Magic the Gathering, and other Video games

gzt

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I would personally find FPS games more disturbing than "fantasy" games, especially the more abstract fantasy games involving only decks of cards. I've never been much of one for either, really.

EDIT: though I would say that I don't think it's helpful to have a game where, say, you summon Satan to do satanic satanry and murder virgins and what-have-you. I don't think most of these games are like that at all, but I think it's important to remember that Hell and Satan are real and should not be made light of.
 
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Osage Bluestem

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Yeah, I've read the series over several times since Lord of Chaos came out. It's a lot to keep up with. I feel your pain on not having time to read.



It's kept me entertained for 17 years or so...

Have you read any other series?

Salvatore, Hobb, Martin, Goodkind, Rawn, Gemmel, Brooks....etc?
 
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Osage Bluestem

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I loved the Sword of Truth series up until it got too preachy with the Objectivism and Richard just became unlikeable to me. I love Salvatore and all the characters he creates. I'm eager to dig into the new Drizzt books.

Me too. I read the sword of truth through the confessor. The Ayn Randiness was there for sure in the last few books. That bored me a bit, but the story was still cool. I hear there are some new books that are offshoots of it somehow. I haven't read them though.

I read Salvatore's Dark Elf Trilogy, Icewind Dale Trilogy, The Legacy, Paths of Darkness, The Hunter's Blades Trilogy, and Transitions. I haven't cracked open the Neverwinter series yet, but he has only released two books out of it. I bought the first one "Gauntlgrym" for my nook but I haven't started it.

I'm diving into the Wheel of Time right now so I should be busy for a year or so with that. There are twelve 800+ page books to read.... By the time I'm done Salvatore's series should be completed or he will be working on the next one. :)
 
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LewsTherin

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Have you read any other series?

Salvatore, Hobb, Martin, Goodkind, Rawn, Gemmel, Brooks....etc?

Not yet, plan on starting another series after WOT. Thought about Goodkind maybe, although I have very little time to read anymore.:(
 
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rusmeister

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I would disagree with this on two counts. First, with the quality of story-telling in modern video games, they are quite capable of having the same problems as films or literature. Although I feel like avoiding all non-Christian media is extreme, there are definitely some video games that I would not and do not play because of their anti-Christian content.

It's important to be discerning in what we take in from the media. Sometimes, this can be as simple as filtering the information we receive from a source, and sometimes we have to cut that source out entirely. The dividing line is sometimes not clear cut.

The second reason why I would disagree with this, though, is that modern adult gaming is not only just as capable of carrying a message as film is, it's also as much a part of the daily lives of most young adults as watching movies or reading books is for older individuals.

Most young adults do not try to escape the realities of day to day life through playing video games, even if some do. Games like Halo are so ubiquitous that playing them online is now a form of social interaction with friends, many of whom the player knows in the real world. Others can serve as a form of interactive story-telling just like movies, but with a more involved component. As long as this doesn't interfere with the day to day life of the player (and it usually doesn't), it's just as acceptable as any other form of entertainment.
Hi, GW,
I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. I do agree that the stories in video games can have problems just as in literature or art. I also agree that we need to discern. I further agree that it is a large part of the daily lives of many young adults. I even agree (and thought I said clearly enough) that these games and stories carry messages.

But to say that most young adults do not try to escape from the realities of day to day life (please note that I try address your exact words, rather than only my own interpretation of them) is debatable, to say the least. I think we could agree that a great many people do. But to address your thought, what exactly is "social interaction"? What qualifies? Does an e-mail qualify? If not, why not? What is the difference in quality between reading an IM from a friend in an online game, and sitting across the table from him? And what does "acceptable" mean? Who does the accepting, and on what basis? (Reminds me of CS Lewis recounting his first teenage encounter with his tutor, Kirkpatrick, where the latter poses a similar question to Lewis.)

What I would try to say is that the minimum result is degradation of social interaction, an indisputably inferior quality to the interaction, as well as a practical distancing of ourselves from our neighbors. There are reasons why we are told to love our neighbors - those close to us. So I think this a rather difficult point for the serious Christian to defend. I would certainly grant that there are exceptions and justifiable situations - but they would be exceptional, and not the rule.

The other thing I have already tried (and evidently failed) to say is that an excessive focus on entertainment is definitely bad, especially when it becomes a daily requirement, when the person sits down for hours in front of a computer screen instead of socially interacting with the people physically near him, when he does it, not for work or ministry, but to be entertained. Entertainment as such should occupy a rather small place in our lives, which generally turn out to be shorter than we think.

Again, all of that is distinct from valid consideration of the fairy-tale, of fantasy as a vehicle for truth.
 
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Incariol

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I loved the Sword of Truth series up until it got too preachy with the Objectivism and Richard just became unlikeable to me. I love Salvatore and all the characters he creates. I'm eager to dig into the new Drizzt books.

So you liked the Sword of Truth up until about the third chapter of the first book? I barely made it through Wizard's First Rule. That book was awful.
 
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inconsequential

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So you liked the Sword of Truth up until about the third chapter of the first book? I barely made it through Wizard's First Rule. That book was awful.

I wasn't Orthodox so the Objectivism didn't bother me. Later, it just got so bad that I began to dislike the protagonist because of it.
 
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inconsequential

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Regarding rusmeister's statements on social interactions, for me it was a matter of something being better than nothing. Physically being around people is very uncomfortable for me because of my autism so having that distance allows me to have social interaction I otherwise wouldn't have. Innumerable attempts by well-meaning people over the years to "help" me by forcing me into social situations have greatly exacerbated the condition. I doubt I'm unique or even terribly rare in that respect.
 
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rusmeister

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Regarding rusmeister's statements on social interactions, for me it was a matter of something being better than nothing. Physically being around people is very uncomfortable for me because of my autism so having that distance allows me to have social interaction I otherwise wouldn't have. Innumerable attempts by well-meaning people over the years to "help" me by forcing me into social situations have greatly exacerbated the condition. I doubt I'm unique or even terribly rare in that respect.
Thanks, IC,
I think there ARE genuine exceptions. But the exceptions are not the rule, even an alternate rule. I'd make no judgements on individual cases without knowing an awful lot about the person. I don't doubt you, though - but I would be skeptical if everybody started describing themselves that way.

The trouble with us is that when you admit an exception, everybody clamors to be counted as exceptional.
 
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inconsequential

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I think the current trend in gaming to add a moral component that genuinely affects the story and gameplay has a lot of potential to expand how deeply people are drawn into the characters they play. I can also see it having the potential to LEAD more impressionable gamers into whatever morals the developers are striving for but that is already going on in other media as well as society at large.

I would love to see a game that implemented the concept in a more realistic way to demonstrate some genuine moral truths.
 
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