Macs vs PC

[wayfaring man]

Greetings all ,

I've only ever used microsoft and have heard macintosh operating systems are much more trouble free ... Is this true from anyone's experience here ? Or it it largely some marketing hype ?

Thanks

wm

 

[wiggsfly]

It's true. Mac is far more stable than Windows. There are a myriad of reasons for this, but the end result is you get what you pay for.

 

[MrJim]

When I was a pc user I took mine in to a tech service for work. I asked the guy (and he didn't sell computers) if the mac/linux systems were as bulletproof as I'd heard (mostly from guys here ) and he sorta looked around and looked at the ground and looked at me and said "Yes they are". I bought my first one then, almost 2 1/2 years ago. Since then I've only one minor crash (in which I lost no info and took minutes to fix). I run no virus scans, download no virus/malware updates, and enjoy a most excellent OS. One of the things that frustrated me with a pc was the constant paranoia of virus/malware and so I was always running scans and downloading updates, and I can remember telling my wife that it seemed I spent more time doing that than actually using the computer. I spent about $700 for a customized mac mini (which means I had 1GB of memory put in instead of the stock 512mb) in the fall of '06, and today it is still in great condition and the RAM is still fine for it's use. I use it for internet, email, word processing, and things like that.

All that said, I would like to build a pc sometime. I'm not exactly a mac fanboy, and see the purpose for pcs for the guys that know how to take apart/put together and really jack up a system to do extraordinary things. It would be fun to build one for gaming with my oldest son, and buying a mac strong enough to do that is $$$$ and then the game selection is modest. And depending upon usage there is always the linux route for the pcs, so pc isn't limited to windows.

It might not be easy to do, but you should try to find someone with a mac and see how their's works, maybe use it. It's a bit of a different experience; I use a windows system at work, and always try to use my mac tricks on it only to be reminded I can't do that

 

[wayfaring man]

It's true. Mac is far more stable than Windows. There are a myriad of reasons for this, but the end result is you get what you pay for.

Appreciate the reply wiggsfly ... any thoughts on best place to purchase a Mac ?

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

When I was a pc user I took mine in to a tech service for work. I asked the guy (and he didn't sell computers) if the mac/linux systems were as bulletproof as I'd heard (mostly from guys here ) and he sorta looked around and looked at the ground and looked at me and said "Yes they are". I bought my first one then, almost 2 1/2 years ago. Since then I've only one minor crash (in which I lost no info and took minutes to fix). I run no virus scans, download no virus/malware updates, and enjoy a most excellent OS. One of the things that frustrated me with a pc was the constant paranoia of virus/malware and so I was always running scans and downloading updates, and I can remember telling my wife that it seemed I spent more time doing that than actually using the computer. I spent about $700 for a customized mac mini (which means I had 1GB of memory put in instead of the stock 512mb) in the fall of '06, and today it is still in great condition and the RAM is still fine for it's use. I use it for internet, email, word processing, and things like that.

All that said, I would like to build a pc sometime. I'm not exactly a mac fanboy, and see the purpose for pcs for the guys that know how to take apart/put together and really jack up a system to do extraordinary things. It would be fun to build one for gaming with my oldest son, and buying a mac strong enough to do that is $$$$ and then the game selection is modest. And depending upon usage there is always the linux route for the pcs, so pc isn't limited to windows.

It might not be easy to do, but you should try to find someone with a mac and see how their's works, maybe use it. It's a bit of a different experience; I use a windows system at work, and always try to use my mac tricks on it only to be reminded I can't do that

Thanks MrJim ,

I too , with windows , have often felt like the bulk of my time was spent on trying to keep up with all the downloading , updating and scanning attempting to protect , or make right a frail / faulty OS.

$ 700.00 doesn't sound like too much to pay ... I'd be looking for a what is sometimes called a notebook computer , is that similar to a " mac mini " ?

Yea , trying before buying would be good !

Don't know much about linux ? Have heard of it before ... guess I could research it ?

Thanks for sharing !

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

Oh , and I just remembered , I've heard someone claim that macs are safer mainly because there are fewer of them , and hackers etc. design viruses etc. to attack microsoft sys. mostly because there's a lot more of them out there to target . Is there truth to this ?

 

[wiggsfly]

Oh , and I just remembered , I've heard someone claim that macs are safer mainly because there are fewer of them , and hackers etc. design viruses etc. to attack microsoft sys. mostly because there's a lot more of them out there to target . Is there truth to this ?

While that's part of what keeps a mac safer, it also has to due with file permissions. On a PC most users run with full rights to manipulate any file they want. This makes it easy for you to install Malware, etc. This isn't the case on Mac or Linux where the user has a much more limited set of permissions.

 

[peanutbutter12]

Lets break down the differences. The simple truth is that besides these differences, it really just depends what interface you would rather work in. There is no difference in the quality of work as there once was if you're someone who works in things like graphic design, audio, etc. The results are the same.

Mac Benefits - Macs are harder to mess up. If you're someone prone to deleting system files or generally screwing up your OS, then Mac is the way to go because it's much harder to do.

Mac downside - If you're someone who likes gaming or third party programs, then you probably should stay away from Mac as there is little to no support a lot of time for those. Macs also generally cost more than PC, sometimes by x2. The computer I built for $3000 would have cost over $6000 if I had bought a Mac.

PC Benefits - Very little limitation with the OS. If you know what you are doing, you can modify pretty much everything. Third party and gaming support for 99% of the programs out.

PC Downside - Viruses, Malware, etc. Honestly, if you have a scanner run once a day while you're asleep or during a time when the computer isn't in use, it's no big deal or hard task to accomplish. I've not had a virus in years and I do a mass amount of downloading and work. Just don't open every .exe attachment you get in your email and you should be fine. And contrary to what most people have said, Vista was a fantastic OS. Old stigmas die hard though. With Win 7 around the corner though, no worries.

Linux Benefits - Probably the most stable of all the OSes, free, fast, and great development.

Linux Downside - Very little driver support for hardware, very little program support which means most of what you will use is third party - designed for Linux - programs. I'd be in Linux now if it supported everything that PC does.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Linux and Unix-derived (i.e. Macs) systems are far more secure than Windows partially because of a smaller market share but also because they are simply just more secure in their design.

Basically: Macs are easy to use, but they cost a lot because it's Apple. Linux is free, and the user-friendliness is getting better. Ubuntu is the most user-friendly, but it still requires some manual editing from time-to-time.

If you're not afraid to get your hands a bit dirty and want to save a decent amount of money, go with Linux. If you're looking to switch over from PC to Mac and keep things easy to do than go with Mac. But of course, they cost more. Also remember that Macs have a different "feel" to them. It will take a bit of time to feel comfortable in the OS. Linux and Windows are more similar in their feel in my opinion... Mostly because of that awesome little control key.

 

[Qyöt27]

Some tasks endemic to Windows are harder to accomplish on a Mac due to the lack of support (while non-linear video editing software is well grounded on both, support programs for the Mac are sorely lacking - the absence of AviSynth is one of the greatest drawbacks, IMO, and even running it in Wine isn't a substitute because of the lack of VFW and DirectShow support). Other types of file management tasks can also be rather frustrating if you're very accustomed to Windows practices in the matter. But like everything, the more you use it, the less weird it is. My mom has an old iBook that runs Jaguar, and they also have one of the Intel iMacs that runs Tiger. I'm fairly comfortable on them, although because I don't have or need constant access to them I just don't find them as useful for certain tasks. I've even made the iMac utterly lock up a couple times, whereas on my XP setup I've not had such a complete lockup in years (periodic slowdowns, yes, lockups, no).

Linux, and the ways it can be used, is sort of like playing roulette. This is mainly because most distributions are highly, highly modular, whereas both OS X and Windows are not, at least by default. The desktop environment in particular (yes, there are substitute shells for Windows, such as xoblite - which I have sitting around myself - or the Aston shell, but they don't have the same level of visibility that the myriad environment and window manager projects on Linux do). GNOME could be generalized to be roughly Mac-like, KDE is roughly Windows-like, Fluxbox (or other *boxes, like the original BlackBox and Openbox; the aforementioned xoblite is a Windows port of BlackBox) is completely alien in concept to either of the previous two, and I could never figure out Enlightenment. It's not limited to those, though - there's dozens of them out there. There was even a project to develop a more or less straight clone of the Windows XP interface, but it never really got off the ground. Besides, the level of theme and system customization you can do under GNOME (via Beryl) can make it look virtually the same as Vista Aero if you wanted it to.

Market share arguments about system vulnerability I take with a heavy grain of salt; market share only makes existing problems more visible, it doesn't spawn them. Windows would be just as insecure and poorly administrated under-the-hood no matter if the market share was 90% or 10%. Likewise, the security models in OS X and Linux, as both are Unix-based or Unix-like, are no more or less secure because of their lack of share. The vulnerabilities would exist either way, increased market share may increase the rates of trying to attack them, but it doesn't provide an accurate model of successful attacks, which is what is really important here. Unix systems are famous for their tight security, and have been in the 40 years since they were introduced (2009 is the 40th anniversary of its development). NASA even uses them.

Basically, if all you're looking for is security and a basic Windows replacement, OS X and Linux are pretty much tied. The differences amount largely to official support (most Linux distributions don't provide a hierarchy there, although the major distros have either for-pay tech support or large communities to offer free help, and of course Apple offers it comprehensively), and to program selection. Like I said, if all you're really looking to do is word processing, web browsing & email, music, etc., then Linux is perfectly well-equipped, although you might want to tweak the interface's appearance to your liking (and if part of that 'music' category is buying from the iTunes Store, then count that one out - or at least you'd have to see about running the Windows version of iTunes via Wine or consider OS X instead; Amazon MP3's Downloader app has a Linux version, as well as an OS X version). If you want to do more focused tasks, like pro-level video editing, then I'd choose OS X over Linux at this time. The Linux video scene is not at the level of maturity that Windows' or OS X's is, although it's getting there - albeit slowly. I use video editing as an example because that's my main hobby and the profession I'm shooting for a career in.

 

[wayfaring man]

Thanks every one ,

You've given me a lot to consider .

Appreciate your time and effort very much !

May The Lord Bless !

wm

 

[Foreshadow]

Greetings all ,

I've only ever used microsoft and have heard macintosh operating systems are much more trouble free ... Is this true from anyone's experience here ? Or it it largely some marketing hype ?

Thanks

wm

All I have to say is that for the last year and a half I have had Windows Vista I have not had a single problem what so ever. Macs are also expensive for what you get than Windows Vista, Xp etc.

 

[SimpleDon]

I can add a few points.

What are you going to do with the computer? If you are going to surf the web and do some word processing then it doesn't really matter which one you buy. Look at a 300 dollar NetBook running Windows XP or Linux. If you have specialized needs worry about the software available for what you want to do, not the operating system. If you are going to develop software for profit, Windows hands down, for fun Windows & Linux dual boot.

If you always wanted to join a cult, don't mind buying new software for each major OS revision and have the money up front, buy Mac.

(Required disclosure, I owned both an Apple III computer and a Lisa in the 80's, $14,000 of useless boat anchors sold by Apple)

 

[MrJim]

I can add a few points.

What are you going to do with the computer? If you are going to surf the web and do some word processing then it doesn't really matter which one you buy. Look at a 300 dollar NetBook running Windows XP or Linux. If you have specialized needs worry about the software available for what you want to do, not the operating system. If you are going to develop software for profit, Windows hands down, for fun Windows & Linux dual boot.

If you always wanted to join a cult, don't mind buying new software for each major OS revision and have the money up front, buy Mac.

(Required disclosure, I owned both an Apple III computer and a Lisa in the 80's, $14,000 of useless boat anchors sold by Apple)

 

[wslctrc]

I was using Windows based systems for years, got to the point family brought their computers to me for repair. Upgraded them, cleaned them up to run better. This spread to everyone I knew would bring their machines to me. We bought an Imac for our home office and my wife took to it like a fish to water. It took me a bit longer to understand it but I started to enjoy it. We had 4 desktops and a laptop in our home that were all windows based and I scrapped them all in favor of Macs. We started with Ibooks for the kids and Imacs for my wife and I with the inclusion of a laptop for us to do things when not in the office. I would never go back to a windows machine as my main computer. I have one just to tinker with when I get bored with the Mac, not having to defrag or do virus checks or things like that. I now have a Macbook Pro, my wife has the newest Macbook air, my youngest daughter has my wife's old Macbook air and my oldest daughter won't part with her black Macbook for new. I also have an older 12" power Mac for my work truck when I get it set up.
The Mac's in my opinion are worth the extra cost because they are more stable, they hold their retail value longer, and the notion about lack of software/games is a crock implanted in everyone's head so they will stay loyal to Windows. The Mac's lack of problems alone is worth the little cost difference to me, yes little cost difference. If you take the original cost of both machines, factor in the OS, extra software, virus protection, malware/spyware protection, keep it for a few years and sell it, the mac will leave more money in your pockets, this is from experience and first hand accounts.

 

[Qyöt27]

and the notion about lack of software/games is a crock implanted in everyone's head so they will stay loyal to Windows.

That depends entirely on what your idea of 'software' or 'games' is. When said people talk of lack of games, they're talking about heavy gaming, first-run titles, not board gaming like Jewel Quest, Solitaire, or Backgammon (even though a huge argument about that is if you want those types of games, just go buy an Xbox[360] or PS3). And most of those first-run games do not have a Mac version - the only way to possibly get them to work is to use them with Crossover, which is not the same as them actually being for Mac itself. To truly live up to that title, the games have to be native apps, not running through a Windows compatibility layer.

And specialty software is another area where it may or may not be as well-equipped. As I mentioned in my video editing comparison, AviSynth, which is an indispensable tool due to its sheer power, but it only runs on Windows - unless you use it via Wine, in which case it works, but it's crippled because it lacks the ability to use AVISource or DirectShowSource (which depend on pieces of Windows' API, VFW and DirectX, that haven't been well-ported yet). There isn't any reasonable alternative to it that runs natively on a Mac, and the plans for version 3.0 to be cross-platform died with the death of version 3.0 in general.

The Mac's lack of problems alone is worth the little cost difference to me, yes little cost difference. If you take the original cost of both machines, factor in the OS, extra software, virus protection, malware/spyware protection, keep it for a few years and sell it, the mac will leave more money in your pockets, this is from experience and first hand accounts.

Except malware/spyware protection is readily available for free, virus protection can be free (or not even necessary, if you have the proper shunts in place; I've not needed or used an anti-virus in years), and 'extra software' is so ambiguous that you can't really quantify it, not to mention being highly specific to what one does with a computer.

Frankly, most programs people shell out money for, there's a free alternative (open source or not) that works just as well or better. It's just sometimes not as convenient to find, because the user actually has to use their brain and search for it. And paying for convenience is not something I'd factor into comparing Windows to Mac. Especially since the same principle applies to the Mac - many of the programs for it that people pay good money for are often completely superfluous as well (and at least in terms of those open source programs I mentioned being good replacements on Windows, many of them have Mac versions, because they maintain cross-platform compatibility, so you'd be using the same programs anyway).

 

[wslctrc]

Qyöt27

This could go back and forth until Christ returns and there will never be an agreement. I have friends who are professional recording artists, photographers, drafts people, videographers and web site creators who fellowship with others in their own profession and none of them use a Windows based computer and agree that the Mac is superior for their needs. If you are an adult and would like to play games on your computer then sure go with a Windows machine, but I would just go after an xbox etc. myself and use my tv instead. I have used my Mac in the past for some newer games like NFS and Quake just to see the response and it played full screen, highest res without a flaw. I use my computer for work and for creating audio/video projects and having done everything I need to do on both a Mac and a Windows machine, I am just saying I would not go back.
What is a full version of Windows worth compared to Leopard? The average person doesn't know enough to look for 'free' software on the internet to battle those problems only Windows computers are hampered with.
The commercials that Microsoft has come out with trying to convince people that you can't find a laptop or computer for x# of $ are shooting themselves in the foot when the actor must 'settle' with a cheaper model.
I am not a Mac fanboy, I know that Windows computers have their place in society, it just isn't with the professionals who know the difference.
If you have truly had the full experience of working on a Mac then I doubt you would be pushing a Windows computer, I have never come across anyone who has.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I have a desktop running Linux/Windows dual boot. Rarely if ever boot into Windows anymore because for programs that I absolutely need to use in Windows because they don't work in Wine, I am taking advantage of the free Windows 7 RC and Virtualbox to run it as a VM.

I also have a MacBook Pro laptop. Used to have an iBook G4. I bought that one with my own money when I started college (Yes, I still had a desktop then too). I got this new one as a graduation present. My list o' stuff to buy with my newfound income included a laptop after a TV, and it wasn't going to be a Mac. They're honestly too expensive for what they give you. For the average user it's ok, but I am comfortable enough to run Linux and not even bother with Windows. My goal was to buy a cheaper laptop and format some version of Linux over the pre-installed Windows. The iBook was DEFINITELY not worth what I paid for it. 1,000 dollars for a 30GB hard drive, 1.4 GHz celeron processor, and some crappy integrated video card. Granted, it was in 2005--but still.

The fact of the matter is, a Mac out of the box costs more than a Windows-based laptop. If you're smart about what programs you get on your Windows laptop (i.e. free ones), it'll still be cheaper than a Mac after all is said and done. I'm not bashing Mac OS itself here. Mac OS is a great operating system. It's built on a solid Unix foundation and once you delve into it, it's just as satisfying of an experience as running Linux.

The thing I am bashing on is Apple's tendency to overcharge for their products. They make very few things, in my opinion, that are worth what they cost. Those things would be the iPhone and iPod Touch. There aren't really any other devices that stand up to them, in my opinion. There are other things that emulate it, but the iPhone/iPod Touch have a user experience, simplicity, and power that puts them in a class of their own.

Mac computers, though, I just don't see them being worth what they cost when you can get something free (in more ways than just cost) like Linux. I'm posting this from my MacBook right now, of course, since I *still* don't have my own internet connection. Verizon is dropping the ball... But I think it'll finally be resolved tomorrow and I'll at least get my internet when I'm scheduled to get it.

Basically, I'd take a Mac if someone gave it to me (which I did ), but I wouldn't buy one myself.

 

[Qyöt27]

This could go back and forth until Christ returns and there will never be an agreement. I have friends who are professional recording artists, photographers, drafts people, videographers and web site creators who fellowship with others in their own profession and none of them use a Windows based computer and agree that the Mac is superior for their needs.

And out of all those cases, how much of it is simply OS X itself, because the playing field for that stuff has largely been leveled. There's just momentum from all the years that Windows was at a genuine disadvantage. I experienced the huge bias against Adobe Premiere when I took my media courses, where we were flat-out told that if you don't use Avid or Final Cut Pro, they won't even look at you (which somewhat flew in the face of reason considering the number of high-profile productions that did or do use Premiere, but I digress). Even though Photoshop and After Effects are industry standards, Premiere would get the short end of that stick.

The point of that is that for a few years there, Adobe had stopped updating the Mac version of Premiere, and only started to again after the switch to Intel. Can't remember which CS-version it was, but prior to that the last version was 6.5, I believe, which was the last version before Premiere Pro arrived. It was a good four or five year gap.

The average person doesn't know enough to look for 'free' software on the internet to battle those problems only Windows computers are hampered with.

Their waste of money, then. My point was that in trying to compare price, it's not fair to factor in software that is only paid for out of convenience and secondary concern (and yes, I do view some security measures as secondary, because it takes very very little knowledge to nearly or completely avoid those dangers; non-willingness to address personal behavior that leaves yourself wide open to attack will wreck even the best protected of systems), because the prices and quality of the software can vary greatly.

I am not a Mac fanboy, I know that Windows computers have their place in society, it just isn't with the professionals who know the difference.
If you have truly had the full experience of working on a Mac then I doubt you would be pushing a Windows computer, I have never come across anyone who has.

Believe me, I'm not 'pushing Windows', and I previously said I have no real problems using a Mac when I need to. If I was able to accomplish every single task I normally do on Windows under Linux (which I've used on a dual-boot status for the last four years), I'd probably switch to it and not look back.

If I came off as confrontational in my previous post and in this one, that was not my intention.

 

[wayfaring man]

I can add a few points.

What are you going to do with the computer? If you are going to surf the web and do some word processing then it doesn't really matter which one you buy. Look at a 300 dollar NetBook running Windows XP or Linux. If you have specialized needs worry about the software available for what you want to do, not the operating system. If you are going to develop software for profit, Windows hands down, for fun Windows & Linux dual boot.

If you always wanted to join a cult, don't mind buying new software for each major OS revision and have the money up front, buy Mac.

(Required disclosure, I owned both an Apple III computer and a Lisa in the 80's, $14,000 of useless boat anchors sold by Apple)

Hi Don , and all ,

I mostly use the PC for surfing the web looking up info , writing on web sites and playing a few relatively simple games , like scrabble . But have sometimes been bothered a bit by all the time I seemed to be spending updating and downloading protective measures , ( have slow connection ).

Thanks for all the feedback !

wm