LDS Make a list of all your LDS doctrines, you will not find that combo in the Early Church Fathers, Wh

[Daniel Marsh]

"The word "water" was often used by the Jewssymbolically, especially in expressing grief, i.e., tears (Jer. ix. 1, 18; Ps. cxix. 136). A misfortune of great magnitude, the full extent of which it seemed impossible to fathom, was likened to water (Lam. iii. 54; Ps. lxix. 2, cxxiv. 4-5), while the constant flow and unrest of water were symbolic of numerous descendants (Num. xxiv. 7). The forgiveness of sins and their complete remission were typified by sprinkling with clean water (Ezek. xxxvi. 25); and in Jer. ii. 13 God is compared to a fountain of living waters. It was customary in the Talmudic period, moreover, to use "water" symbolically for the divine teachings (see Mek., Beshallaḥ, Wayassa', 1); so that in several passages the term "water" is used without any amplification whatever (comp. Ḥag. 3a; B. M. 84b; Hor. 14a; Ab. i. 2)." WATER - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Ezekiel 36:25-26 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

The text above clearly describes being born again in the Holy Spirit.

in contrast for your edification,

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Zechariah 7:12
Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts.

Mark 3:5
And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Romans 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Numbers 8:5-7 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

5 The Lord said to Moses, 6 “Separate the Levites from the other Israelites. Make these Levites clean. 7 This is what you should do to make them clean: Sprinkle the special water from the sin offering on them. This water will make them clean. Then they must shave their bodies and wash their clothes. This will make their bodies clean.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Didatche has confirmed that the form of baptism, 70 years after Jesus has already been compromised by the church fathers. And if a major event like baptism can be changed, smaller doctrines could be changed easily, meaning that within 70 years of Christ, the apostasy was starting to take its toll on the church.

I

No such compromise. The Didache simply doesn't agree with your church's beliefs; the Didache is a faithful example of Apostolic practice.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

Ezekiel 36:25 Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.

The verse above is one of their baptismal options by God himself.
The availability of water is the key. This is witnessed by archaeology, ancient near eastern texts related to the OT. Other books on early texts related to the Bible, History, Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles themselves. The reference to other purification rituals demonstrate that there was a wide range from Sprinkling to dunking.

Give me one other source except the Didache that tells us that we can use other methods to baptize other than complete immersion in water?

Your bible verse is OT. It does not count in the NT covenant. Lots of things changed between the OT covenant and the NT covenant.

We believe that even the simple act of baptism was changed for various reasons and I have only seen those changes talked about in the Didache, which I believe is a corruption of the ceremony, not to have been changed by whoever was witnessing these changes in the church. To me it is 1 sign of the apostasy. If you can just hilly nilly change the ceremony for baptism, you can even change the nature of God too. We believe that eventually happened too.

 

[Peter1000]

"The word "water" was often used by the Jewssymbolically, especially in expressing grief, i.e., tears (Jer. ix. 1, 18; Ps. cxix. 136). A misfortune of great magnitude, the full extent of which it seemed impossible to fathom, was likened to water (Lam. iii. 54; Ps. lxix. 2, cxxiv. 4-5), while the constant flow and unrest of water were symbolic of numerous descendants (Num. xxiv. 7). The forgiveness of sins and their complete remission were typified by sprinkling with clean water (Ezek. xxxvi. 25); and in Jer. ii. 13 God is compared to a fountain of living waters. It was customary in the Talmudic period, moreover, to use "water" symbolically for the divine teachings (see Mek., Beshallaḥ, Wayassa', 1); so that in several passages the term "water" is used without any amplification whatever (comp. Ḥag. 3a; B. M. 84b; Hor. 14a; Ab. i. 2)." WATER - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Ezekiel 36:25-26 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

The text above clearly describes being born again in the Holy Spirit.

in contrast for your edification,

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Zechariah 7:12
Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts.

Mark 3:5
And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Romans 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

You can go over this ad nauseam with your Ezekiel scripture and it will make no impression on me because of what I told you 2 other times before this.

If you can give me no other reasons for sprinkling other than Ezekiel or the Didache, then don't bother responding. Thank you.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Give me one other source except the Didache that tells us that we can use other methods to baptize other than complete immersion in water?

Your bible verse is OT. It does not count in the NT covenant. Lots of things changed between the OT covenant and the NT covenant.

We believe that even the simple act of baptism was changed for various reasons and I have only seen those changes talked about in the Didache, which I believe is a corruption of the ceremony, not to have been changed by whoever was witnessing these changes in the church. To me it is 1 sign of the apostasy. If you can just hilly nilly change the ceremony for baptism, you can even change the nature of God too. We believe that eventually happened too.

I already gave those which consisted of Church Fathers, Archaeology and Ancient Texts related to the Bible. Those are part the short chapter I posted.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Ezekiel is scripture and I gave many historical sources.

 

[Peter1000]

I already gave those which consisted of Church Fathers, Archaeology and Ancient Texts related to the Bible. Those are part the short chapter I posted.

OK, what church father said you can sprinkle baptize?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

OK, what church father said you can sprinkle baptize?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism - New Advent



www.newadvent.org › Catholic Encyclopedia › B


The minister of this sacrament is the priest, to whom it belongs to baptize, ...... yet in practice it is quite possible that the sprinkled water may not touch the skin.


CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism (Tertullian) - New Advent




www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church


Let no one say, Why then, are we, pray, baptized with the very waters which then ... Moreover, by carrying water around, and sprinkling it, they everywhere ...


Now washing may be done with water not only by immersion, but also by sprinkling or pouring. And, therefore, although it is safer to baptize by immersion, ...


CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism, Book VI (Augustine) - New Advent



www.newadvent.org › ... › On Baptism, Against the Donatists (Augustine)


But, as it has been said, it makes no difference to the holiness of baptism how much worse .... any difference in the efficacy of baptism by sprinkling or by immersion, "In this matter," he says, ...... <http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/14086.htm>.


CHURCH FATHERS: On the Baptism of Christ (Gregory ... - New Advent



www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church


For these things, and all that follow from them, the grace of Baptism secures and conveys to us. ..... And I will sprinkleclean water upon you, and you shall be cleansed: from all your filthiness, .... <http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2910.htm>.


CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle 75 (Cyprian of Carthage) - New Advent


www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church › Epistles (Cyprian of Carthage)


To Magnus, on Baptizing the Novatians, and Those Who Obtain Grace on a ... that that is a True Baptism Wherein One is Baptized by Sprinkling on a Sick-Bed, ...


SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The ministers by whom the ... - New Advent



www.newadvent.org › Summa Theologiae › Third Part


Is it essential that someone should raise the person baptizedfrom the sacred ... dipped or sprinkled the man together, they should be punished for baptizing in ...


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holy Water - New Advent

www.newadvent.org › Catholic Encyclopedia › H


As, in many cases, the water used for the Sacrament of Baptism was flowing ... to Christian churches where a clerk sprinkled the faithful as they came in and, for ...


CHURCH FATHERS: On Merit and the Forgiveness of ... - New Advent



www.newadvent.org/fathers/15013.htm


On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants (Book III) ...... a sprinkling of holiness arising out of the close ties of married life and children.

Believer's baptism is the Christian practice of baptism as this is understood by many ... Defenders of infant baptism have attempted to trace the practice to the New ..... of a body of water) over affusion (in which water or holy water is sprinkledor poured over the baptisand). .... Fathers, New advent . ... Bible.org". bible.org.

Searches related to new advent org sprinkle baptize

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm


CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle 75 (Cyprian of Carthage)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/050675.htm

To Magnus, on Baptizing the Novatians, and Those Who Obtain Grace on a ... that that is a True Baptism Wherein One is Baptized by Sprinkling on a Sick-Bed, ...

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The sacrament of Baptism (Tertia Pars, Q. 66)

www.newadvent.org/summa/4066.htm

Now washing may be done with water not only by immersion, but also by sprinkling or pouring. And, therefore, although it is safer to baptize by immersion, ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism (Tertullian)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0321.htm

Let no one say, Why then, are we, pray, baptized with the very waters which then ... Moreover, by carrying water around, and sprinkling it, they everywhere ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism, Book VI (Augustine)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/14086.htm

And so also in the epistle which he wrote to Magnus, when he was asked whether there was any difference in the efficacy of baptism by sprinkling or by ...

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holy Water

www.newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm

As, in many cases, the water used for the Sacrament of Baptism was flowing ... to Christian churches where a clerk sprinkled the faithful as they came in and, for ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Baptism of Christ (Gregory of Nyssa)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/2910.htm

For these things, and all that follow from them, the grace of Baptism secures and ..... And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be cleansed: from all ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle 69 (Cyprian of Carthage)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/050669.htm

To Januarius and Other Numidian Bishops, on Baptizing Heretics. ... the man who is baptized; because the Lord says by Ezekiel the prophet: Then will I sprinkle ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture 3 (Cyril of Jerusalem)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/310103.htm

Were buried therefore with Him by our baptism into death, etc. 1. Rejoice, you heavens, and let the earth be glad , for those who are to be sprinkled with hyssop , ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Oration 40 (Gregory Nazianzen)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/310240.htm

And now today let us discourse briefly concerning Baptism, and the benefits ..... the legal blood, more sacred than the ashes of the heifer sprinkling the unclean,

CHURCH FATHERS: On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the ...

www.newadvent.org/fathers/15013.htm

On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants (Book III) ...... a sprinklingof holiness arising out of the close ties of married life and children.

CHURCH FATHERS: Oration 39 (Gregory Nazianzen)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/310239.htm

The spiritual Baptism of water and the Holy Ghost given us by our Lord. ... with temporary sprinklings, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean; or do the ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Mysteries (St. Ambrose)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3405.htm

Exodus 15:10 You observe that even then holy baptism was prefigured in ..... on the chaste veil of innocence, of which the prophet said: You shall sprinkle me ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Hymns for Epiphany (Ephraim)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3704.htm

With chrism have you been sealed, in baptism you are perfected, in the flock you ..... The priests took up of the mire — and on the altar they sprinkled it — for its ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle of Barnabas

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0124.htm

And the boys that sprinkle are those that have proclaimed to us the remission of .... the Lord took any care to foreshadow the water [of baptism] and the cross.

CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

Christian baptism ... approach them with libations and burnt-offerings, also to sprinklethemselves; and they cause them also to wash themselves entirely, as they ...

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The remission of venial sin (Tertia Pars, Q. 87)

www.newadvent.org/summa/4087.htm

Are venial sins forgiven by the sprinkling of holy water, a bishop's blessing, the ... obtains the power of Baptism, wherefore it washes away all sin, both venial and ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 69 (Jerome)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001069.htm

If, said he, to marry a wife is not sinful, and if baptism forgives sins, all that is not ..... he says, from among the heathen...then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Holy Spirit, Book I (Ambrose)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/34021.htm

For John, though he did not baptize in the Spirit, nevertheless preached Christ ...... and the sprinkling the ashes of an heifer sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh, ..

CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture 16 (Cyril of Jerusalem)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/310116.htm

... and at the time of Holy Baptism is included with them in the Holy Trinity. ..... was said about Baptism; Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you , and the rest; ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On Repentance (Tertullian)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0320.htm

Moreover, a presumptuous confidence in baptism introduces all kind of vicious ... a man of so faithless repentance, one single sprinkling of any water whatever?

CHURCH FATHERS: Exposition on Psalm 51 (Augustine)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801051.htm

For we know both by the Baptism of Christ that sins are loosed, and that the .... You shall sprinkle me, he says, with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed Psalm 50:7.

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 16 on Hebrews (Chrysostom)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/240216.htm

Tell me then why is the book of the testament sprinkled, and also the people, except ... In this place blood and water show forth the same thing, for baptism is His ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3811.htm

Now when he came to the baptism of John his forerunner, lest the fact that the .... that sanctification by the Spirit takes place through the sprinkling of the blood of ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, Book IV ...

www.newadvent.org/fathers/15094.htm

To this praise they add also, that they say that Christ the Lord was sprinkled with no ... In the praise of the saints they conceal themselves, saying that baptism ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 2 on Matthew (Chrysostom)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/200102.htm

... the spirits of the just, the general assembly of the angels, the blood of sprinkling, .... Thus His baptism also was of the same kind, for it partook of the old, and it ...

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Resurrection of the Flesh (Tertullian)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0316.htm

Is it not by its means that it has a sprinkling of the divine power, there being ...... with Christ in baptism, and also raised again with Him through the faith of the ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 31 (Jerome)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001031.htm

... at the baptism of Christ. Matthew 3:16 But to give you, too, a sprinkling of pepper and to remind you of my former letter, I send you today this three-fold warning.

CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, I.30 (St. Irenaeus)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103130.htm

For they affirm that all things rushed towards and clung to that sprinkling of light, .... and prepared the baptism of repentance, and adopted Jesus beforehand, ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 265 (St. Basil)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3202265.htm

John 1:29 He preaches partial baptisms after the one baptism, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the Church which, through its faith in Christ, has not spot or ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Commonitorium (Vincent of Lerins)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3506.htm

The example of Pope Stephen in resisting the Iteration of Baptism. ...... They sprinkle it over, therefore, with the perfume of heavenly language, in order that one ...

CHURCH FATHERS: Nisibene Hymns (Ephraim)

www.newadvent.org/fathers/3702a.htm

It has been proclaimed, that that lowly blood which Noah sprinkled, wholly ... You might baptize and purify me, but that in them You might chasten me with fear.


And many more, NEW ADVENT: Search

 

[Ironhold]

Did you just copy and paste some website's search results and call it a day?

That... isn't helping.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Give me one other source except the Didache that tells us that we can use other methods to baptize other than complete immersion in water?

Your bible verse is OT. It does not count in the NT covenant. Lots of things changed between the OT covenant and the NT covenant.

We believe that even the simple act of baptism was changed for various reasons and I have only seen those changes talked about in the Didache, which I believe is a corruption of the ceremony, not to have been changed by whoever was witnessing these changes in the church. To me it is 1 sign of the apostasy. If you can just hilly nilly change the ceremony for baptism, you can even change the nature of God too. We believe that eventually happened too.

Why is it whenever you are corrected about the Didache you refuse to address the criticism?

What is wrong with what the Didache says that in the event of an emergency Baptism can be done with a little water? What if baptising the person would cause death? What if there is no living water around?

The Didache is not a corruption of the practice of Baptism, it is a reasonable rule to follow and you cannot demonstrate otherwise. Yes, baptism should be by full immersion preferably, but this cannot be absolute otherwise we would have to refuse Baptism to certain people.

It wasn't a willy nilly change.

 

[mmksparbud]

Wow, David, I thought you were just snarky to Mormons on this forum, but you just smashed another Christian. Good going.

If I lived in a glass house, I would not be throwing so many rocks.

Yah, well don't get overly excited. D.A.Wright is just stating the truth. Dan is making the rounds with this one! LOL! The only ones spared are the Catholics---so far. Quite frankly--it matters didley squat to me what the church fathers taught as they started going against scripture very early on. The bible is the test to go by---not church fathers.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Did you just copy and paste some website's search results and call it a day?

That... isn't helping.

I added And many more, NEW ADVENT: Search

Also, I answered several posts, look for Me: which I may have put inside someone's response.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Yah, well don't get overly excited. D.A.Wright is just stating the truth. Dan is making the rounds with this one! LOL! The only ones spared are the Catholics---so far. Quite frankly--it matters didley squat to me what the church fathers taught as they started going against scripture very early on. The bible is the test to go by---not church fathers.

Ezekiel 36:25-26 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

 

[mmksparbud]

Ezekiel 36:25-26 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

You will? Seems like you think you're able to do a lot .

 

[D.A. Wright]

Think about it friend, if the only writings from that period are Catholic, then that would mean the Catholic Church is the Original Church.

The first "early church father" who was an official Doctor of the Catholic Church was Hilary. He was born and died in the 4th century. Exactly what "period" are we talking about here.

 

[D.A. Wright]

Ezekiel 36:25 Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.

The verse above is one of their baptismal options by God himself.
The availability of water is the key. This is witnessed by archaeology, ancient near eastern texts related to the OT. Other books on early texts related to the Bible, History, Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles themselves. The reference to other purification rituals demonstrate that there was a wide range from Sprinkling to dunking.

Utter balderdash. I can't believe you're actually urging a single prooftext from Ezekiel to advance the validity of the method of Catholic baptism. The availability of water is key? My head hurts now.

You go on to reference anything and everything but the Bible, which uses the word "baptizo," which literally means to bury or submerge. Christ "came up out of the water." (Mark 1:10) (Thought I'd use the Gospel purported to be according to Peter, as dictated to his assistant, just for your benefit.) Young's Literal Translation says "immediately coming up from the water." The Greek (to which I rarely resort, if that tells you anything) uses the word transliterated "anabaino," ascend; to go up; mount; be borne up; spring up; climb up; grow up; rise up. The only thing left to add is jalapenos. Of the 28 translations listed for this verse on Biblehub.com, 25 use the word "up."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="D.A. Wright, post: 74203944, member: 421109"]Utter balderdash. I can't believe you're actually urging a single prooftext from Ezekiel to advance the validity of the method of Catholic baptism. The availability of water is key? My head hurts now.

You go on to reference anything and everything but the Bible, which uses the word "baptizo," which literally means to bury or submerge. Christ "came up out of the water." (Mark 1:10) (Thought I'd use the Gospel purported to be according to Peter, as dictated to his assistant, just for your benefit.) Young's Literal Translation says "immediately coming up from the water." The Greek (to which I rarely resort, if that tells you anything) uses the word transliterated "anabaino," ascend; to go up; mount; be borne up; spring up; climb up; grow up; rise up. The only thing left to add is jalapenos. Of the 28 translations listed for this verse on Biblehub.com, 25 use the word "up."[/QUOTE

Amen. Yahuweh PROVIDED water < LIVING WATER > (moving water, not dead, not stale) for EVERY immersion (baptism) in Scripture,
and for EVERYONE who chose to OBEY HIM , always.

 

[Peter1000]

Yah, well don't get overly excited. D.A.Wright is just stating the truth. Dan is making the rounds with this one! LOL! The only ones spared are the Catholics---so far. Quite frankly--it matters didley squat to me what the church fathers taught as they started going against scripture very early on. The bible is the test to go by---not church fathers.

That's exactly what we believe. It is called the apostasy, when the church fathers and church philosophers and church doctors of religion started to change the ordinances of baptism and others. Lots of changes within 40 years of the ascension of Jesus Christ. So I am glad you recognize that also.

 

[Peter1000]

QUOTE="D.A. Wright, post: 74203944, member: 421109"]Utter balderdash. I can't believe you're actually urging a single prooftext from Ezekiel to advance the validity of the method of Catholic baptism. The availability of water is key? My head hurts now.

You go on to reference anything and everything but the Bible, which uses the word "baptizo," which literally means to bury or submerge. Christ "came up out of the water." (Mark 1:10) (Thought I'd use the Gospel purported to be according to Peter, as dictated to his assistant, just for your benefit.) Young's Literal Translation says "immediately coming up from the water." The Greek (to which I rarely resort, if that tells you anything) uses the word transliterated "anabaino," ascend; to go up; mount; be borne up; spring up; climb up; grow up; rise up. The only thing left to add is jalapenos. Of the 28 translations listed for this verse on Biblehub.com, 25 use the word "up."[/QUOTE

Amen. Yahuweh PROVIDED water < LIVING WATER > (moving water, not dead, not stale) for EVERY immersion (baptism) in Scripture,
and for EVERYONE who chose to OBEY HIM , always.

Amen. Jesus wanted baptism to be performed a certain way. Then after his death, men got together and in their wisdom said, there are times we just cant do it that way, so we will do it this way. And many other things changed because of men's wisdom, until we got to a spot when the existing churches didn't look or act like the original first century church. Changes in baptism was just the tip of an iceberg. Thanks for recognizing it.