Macroevolution

[lesliedellow]

You seem to have skipped a step or two . Because most European christians have no quarrel with science in general , does not mean they believe in Darwinian evolution theory. Yes it is preety jaw dropping ,but there is at least one other option ,maybe even
more than one .

Alright, I will be more explicit. 97% of European Christians accept the Theory of Evolution. I live not far from Darwin's birth place, and a few years back, on the 150th anniversary of the publication of Origin of the Species, the parish magazine of an evangelical church near here had an article singing his praises and lamenting young earth creationism.

 

[fat wee robin]

<staff edit>

You think sin originated from

No that is NOT the reason ,even Richard Dawkins, knows that now . If you ask politely
I might tell you .

TE="lesliedellow, post: 68919913, member: 269356"]Even if all men were related to Adam, that still wouldn't explain how that lead all men to have a corrupt nature. There is a huge explanatory gap there, which nobody has ever filled.[/QUOTE]

So, when and how did sin enter into the world? I'm just looking for a Theo-Evo answer.

Where did radical corruption originate? (considering you don't like total depravity)

Like you, I believe God created us in his image ,

So says you.

Which scientist would that be? The one who has no qualifications as a scientist?

What a negative fellow you are . Are you feeling well ?

 

[fat wee robin]

Alright, I will be more explicit. 97% of European Christians accept the Theory of Evolution. I live not far from Darwin's birth place, and a few years back, on the 150th anniversary of the publication of Origin of the Species, the parish magazine of an evangelical church near here had an article singing his praises and lamenting young earth creationism.

That's not true, as most have no idea what it implies . And then there are those who
also believe in other strange things ,which we will not discuss here . So it's just a choice between Y.E.C. or Darwinism .Did you ,were you capable of explaining to them what this really means ,that their ancestors are monkeys , that God did not make them in
His image ? What then, was the purpose of Christ's birth and death ? Why did He come then, and not at any other time in all the hundreds of thousands of years before ,maybe even millions ? If you explain at least one of these maybe we could discuss further .

 

[lesliedellow]

That's not true, as most have no idea what it implies.

Fortunately our education system is an improvement on what the American education system says to be.

 

[fat wee robin]

No, they didn't. Actual science supports what RickG said.
Actual science refutes creationist frauds like those who run ICR.

Let me ask you a question: God created this world, this whole universe and everything in it. Either directly or indirectly is just quibbling over details, but the fact is that God created it. So why, should we believe the words of the men who wrote the Bible over what we actually find in the real world, through evidence discovered through science?

I do get that, but I'm just asking: why are the words of a book that was written a couple of thousand years ago, more compelling than the wonders of the world around them?

Because there are levels of conciousness not available to the only materialistic mind ,which is the 'fallen' mind .The 'Fallen mind only percieves that which is neccessary to survive in the lower world .
In order to 'evolve ' to the highest level (the irony of it ,the greatest scientists have been believers ,at least deists), there is the 'imagination ,inspiration ', that Einstein spoke of . Jesus says "In order to enter the kingdom of God, we have to be born of water and the Spirit" . Most ,maybe all Christians do not know what this means ,but Einstein had it ,and most of the greats in all works which last ,had it .The materialists
do not have it, as they are in the lower level, which in time decays, as God said it will ,as we see it every day .
Now, do we evolve as in Darwinian theory ,or is Y.E.C ,the answer ,or is there another possibility ?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Because there are levels of conciousness not available to the only materialistic mind ,which is the 'fallen' mind .The 'Fallen mind only percieves that which is neccessary to survive in the lower world .
In order to 'evolve ' to the highest level (the irony of it ,the greatest scientists have been believers ,at least deists), there is the 'imagination ,inspiration ', that Einstein spoke of . Jesus says "In order to enter the kingdom of God, we have to be born of water and the Spirit" . Most ,maybe all Christians do not know what this means ,but Einstein had it ,and most of the greats in all works which last ,had it .The materialists
do not have it, as they are in the lower level, which in time decays, as God said it will ,as we see it every day .
Now, do we evolve as in Darwinian theory ,or is Y.E.C ,the answer ,or is there another possibility ?

None of what you wrote made sense. At least to me.
Can you say that again but just actually state your point instead of just rambling.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ignore this one. Something went screwy on my internet connection.

 

[lesliedellow]

<staff edit>
Which scientist would that be? Martin Nowak perhaps? Sam Berry? Simon Conway Morris? Francisco Ayala?

I'm quite sure all four would all say that, in the absence of miraculous intervention, once you are dead you stay dead. But, since they are all Christians, I am also quite sure they would say there was one such miraculous event in Jerusalem about 2,000 years ago.

 

[-57]

I'm still waiting for one of you from the Theo-Evo sect to explain how sin entered the world.

...is there still no takers?

 

[bhsmte]

I'm still waiting for one of you from the Theo-Evo sect to explain how sin entered the world.

...is there still no takers?

How do you know sin wasn't always in the world?

 

[crjmurray]

I'm still waiting for one of you from the Theo-Evo sect to explain how sin entered the world.

...is there still no takers?

What is sin?

 

[-57]

How do you know sin wasn't always in the world?

The bible doesn't teach that. That's why.

 

[fat wee robin]

None of what you wrote made sense. At least to me.
Can you say that again but just actually state your point instead of just rambling.

Well those who really know the bible and have studied a bit about how God interviens in His creation ,will understand in part .At least you are a deist ,so you have some gift of the Spirit .It shows up in a part of creation ,and like many studies you come accross it be 'accident' seemingly ,and then all is clear .You want me to tell you here on the net what took so much of my life to find with hard work and so on .Let me just say we are not created when we are born .Christianity says because it is in Hebrews 9:27 " And just as it is appointed to for man to die once,and after that the judgement " .This is the only thing in the bible that they use to insist that we are created at birth .It does not even say "live once", but die once .
Maybe you know that early christians believed that we had lived before ,and then the Roman Church changed that .One can see why, as reincarnation alone is certainly not the answer to anything long term ,but Jesus is .His coming changes everything .
Even the Hindus knew that the karma for an average person would mean thousands of perfect réincarnations, to allow the cycle to stop and let the person 'enter heaven'.

 

[-57]

Well those who really know the bible and have studied a bit about how God interviens in His creation ,will understand in part .At least you are a deist ,so you have some gift of the Spirit .It shows up in a part of creation ,and like many studies you come accross it be 'accident' seemingly ,and then all is clear .You want me to tell you here on the net what took so much of my life to find with hard work and so on .Let me just say we are not created when we are born .Christianity says because it is in Hebrews 9:27 " And just as it is appointed to for man to die once,and after that the judgement " .This is the only thing in the bible that they use to insist that we are created at birth .It does not even say "live once", but die once .
Maybe you know that early christians believed that we had lived before ,and then the Roman Church changed that .One can see why, as reincarnation alone is certainly not the answer to anything long term ,but Jesus is .His coming changes everything .
Even the Hindus knew that the karma for an average person would mean thousands of perfect réincarnations, to allow the cycle to stop and let the person 'enter heaven'.

Psalms 139:13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.15My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.17How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How vast is the sum of them!…

 

[RickG]

I am perfectly willing to accept that a self-reproducing semi-polymer formed by chance shortly after the earth formed.

That microevolution occurs is indisputable. We see it happening when we create new breeds of dogs.

Certainly that occurs. I am not doubting that. But even with 4.5 billion years is that sort of blind natural selection really sufficient to explain the immense complexity of life and molecular biology in particular?

That macroevolution occurs is indisputable. But it has not been established that it did or could have occurred without the aid of some sort of intelligence.

Declaring that because microevolution can be seen happening that therefore macroevolution is proven is what I would call a slippery slope fallacy.

Okay granpa, here are the concerns I have with your reasoning.

You acknowledge the age of the earth to be 4.5 Ga, and accept microevolution, then suggest that macro evolution has not been established.

Thus if I understand you correctly, you recognize micro evolution throughout geologic time, just that it doesn't show it at the macro level. That being the case, would you not be suggesting that new life forms that came into existence over geologic time just popped into existence at the right place and time in such an order as to suggest macro evolution? Otherwise, how did they get there?

 

[fat wee robin]

Psalms 139:13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.15My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.17How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How vast is the sum of them!…

Someone else whom God allows to 'know' .This is beautiful, and nothing that I
have found , truly contradicts the bible, here .
You never answered my question about when in time Lucifers fall took place, in relation
to Adams Creation and the FALL ? ? Evidently the serpent Lucifer was already out of
'paradise '.Or maybe they are two different creatures .The serpent existed at the beginning as a test from God , and Lucifer was expelled later .?

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

As this thread turned into a GA thread and there is blasphemy, the thread is closed.

 

[Lulav]

MOD HAT ON
Due to various violations a clean up of this thread has been done
If your post is missing or edited it was from said clean up.
Please note:
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