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You're reading into what he is saying more than he intended. Steven J. Gould knows that bacteria completely dominate the biological scene in terms of biological success. Yeah, sure, we're intellectually superior because we've got larger brains and are self-aware and all those nice things, but we still can't out-produce many other forms of life.pittguy579 said:He didn't say we were most numerous, but he did say we were on top i.e. most complex and obviously most capable as far as capablilities
Kinda like, in science you have to define a metric, and the use of an irrelevant metric does not support an argument.pittguy579 said:Nope, it defines someone who can't believe people wouldn't believe we are the most intelligent creatures on earth
Kind of like someone doubting the sun rises in the east and sets in the west
pittguy579 said:He didn't say we were most numerous, but he did say we were on top i.e. most complex and obviously most capable as far as capablilities
Edx said:So even though he said for over 3 billion years this planet has remained a bacterial planet, and that bacteria rule the earth... you still think he meant that humans were at the top?
Kinda like, in science you have to define a metric, and the use of an irrelevant metric does not support an argument.
You said we rule all other life, we dont, Gould specifically says bacteria do.pittguy579 said:Yes that is what he said. Bacteria are more numerous but that doesn't mean greater complexity in terms of functionality
Show me then, the exact quote where he says that. What you showed us before does not say that.He clearly said we are the most complex
pittguy579 said:Well obviously you don't have the ability to read because it is clear what he said
pittguy579 said:Intelligence and ability for abstract thoughtHave you scientifically defined what this horsepower is so that we can measure it against any other life or organ? No.
Define It,pittguy579 said:Intelligence is a valid metric
No, it isn't. Intelligence is a type of measurement, just as distance is a type of measurement. We still need a unit to measure it with. Distance is measured by yards, meters, inches, miles, etc. What do you propose we measure intelligence with?pittguy579 said:Intelligence is a valid metric
No, I said we rule in terms of complexity and we have more ability than any other form of lifeYou said we rule all other life, we dont, Gould specifically says bacteria do.
Show me then, the exact quote where he says that. What you showed us before does not say that
Well then big deal! My cat "rules" in terms of cuteness. So this is a bacterial planet, and bacteria rule...oh by my cat still rules in the cuteness department. So what?pittguy579 said:No, I said we rule in terms of complexity and we have more ability than any other form of lifeYou said we rule all other life, we dont, Gould specifically says bacteria do.
It does say thatShow me then, the exact quote where he says that. What you showed us before does not say thatHe clearly said we are the most complex
And once again, how does it? He is compares us to...
bacteria", "jellyfish...", "a trilobite.."..fish". So yea, we are more complex than these. If he wanted to he say we were the most complex he could have said "bacteria, hawks, whales, fishes". But he didnt, he chooses to compare us to the simplest forms of life. And you think that was just done by accident?
Yet you apparently can get from this that he is saying unquestionably that we are the most complex living animal!?
pittguy579 said:Yes, it is clear from the context we are clearly the most complex animal of this era. Those other creatures you cited STILL EXIT. Hence, he thinks we are more complex than those
That is what he is saying.
still running away from this one too.Dannager said:No, it isn't. Intelligence is a type of measurement, just as distance is a type of measurement. We still need a unit to measure it with. Distance is measured by yards, meters, inches, miles, etc. What do you propose we measure intelligence with?
pittguy579 said:Yes, it is clear from the context we are clearly the most complex animal of this era. Those other creatures you cited STILL EXIST. Hence, he thinks we are more complex than those
That is what he is saying.Yet you apparently can get from this that he is saying unquestionably that we are the most complex living animal!?
Well then big deal! My cat "rules" in terms of cuteness. So this is a bacterial planet, and bacteria rule...oh but my cat still rules in the cuteness department! So what?pittguy579 said:No, I said we rule in terms of complexity and we have more ability than any other form of lifeYou said we rule all other life, we dont, Gould specifically says bacteria do.
Indeed, thanks. Again Pittguy is mixing up what I am saying and also what Gould is saying. It's getting irritating.Edx said:Really? Heres how it went:
Tomk80: And Gould definitely doesn't agree with you that humans are on top in the world. He specifically stated otherwise in the very article you quoted.
You: No, he agrees with me that are the most complex.
Tom is saying that Gould doesnt agree with you saying humans are on top of the world. You say "no he doesnt he says we are more complex!". Tom isnt talking about complexity, he had just addressed that in the previous paragraph. Gould doesnt agree that we rule over all other life, he specifically stated otherwise. Therefore, you didnt read what he wrote or if you did this is a dodge on purpose.
Once again, you are wrong,Once the most complex creature was a bacterium, then it was a jellyfish, then a trilobite, then a fish, and then us.
I_Love_Cheese said:still running away from this one too.
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