

With regards to make-up, I believe that like everything else, moderation is the key. My wife uses very little, enough I would say to highlight her natural beauty.
I am curious about the attitude I am seeing expressed with regard to tatoo's however. I also have a Greek Cross on my right shoulder, and for me it is not a cause for shame, nor do I consider it to be sinful. Can someone please enlighten me as to why you would find it so?
In Xp,
Eusebios.

I think there's a canon against it, but I'm not sure.

 

[Khaleas]

I wear very little make up to begin with (mainly mascara and a bit of powder) and I don't think it's attractive to wear full war paint to church (but shhhh, don't tell some of our Russian ladies that... some wear more than any drag queen I've seen). What I have more of an issue with are the hats... wide brimmed hats. Try to kiss an icon or a cross with those things on...

I have a tattoo on my chest of two dolphins in a circle. The only thing they give me trouble with is shopping for dresses (I try to hide them most of the time) and esp with wedding dresses (I definitely don't want a strapless to begin with but they still give me a bit of an issue).

In the end I don't think we have to judge people on their looks, but I do prefer that I don't have to kiss someone elses lipstick off an icon.

As my husband put it, Orthodox must have the best immunity since they all go and kiss on the same spot and germs.

 

[countrymouse33ad]

The early Church Fathers also said that women should be veiled - it was not only a matter of covering the hair, but also obscuring the face. To my knowledge, veiling is not practiced anywhere in the Church.

IMO, it is about the spirit of the law, not the letter. The Fathers said that women painted their faces and dyed their hair to be attractive to men, to appear younger, to call attention to themselves. Of course, there are women who do that, and some of them go to church. My friends and I wear just enough makeup, when we do wear it, to feel completely dressed. If I go out dressed up but without any makeup, I look like I forgot to do anything about my face. I am not interested in attracting a man (and wouldn't, anyway, at my age!); one is enough! (Why in the world would I want to have to please more than one? Sheesh! No offense guys. Some women do, though; go figure.)

 

[countrymouse33ad]

As my husband put it, Orthodox must have the best immunity since they all go and kiss on the same spot and germs.

'Tis true! I know this is not on topic, sorry, but I have been amazed. If anybody should have been getting sick kissing icons, it should be me, since in the past I caught every germ that hubby and the kids brought home. I have had the flu and colds (often with bronchitis) and a stomach virus every year for the last fourteen years, and was prone to it all my life. I have now been kissing icons for a year, and I have only had one mild summer cold during that time. And in our church, the kids line up for the Eucharist first. Since the Dormition Feast I've been receiving the Eucharist from the community spoon, after the snotty-nosed kids and most of the other adults, with no ill effect.

To me, that's a miracle.

[/off topic]

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I think when reading the Fathers on modesty and dress for women, we need to take in to consideration the times that they lived in. I wear minimal makeup (sheer lipgloss and a little eyeliner), I veil for services and I dress modestly (3/4 sleeves or long, skirts that cover the knee; I rarely wear trousers). I think I am following the spirit of their writings and Holy Scripture, adapted to our times. Following the letter could be extreme:

"Let the woman observe this, further. Let her be entirely covered, unless she happens to be at home. For that style of dress is grave, and protects from being gazed at. And she will never fall, who puts before her eyes modesty, and her shawl; nor will she invite another to fall into sin by uncovering her face. For this is the wish of the Word, since it is becoming for her to pray veiled."

[Clement, The Instructor 3.12]

"For some, with their turbans and woollen bands, do not veil their head, but bind it up; protected, indeed, in front, but, where the head properly lies, bare. Others are to a certain extent covered over the region of the brain with linen coifs of small dimensions-I suppose for fear of pressing the head-and not reaching quite to the ears. If they are so weak in their hearing as not to be able to hear through a covering, I pity them. Let them know that the whole head constitutes "the woman." Its limits and boundaries reach as far as the place where the robe begins.

The region of the veil is co-extensive with the space covered by the hair when unbound; in order that the necks too may be encircled... Arabia's heathen females will be your judges, who cover not only the head, but the face also, so entirely, that they are content, with one eye free, to enjoy rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face. A female would rather see than be seen."

..Nothing is to Him dearer than humility; nothing more acceptable than modesty; nothing more offensive than "glory" and the study of men-pleasing. Let that, accordingly, be to you Scripture, and Nature, and Discipline, which you shall find to have been sanctioned by God; just as you are bidded to "examine all things, and diligently follow whatever is better."

It remains likewise that we turn to (the virgins) themselves, to induce them to accept these (suggestions) the more willingly. I pray you, be you mother, or sister, or virgin-daughter--let me address you according to the names proper to your years--veil your head: if a mother, for your sons' sakes; if a sister, for your brethren's sakes; if a daughter for your fathers' sakes. All ages are perilled in your person. Put on the panoply of modesty; surround yourself with the stockade of bashfulness; rear a rampart for your sex, which must neither allow your own eyes egress nor ingress to other people's. Wear the full garb of woman, to preserve the standing of virgin."

Tertullian on the Veiling of Virgins 3rd Century AD

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is God's sight is very precious. So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.

Quotation from RSV, I Pet. 3:1-6, emphasis mine.

Could the above quotation not serve as a code of adornment WRT make-up? I am interested in feedback.

 

[Prawnik]

The TAW consensus seems to be that makeup, hair-coloring, tatts, etc. are acceptable, according to the standards of the time and place. Interesting. What about wigs? IIRC, there is a canon forbidding women from wearing wigs. There might be one forbidding cosmetics, as well.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on cosmetics, except that I personally think that most women look better with little or no makeup. But that is just me, and that is far from being theology. Most women disagree with me.

Once we start debating whether dandruff shampoo is a "cosmetic" or a "medicine", we can see how easy it is to fall into legalism.

Incidentally, Louis XVI long resisted having a minor operation which would make sexual relations possible for him, on the grounds that that was how God had made him. That isn't related specifically to makeup, but it Louis' thinking draws on the same logic as used by Vasya in the OP.

 

[countrymouse33ad]

Once we start debating whether dandruff shampoo is a "cosmetic" or a "medicine", we can see how easy it is to fall into legalism.

So true! Reading your comment about wigs, I thought, "What about women undergoing chemotheraphy?"

I do think it depends on the reason.

 

[Prawnik]

Quotation from RSV, I Pet. 3:1-6, emphasis mine.

Could the above quotation not serve as a code of adornment WRT make-up? I am interested in feedback.

Some Orthoduck types forbid jewelry (at least on women, I didn't ask about the dudes) for this reason.

Someone here mentioned veils - Russian women, at least in the upper classes, were veiled and secluded until the end of the XVII Century. The Russian boyars probably took up this practice from the Tatars, however, and not Church canons.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

I thought of this one too:

I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.

Quotation from RSV, I Tim. 2:8-10, emphasis mine.

 

[Prawnik]

So true! Reading your comment about wigs, I thought, "What about women undergoing chemotheraphy?"

I do think it depends on the reason.

I suspect that at the time that canon was written, the "chemotherapy" available didn't necessarily involve hair loss, unless something like "eye of salamander, crushed and mixed with garlic and fennel-root, while praying the 15th Psalm backwards" makes your hair fall out.

I think it is interesting that most posters here are backing away from a legalistic reading of this particular canon.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

PS--During my last 2 years as a protestant, I never left my home with my head uncovered. Since this was based on my own interpretation of Scripture and Church history, I ditched it soon after becoming Orthodox in an effort to dethrone myself as pope. That said, I do miss veiling full time and the privacy it gave me. People, male and female, are attracted to my hair and I think it is a distraction for all involved. But I don't know if covering full time is right for me as an Orthodox Christian. I know, I know-- I need to ask my priest. Does anyone else here think about headcovering?

Monica

 

[Khaleas]

At my parish it's up to you if you wear a headcovering or pants. I generally wear pants if it's below 35-40 (depends on the wind here too) and I do not cover my head. And, I don't know if I find some of those lacy or chiffon pieces to be very covering. You can see straight thru them.

What do you think about woolen caps? Seems to be the headcovering of choice among some members in our parish. I'm not talking a nice one that looks dressy but a knitted one.

I feel very judgemental right now, forgive me, but one thing I don't feel bad for judging people for is the CELLPHONES!!! I mean come on, how hard is it to turn it off or turn it on silent. Yesterday we had three phones go off during DL and there is not that many of us there (I just either turn it off or leave it in the car). One older lady even got up and walked out to talk on the phone. We all agreed that we were gonna tackle her if she decided to take part in eucharist.