Make love....

[kopilo]

Oh really?

I was picked on by this one girl over the years in escalating fashion. She'd wait for me outside the school and push me down or yank my hair. Before too long I was getting fairly seriously beat up by her and her friends on a weekly basis.

If I told on them I just got jumped more often. I tried being friendly, reasonable, avoiding them (which meant I had to hide in a building and sneak out after they left campus after school) and all the other cutesy things grownups tell you to do. Didn't work. They didn't want to be friends, they just wanted to beat me up and laugh at me.

I finally got totally fed up one day when I had the flu, had a fever and had been throwing up, and couldn't run away, and punched the one girl right in the face.

They never bothered me again.

It's just not fun to pick on someone who might dish it out right back.

Conflict issue solved.

Well telling on someone isn't exactly being assertive, as I said there a different ways to deal with different people, the act of you punching may have actually knocked some sense into her, but on the other hand there may have been other factors (eg her parents asking why the heack she has a black eye or whatever).

The using assertive part comes from my time spent in rotary, listening to lots of different speakers about conflict control, then applying that in my own life.. took me about two months to bring some bullies down to size..

 

[Garnet2727]

Surely you have heard the "starfish washed upon a beach" story, maybe it is a utopian dream but we will never come close if we do not show by example ourselves or teach from the grass roots up.

Maybe you should take a vist to Japan.. not saying that Japan has the issue solved by any means of the imagination, but from all the people I know who have been there, they find the people very peaceful. My sister also works as a teacher over there, so she sees people of all ages, backgrounds etc.

Yes, I've read the story and it is a fine ideal.

I would love to go to Japan to visit. Maybe someday.

Nevertheless, they are not free from violence or terrorism. When was the last attack on a subway there using nerve gas or some such? It was from an extremist group...kind of like a schoolyard bully.

 

[Garnet2727]

You do not need to woo them...I was exaggerating.

But if we try to stop the "schoolyard bully" with violence the violence will be returned by more violence....and well, more violence will result in even more violence until we throw weapons of mass destruction at each other.....Is man kind that inhumane? Is that the world we want to live in?

I realize that you were exaggerating now, sorry.

However, as Eudamonist said, not always. I'm not being a proponent here for violence always being the solution. I've worked in the criminal justice system and have a lot of experience with talking violent or emotionally upset people down. What I am saying is that violence is sometimes the solution, and the only possible one.

I remember in a previous response on this thread you said something like if someone was armed and in your house and threatening your family, you would throw yourself in front of your children.

But then what happens? You are wounded, possibly dead, and your children are defenseless. Then what? Now they have no one to protect them. If an armed offender has entered your house and killed you, do you think that person will just stop with you? I don't think so. Now a more direct path is opened to those you love.

If someone breaks into my house, armed, well, may all the forgotten gods help him because if he manages to get through me, he'll have to deal with my husband. I have no compunction about killing an armed intruder and I have the means. (Further, this affiant sayeth not about means.)

 

[Garnet2727]

Well telling on someone isn't exactly being assertive, as I said there a different ways to deal with different people, the act of you punching may have actually knocked some sense into her, but on the other hand there may have been other factors (eg her parents asking why the heack she has a black eye or whatever).

The using assertive part comes from my time spent in rotary, listening to lots of different speakers about conflict control, then applying that in my own life.. took me about two months to bring some bullies down to size..

When a child is being bullied, telling adults is exactly what that child is supposed to do. One cannot expect children to have the resources of an adult. It sounds to me that Jet did everything she could to avoid conflict given her resources at the time.

I've have a lot of training in diffusing hostility as well and I've used it extensively. However, I still maintain that sometimes it just isn't practical.

 

[kopilo]

Nevertheless, they are not free from violence or terrorism. When was the last attack on a subway there using nerve gas or some such? It was from an extremist group...kind of like a schoolyard bully.

If memory serves me correctly it was done by religious cultist, similar to the ones who gassed themselves in Russhia, and the attack on the japanese sub/rail-way I think it happend in 1995.

Personally I would hope the school yard bully would not go around spreading such religious propaganda.

There is a link to an artical on the attack I am refering to here: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10163

 

[kopilo]

When a child is being bullied, telling adults is exactly what that child is supposed to do. One cannot expect children to have the resources of an adult. It sounds to me that Jet did everything she could to avoid conflict given her resources at the time.

I've have a lot of training in diffusing hostility as well and I've used it extensively. However, I still maintain that sometimes it just isn't practical.

I didn't say Jetgirl did not do everything that she could have.

Well being a child especially at a young age (because I was diagnosed/had with severe dyslexia) I was picked on a lot, changed schools three times, yarda yarda yarda. From where I have succeded, I remember that you have to first understand the bully, what kind they are, etc, then depending on what kind of bully they are depends on how to respond. eg, if a bully wants attention, fighting them will make things worse, especially in the school yard.

Telling an adult, yes tell your parents or someone who understands bulling, but at the end of the day the bully picks on you not anyone you tell, so you have to deal with them yourself.

Bare in mind that some bullies won't stop being bullies until their brain matures past a 3 year olds.

However this is just life experience I do not have any psychology reports to back any of what I am saying up.

 

[Garnet2727]

If memory serves me correctly it was done by religious cultist, similar to the ones who gassed themselves in Russhia, and the attack on the japanese sub/rail-way I think it happend in 1995.

Personally I would hope the school yard bully would not go around spreading such religious propaganda.

There is a link to an artical on the attack I am refering to here: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10163

Yes, that's the attack I'm referring to. The point is that even in a peaceful country like Japan, there are extremists who promote and commit violence. As far as I know, there is no utopia on this planet.

The schoolyard bully is an analogy. I use it to point out that there are always some people who will commit violence. And this is shown by the attack in Japan.

As for those who spread religious propaganda, some of them are violent. Some are not, but are annoying and invasive. Shortly after I moved to Alabama, I had to get an order of protection against a street preacher who was following me and screaming. He even showed up at my apartment building. That is one situation where violence on my part was not called for. I handled by using an available legal remedy. An appropriate response, I think.

 

[Garnet2727]

I didn't say Jetgirl did not do everything that she could have.

Well being a child especially at a young age (because I was diagnosed/had with severe dyslexia) I was picked on a lot, changed schools three times, yarda yarda yarda. From where I have succeded, I remember that you have to first understand the bully, what kind they are, etc, then depending on what kind of bully they are depends on how to respond. eg, if a bully wants attention, fighting them will make things worse, especially in the school yard.

Telling an adult, yes tell your parents or someone who understands bulling, but at the end of the day the bully picks on you not anyone you tell, so you have to deal with them yourself.

Bare in mind that some bullies won't stop being bullies until their brain matures past a 3 year olds.

However this is just life experience I do not have any psychology reports to back any of what I am saying up.

Sorry, but I meant the bully as an analogy. I did not intend to delve into the psychology of bullies. The point I'm trying to make, and I guess badly, is that some people are violent. And there are some situations where violence in return is the only solution.

 

[kopilo]

Sorry, but I meant the bully as an analogy. I did not intend to delve into the psychology of bullies. The point I'm trying to make, and I guess badly, is that some people are violent. And there are some situations where violence in return is the only solution.

(sorry for diving into the psychology of bullies lol)
Ahh indeed I was trying to do some research on this earlier today,
to find how many situations there are and what type of situations occur when violence is called for, all I got was what "triggers" some people into violent behaviour.

 

[Higher]

Non-Violence liberated Estonia, non violence ended the samurai wars.

War stopped the holocost, (in fact bad timing in a war could also be the contributing measure). Anyway a couple of a-bombs was the way the Japanese were completely and utterly stopped.

Did Martin Luther King use violence? sigh, there are examples of non-violence and violent meathods in "stopping" situations all through out history, if you want to use them, then you have to analyse the concequences for all the options in all the cases you look at.

MLK: Does Racism still exist? Not that violence would've solved anything in this situation, though.

Estonia was liberated at the end of the Cold War- a period where MILLIONS died over an idea. Not that violence would've done more good in this case (Directly), but the Cold War was a very violent period. I know nothing of these Samurai Wars you speak of, but the Japanese have been killing eachother for centuries- it took Nuclear weapons to make them a relatively peaceful nation.

Violence isn't always the answer, but some times it's the only way.

Did violence bring world peace?

Is there such a thing as world peace?

 

[kopilo]

Yes, that's the attack I'm referring to. The point is that even in a peaceful country like Japan, there are extremists who promote and commit violence. As far as I know, there is no utopia on this planet.

Indeed no country is a utopia.

The schoolyard bully is an analogy. I use it to point out that there are always some people who will commit violence. And this is shown by the attack in Japan.

Of course people do not change that much over country boundaries (you could also mention the yakusa) but the visible amount of it in the lives of everyday citizens seems less then in other countries.

As for those who spread religious propaganda, some of them are violent. Some are not, but are annoying and invasive. Shortly after I moved to Alabama, I had to get an order of protection against a street preacher who was following me and screaming. He even showed up at my apartment building. That is one situation where violence on my part was not called for. I handled by using an available legal remedy. An appropriate response, I think.

unfortunate to have that experience but nice work.

 

[Garnet2727]

Indeed no country is a utopia.
Of course people do not change that much over country boundaries (you could also mention the yakusa) but the visible amount of it in the lives of everyday citizens seems less then in other countries.


unfortunate to have that experience but nice work.

I agree. Some countries are indeed more peaceful and it would benefit us, I think, to look at why and to see what we can emulate. What is "yakusa?"

Thanks for the compliment.

 

[kopilo]

MLK: Does Racism still exist? Not that violence would've solved anything in this situation, though.

Estonia was liberated at the end of the Cold War- a period where MILLIONS died over an idea. Not that violence would've done more good in this case (Directly), but the Cold War was a very violent period.

Estonia has been liberated many of times, in the cold war there was no attacks because it was an arms race..
What I actually meant to say was their independance (also has happened many of times), in specific the "song festival".

I know nothing of these Samurai Wars you speak of, but the Japanese have been killing eachother for centuries- it took Nuclear weapons to make them a relatively peaceful nation.

The last shogun united Japan, he made ever samurai visit his castle or him (can't remember which one it is) every two years so they had no time to fight. Also Japan had a major period where it delved into the arts because there was no fighting and Japan was closed off from the world, from this period came Kabuki, japanese flower arraging, oragami, etc..

As a nation unto itself it was very peaceful for a rather long time. The most famous shogun (sorry can't remember his name) also made Tokyo the captial of Japan

Is there such a thing as world peace?

Yes it exists in the dreams of those who believe it will come to pass.

 

[kopilo]

I agree. Some countries are indeed more peaceful and it would benefit us, I think, to look at why and to see what we can emulate. What is "yakusa?"

Thanks for the compliment.

Firstly your welcome.

Secondly the yakusa is the "japanese marfia", yakusa are characterised by have fingers or bits of fingers missing, as when they do not complete a job they have to cut off apart of their finger.

No one messes with them because if you upset one then you may not see tomorrow.

 

[kopilo]

I think the place where violence may never be taken away is in the case of lawful violence/law enforcement. Also in the case of BDSM.

However this does not mean that citizens may not reach a point where they do not need to make civil arrests (just an anology).

I do not believe we need to remove all violence to have a positive world harmony either. Also having law enforcement does not generally start wars, nor should it be a reason to stop peace between all countries.

 

[Jetgirl]

Is there such a thing as world peace?

If there were, would we really want it?

We might have "peace" if everyone was welded into little metal boxs and fed through tubes and babies were produced ex vitro by signed contract.

We might have "peace" if there were no male humans on the planet, or no humans at all.

If you guys ever find a djinn in a bottle, for god's sake, think of the above crazy examples and don't ever wish for world peace, we might get it.

 

[Eudaimonist]

If you guys ever find a djinn in a bottle, for god's sake, think of the above crazy examples and don't ever wish for world peace, we might get it.

Well, there are two more wishes.

 

[Garnet2727]

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Firstly your welcome.

Secondly the yakusa is the "japanese marfia", yakusa are characterised by have fingers or bits of fingers missing, as when they do not complete a job they have to cut off apart of their finger.

No one messes with them because if you upset one then you may not see tomorrow.

Thanks for the info. I did a little reading. Quite a nasty group.

 

[RenHoek]

But you can fight back in a peaceful way. It takes so much longer. The road is more difficult and might take several decades to achieve freedom again. But it is the only way to make others see the beauty of it.....

You assume they CAN see the beauty in it. Some hearts are hard or hardened. I will throw Hitler out there. There was no talking to him. He had to be destroyed.

Like when someone hits you and you do not fight back.......Is that a fight?

Nope, it is a butt whoppin’ if you don’t run or fight back

but isn't a world filled with peace so much more beautiful? Or am I a dreamer?

Both.

 

[The Seeker]

We might have "peace" if there were no male humans on the planet, or no humans at all.

Why no male humans? Women have started wars too, you know