Mail-order Brides

[LinkH]

I showed a video for an ethical issue in class one day, this one on Vietnamese mail order brides:Most of the class did not consider the business to be unethical. If anything, I think the sales pitch was perhaps borderline unethical. The man in the video is speaking Chinese a lot so the girls probably don't understand what he said when he asked if they would marry a 60 year old.

Singapore is a very interesting place, a predominantly ethnic Chinese, very well organized, economically developed city-state with somewhat 'modern' attitudes close to two predominatly Islamic developing countries with conservative social values. I can see why this industry exists in Singapore. The government is concerned with the lack of children being born due to people marrying late. A lot of women are very career minded. There are cultures there that have a strong history of arranged marriages. The Vietnamese village women they recruit for these matchmaking agencies are known for being very domestically inclined with a desire for families and children.

Apparently, in Vietnam, there are places a foreign man can go and meet one young woman in her late teens or early twenties after another. He interviews her through an interpreter. If the man chooses a woman she likes and she agrees, they get married on the spot and some company makes money from selling the travel package, the introductions, or the wedding party, or some combination.

I was wondering if anyone wanted to discuss the ethics of this sort of mail order bride type business. As far as Christians go, I don't see how this would be a sinful thing to do as long as both parties are followers of Christ. I don't know that it is necessarily a wise thing to do, especially since the matchmaker set up can eliminate some of the normal safe-guards for arranged marriages like families and parents interviewing everyone involved, giving advice, and weeding out the duds.


<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FScBxMqC9cI>

 

[JaneFW]

And .......?

 

[dallasapple]

I agree and?I personally am disgusted with ordering humans off a menu ...thats all I would have to say about that..

Dallas

 

[LinkH]

And .......?

And the paragraphs I wrote afterward was not included in the post. Maybe if you put text after the video it doesn't show up. I edited it to put the text before the video and it worked out fine.

 

[JaneFW]

I was wondering if anyone wanted to discuss the ethics of this sort of mail order bride type business. As far as Christians go, I don't see how this would be a sinful thing to do as long as both parties are followers of Christ. I don't know that it is necessarily a wise thing to do, especially since the matchmaker set up can eliminate some of the normal safe-guards for arranged marriages like families and parents interviewing everyone involved, giving advice, and weeding out the duds.

In what area of western life is this done in the 21st century?

My concern would be more for the young women than the men marrying them. With the language gap, lack of education and experience, and lack of any control over their future, they have no idea who they will be sold to. Bad things can happen.

 

[lillivanilli]

Sounds a lot like speed-dating, but of course in speed-dating your are not immediately married off to the person you like the most.

IDK - if these girls are fully aware of what they are doing and are completely consenting to it, I guess I don't see anything unethical about it...but whether or not they truly are going into this willingly, or if there is pressure and coercion is impossible to discern. It's not something I would personally do, but then, different cultures have different standards of living.

 

[JaneFW]

My brother is married to a Thai woman, although she wasn't a mail order bride. He met her when he spent some time travelling over there. He didn't bring her straight home, he kept on visiting her until he made up his mind that this was the woman he wanted to marry. He was in his 40's by then, not a very young man, and she was early 30's. I have to say that I love my SIL. She's a wonderful person, very kind and giving. But they have had to struggle through the cultural differences, even with the best intentions in the world.

 

[LinkH]

In what area of western life is this done in the 21st century?

Maybe some of those families where the women cover their heads and home school their children?

Arranged marriages are still fairly common in some parts of Asia. My wife is Asian and one of her sisters was basically set up through the family if I understand right. A reasonably large percentage of Koreans get married through matchmakers. I am not sure about Vietnam, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen there, and I would guess some immigrants to Singapore get arranged one way or another. Apparently, there is a market for matchmakers in Singapore.

My concern would be more for the young women than the men marrying them. With the language gap, lack of education and experience, and lack of any control over their future, they have no idea who they will be sold to. Bad things can happen.

It's not exactly selling. The groom is expected to pay $10,000 to the matchmaker for an introduction if the wedding goes through, and the matchmaker probably handles visa and permanent resident paperwork. But the woman can say 'no' to a man. It doesn't look like this girl thought much about saying no. She probably feels more obligated to say yes than a girl who wasn't flown in to Singapore. She had to talk her parents into letting her do this, so it wasn't something her parents forced her into doing.

That being said, the woman in this scenario is in a vulnerable situation. A man could marry a crazy or evil girl through this kind of set up and suffer quite a bit. It would seem a lot of these girls may be looking for economic stability. Is that the same thing as being a gold digger? They may be looking for a life-time commitment, though. The girl is in a really vulnerable situation in a strange land where she doesn't speak the language if the man turns out to be some kind of monster.

If two Christians wanted to meet through a matchmaker and quickly marry, I wouldn't say that is sinful. But I don't think it is the wisest way to find a spouse.

 

[LinkH]

For the ladies, there is a mail order husbands page at Mail Order Husbands: dating, singles, brides, mailorderhusbands, mail order bachelors, grooms, mail order grooms, adult personals


Be warned. These men may not meet all the qualifications on your list.

 

[Avniel]

My brother is married to a Thai woman, although she wasn't a mail order bride. He met her when he spent some time travelling over there. He didn't bring her straight home, he kept on visiting her until he made up his mind that this was the woman he wanted to marry. He was in his 40's by then, not a very young man, and she was early 30's. I have to say that I love my SIL. She's a wonderful person, very kind and giving. But they have had to struggle through the cultural differences, even with the best intentions in the world.

My family is Jamaican and myy wife is from the south. Jamaican men area lot different then ssouthern men and there have been times I have felt out of place.

 

[hijklmnop]

Sounds a lot like speed-dating, but of course in speed-dating your are not immediately married off to the person you like the most.

IDK - if these girls are fully aware of what they are doing and are completely consenting to it, I guess I don't see anything unethical about it...but whether or not they truly are going into this willingly, or if there is pressure and coercion is impossible to discern. It's not something I would personally do, but then, different cultures have different standards of living.

You could say the same for prostitutes, strippers and inappropriate content stars...all of which involve an exchange of needs/desires between two consenting adults generally....money/economical survival for company/sex/service.

I think this business is incredibly exploitative and wrong.

 

[MessianicMommy]

In what area of western life is this done in the 21st century?...

You might be surprised. Some very conservative christians do this, and it is still done within Orthodox Judaism for the most part. Ever heard of a shadchan or shidduch?? Dating's not really encouraged, nor being alone with the other person or any pda - even hand-holding. (see here)


Not to mention a lot of emigrê do also match-make and arrange marriages. It's illegal here, but there was a recent investigation that found it was happening, and not just to middle-eastern or African origin peoples. Many people from the former USSR countries were forced into marriage and somehow they got around all the safeguards. (see here, here and here) Many were legally German citizens.

 

[LinkH]

You could say the same for prostitutes, strippers and inappropriate content stars...all of which involve an exchange of needs/desires between two consenting adults generally....money/economical survival for company/sex/service.

I think this business is incredibly exploitative and wrong.

What if you took the matchmaker and/or his/her fee? Do you still think it would be wrong?

 

[Created2Write]

You could say the same for prostitutes, strippers and inappropriate content stars...all of which involve an exchange of needs/desires between two consenting adults generally....money/economical survival for company/sex/service.

I think this business is incredibly exploitative and wrong.

Wonderful point. I agree.

 

[dallasapple]

People go into things "willingly" all the time that are a lesser of two evil choices..it doesnt make it ETHICAL that if a choice is X(and its some sort of suffering/or hardship) or the choice Y (and its soem sort fo suffering or compromising of ones dignity they wouldnt TRULY choose if there was choice #(none of the above) and the person givign them this "choice" is there with thier tonge hanging out to reap the pleasures or benefits of this person chosing the lesser of 2 evils its SICK!

Also very YOUNG inexperineced people dont necessarrily KNOW the full consequences of what they are "willingly " choosing ....

Dallas

 

[mattyb1982]

You could say the same for prostitutes, strippers and inappropriate content stars...all of which involve an exchange of needs/desires between two consenting adults generally....money/economical survival for company/sex/service.

I think this business is incredibly exploitative and wrong.

You just described marriage

 

[Avniel]

I think that in a cultural where those types of marriages are culturally accepted and traditionally valuedthen i feel that it is ethical. How can we judge ones culturals social norms when the western world has so many negatives that trump arranged marriages.

However I do think its wrong for those from countries that are economically surperior to take advantage to a higher capital value and use this to marry women that they think will be their slaves. Thats exploiting a tradition and turning it into prostution....which I find grossly ignorant and a tad bit narasistic.

 

[LinkH]

I think that in a cultural where those types of marriages are culturally accepted and traditionally valuedthen i feel that it is ethical. How can we judge ones culturals social norms when the western world has so many negatives that trump arranged marriages.

However I do think its wrong for those from countries that are economically surperior to take advantage to a higher capital value and use this to marry women that they think will be their slaves. Thats exploiting a tradition and turning it into prostution....which I find grossly ignorant and a tad bit narasistic.

It seems the American men who like the mail order bride idea tend to think that American women are too career centered, aren't generally concerned enough about the home, and aren't oriented toward staying home and having children. And some of them do want a submissive wife. All of those are legitimate concerns, though there are American women who share the same values, too. And a certain percentage of men who go for this kind of thing are looking for someone to treat as a slave. It would seem that Singaporean man in the video was getting his family involved in the whole situation. There is a rural town in Korea that has a huge percentage of the population who are Vietnamese brides. The government paid so the farmers could have wives. A lot of the men who do this are really looking for wives.

As far as the economic superiority issue goes, a lot of women do look for financially stable men. In Indonesia, some of the women find western men attractive and like western men for more than just economic reasons. The US churns out a lot of movies where tough, good-looking white guy saves the city, the nation, or the planet from being destroyed. I could see how some percentage of girls in these countries romanticize the idea of marrying a western man, so when some aging bald guy who just got over his fourth divorce, who has money and isn't bad looking shows up at the virgin bride matching agency slash shoe factory, and shows the workers a picture and gives them a bio, that some of those girls may want an interview.

I don't think marrying someone after a brief interview should be illegal, especially if the parents consent (which is important in Asian cultures). I prefer if governments have very light restrictions on such things. As far as Christians are concerned, I don't think this is a good way to get a wife. It would be hard to find a woman who is sincere in her faith at a secular agency like this. And the man can say, "Sure, I am a Christian" like over half the US population claims, when he doesn't make much effort toward walking out his faith.

The chances of ending up with some major character flaws through this method seem extremely high, especially for the young woman. They are likely to end up with men who, for some reason, couldn't get a spouse in their home country. In some cases, the issue could be shyness or looks or lack of financial resources compared to people in the home country. Vietnamese men also suffer since this can create an imbalance between married men and women in that country.

 

[LinkH]

People go into things "willingly" all the time that are a lesser of two evil choices..it doesnt make it ETHICAL that if a choice is X(and its some sort of suffering/or hardship) or the choice Y (and its soem sort fo suffering or compromising of ones dignity they wouldnt TRULY choose if there was choice #(none of the above) and the person givign them this "choice" is there with thier tonge hanging out to reap the pleasures or benefits of this person chosing the lesser of 2 evils its SICK!

My guess is these girls want to marry up financially, but that there are other options for most of them in Vietnamese society. They could work regular jobs, marry regular Vietnamese men, and live regular Vietnamese lives. But they choose to line up to marry foreigners. Maybe some girls over there are trying to get married to find a husband to pay for their mothers' operation so she doesn't die, but I doubt that is the normal situation.

I have a college whose wife is Vietnamese, and it sounds like a lot of them are very practical about who they marry. It is an agreement, and they weigh alternatives, including financial considerations. Americans focus a lot on feelings.

Also very YOUNG inexperineced people dont necessarrily KNOW the full consequences of what they are "willingly " choosing ....

But, alas, that applies to all young people getting married, and older people, too.

 

[LinkH]

I think this business is incredibly exploitative and wrong.

Do you think those online dating and marriage arranging sites are exploitative and wrong? They take money for memberships or get money somehow from whatever business model they choose.