Make love....

[belladonic-haze]

I'd rather make believe and be sacharine sweet.....and act on it (which is not hypocritical btw....)...than say the words of Jesus but not live according to it...That *is* hypocritical.....

Who lives by the sword will die by the sword

 

[The Seeker]

I'd rather make believe and be sacharine sweet.....and act on it (which is not hypocritical btw....)...than say the words of Jesus but not live according to it...That *is* hypocritical.....

I'd rather live in the real world and actually achieve something positive than in a childish fantasy where everything will turn out alright for the good guys in the end.

But maybe that's just me

 

[Jetgirl]

I'd rather make believe and be sacharine sweet.....and act on it (which is not hypocritical btw....)...than say the words of Jesus but not live according to it...That *is* hypocritical.....

You know, this strikes me as comperable to refusing to wear a seat belt because since you're a good driver there can't possibly be bad drivers out there.

Who lives by the sword will die by the sword

What this oft-quoted bit fails to mention is that many many people who don't live by the sword have died under the swords of others as well.

 

[belladonic-haze]

You know, this strikes me as comperable to refusing to wear a seat belt because since you're a good driver there can't possibly be bad drivers out there.

I do wear a seat belt and I don't have a drivers license... ...so I do not drive....

What this oft-quoted bit fails to mention is that many many people who don't live by the sword have died under the swords of others as well.

Yes, true.....because if you use violence the innocent will suffer the most! That is one hell of a reason to refuse to use violence....

 

[belladonic-haze]

I'd rather live in the real world and actually achieve something positive than in a childish fantasy where everything will turn out alright for the good guys in the end.

But maybe that's just me

Never loose your dreams fantasies and ideals.....it kills the creativity of the mind

 

[kopilo]

You know, this strikes me as comperable to refusing to wear a seat belt because since you're a good driver there can't possibly be bad drivers out there.

I use a seat belt but I do not use bad driving. Unless you call using a seat belt apart of bad driving.

 

[kopilo]

I'd rather live in the real world and actually achieve something positive than in a childish fantasy where everything will turn out alright for the good guys in the end.

But maybe that's just me

To believe in a world of black and white (bad and good) is what a child does.

 

[The Seeker]

To believe in a world of black and white (bad and good) is what a child does.

You want some fries with that supersized strawman?

 

[The Seeker]

Never loose your dreams fantasies and ideals.....it kills the creativity of the mind

It is one thing to have an ideal, it is another to put that ideal before the realities that confront you. It is impossible to have a world absolutely free from violence, there will always be those who seek to oppress and harm others, the only sensible response is to fight back against them. If you stand by and let evil things happen, then you are responsible for the consequences.

 

[kopilo]

You want some fries with that supersized strawman?

You can give me the fries, whilst you entertain me with trying to prove that is a strawman.

Or I could tell you that was my way of saying that I agree, with the post I was responding to.

Your choice, but I'm keeping the fries.

 

[kopilo]

"First step to creativity is to believe everything is possible" - anon

First step in reaching any dream is to believe it is possible.

 

[The Seeker]

You can give me the fries, whilst you entertain me with trying to prove that is a strawman.

Or I could tell you that was my way of saying that I agree, with the post I was responding to.

Your choice, but I'm keeping the fries.

My bad, salt?

 

[kopilo]

My bad, salt?

hahaha it's all good, we can share the fries, so it doesn't bother me if they are left unsalted or not.

 

[belladonic-haze]

It is one thing to have an ideal, it is another to put that ideal before the realities that confront you. It is impossible to have a world absolutely free from violence, there will always be those who seek to oppress and harm others, the only sensible response is to fight back against them. If you stand by and let evil things happen, then you are responsible for the consequences.

You just don't get it...LOL

I never said that you should let evil happen! I do not want evil to happen. I have been scarred for life by evil! I was raped two times and almost raped by three grown men....do not say I let evil happen. I won't let it happen again. I do know that I can not fight back by using violence. I know the names of these men, all I need is revenge.....violence if you please to end evil (They are evil)....a gun would do the trick

But why fight violence with violence. Why lower myself to the level of the rapists? Why act upon the pain I feel? Will it make the world better? Maybe for a moment.....maybe a month, two years...but hey guess what rape happens every few seconds......

So, instead of spreading violence like oil on water, I want to spread love, respect and compassion It 's much better for the environment, don't you think?

How can I live in a world and have ideals yet not act on them?

Matthew 5 and 6
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Why read this words and let them slide? I believe in these words of Jesus. I wish I could tell the whole world that only this way we achieve world peace. Don't you want to live in a world like that? If you want it, you have to start, today, in your home.

No one says you can not defend yourself. But with violence? Is that the answer? Of course a mother will attack the attacker of her child...but will her pain be less if she kills him? Will the child live without scars? Will the child be brought to life again?

Why give the agressor what they want?

 

[B®ent]

In my heart and mind I can not think of any reason to kill......Why kill a living being?

Your pacifism would have resulted in a long-term NAZI Europe, with millions more Jews put to the slaughter, and a Japanese dictatorship controlling the Pacific islands. Do you consider this a good thing? Your pacifism also means if a man was about to rape and murder your children, you would allow it to happen - Correct? If I am not correct, please explain why. As I understand it, pacifism means NO killing, whatsoever.

See, pacifism is a nice label, but it is not practical. Evil men prevail when good men do nothing, to loosely quote the great Edmund Burke.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I do know that I can not fight back by using violence. I know the names of these men, all I need is revenge.....violence if you please to end evil (They are evil)....a gun would do the trick

There is a moral difference between self-defense and revenge. I think we shouldn't confuse these two issues. I think you have a moral right to use violence in self-defence, but I would not advocate that you seek revenge with vigilante justice after the danger is over.

BTW, I want world peace as much as you do, but I think self-defense is a necessary part of the path there.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Your pacifism would have resulted in a long-term NAZI Europe, with millions more Jews put to the slaughter, and a Japanese dictatorship controlling the Pacific islands. Do you consider this a good thing? Your pacifism also means if a man was about to rape and murder your children, you would allow it to happen - Correct? If I am not correct, please explain why. As I understand it, pacifism means NO killing, whatsoever.

See, pacifism is a nice label, but it is not practical. Evil men prevail when good men do nothing, to loosely quote the great Edmund Burke.

Ahem, I never said you can not defend yourself, but does it need to be violent? Explain to me why the violent way is the only way? And if you really read my last post, you see that I said I understand if a mother defends her child, but is acting with violence the only way? You say correct, but I will not watch and see how someone gets killed or murdered? where did you get that idea. I rather be killed myself than let my loved ones get hurt.....

Maybe I will use violence in rage...I am not perfect. But I never did, and I am proud that I haven't lowered myself to the level of my rapists..... And I do not kill a fly, I just can not do it. Am I wrong for being that way? Cause you make me all think I am wrong.......

And Pacifism is pratical, it just takes longer.

My dad fought in WW2...so do not tell me what happened in WW2. I know exactly what happened.....

I have a quote for you: "If you would know the soldier of the enemy personal, you would not kill him..." MY DAD!

I am talking about war as well. Everybody talks about personal harm.....but what about war. WW2 was ended, but did it bring peace? NO....

And how do you know how you react in a personal situation. most people don't do squat. I was almost raped in brought daylight by three adult men. I screamed for help...and the appartment building was right next to that doomed spot. NOBDODY did anything. I rather respect a human being that tries to help somebody in a none violent way, then those who say they will use violence to safe someone, but do not do anything when they don't know the attacked person!

End rant!

 

[Eudaimonist]

Ahem, I never said you can not defend yourself, but does it need to be violent? Explain to me why the violent way is the only way?

Violence isn't the only way in all situations, but it may be the only way in some of them. If you wish to defend a good value, such an innocent person's life, the defensive use of violence may be required.

Maybe I will use violence in rage...I am not perfect. But I never did, and I am proud that I haven't lowered myself to the level of my rapists.....

You are not immoral to use violence in self-defense. You aren't lowering yourself to their level. The morality of violence is a contextual matter. Violence isn't intrinsically evil.

 

[kopilo]

"the day we do not need lawful violence is the day we do not need any violence."
thoughts?

 

[belladonic-haze]

Let me reply with two quotes I love......

Violence is the first refuge of the violent. Aaron Allston

You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. Noam Chomsky