Message from the Dawn of time...

[Old Ned]

This could be very... very big. Time will tell

The Game changer perhaps?

Message from the Dawn of Time...

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Actually, no, Ned. It will not be a game changer.

The hard core YEC believer will not understand it, and the part he does understand will be denounced as something demonic. Those who understand (to one level or other) will politely applaud and then wait for peer reviews and independent checking of data.

I'll be watching for the announcement tomorrow. I hope the boffins have their ducks in military precision.

Or - worst case - the reviewers will do what they did to the late Dr. Einstein in 1914 (1919?) and report 'unsubstantiated'. [Insert primal scream here.]

Just remember how long it took for the world at large - not just the Christians - to get on board with Galileo and Nikky the Pollock.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nikky the Pollock!! I love it. I wonder how many people will miss that reference?

 

[Old Ned]

Actually, no, Ned. It will not be a game changer.

No no, I wasn't actually referring to Christians or religion at all, in hindsight I see how that came off lol, I was referring to the game changer in knowledge, discovery. This could be arguably one of the biggest finds yet.
I realise that even if we invented a space/time machine and went back and filmed the big bang that it would still be denied by the die hards and anyone who doesn't like the idea.

And we all know they are not going to come out and say "Yep, this is absolute proof of the Big Bang" because we know that's not how Science works, but the substance it will add to the Theory is huge!

Pretty exciting stuff.... Star Stuff!

 

[Sayre]

I don't understand it much - what kind of matter was there prior to particles?

 

[lesliedellow]

No, it won't be a game changer; it will just confirm something already predicted.

Generally, game changing discoveries happen when something previously believed to be true, turns out to be not true. When that happens, there is the potential for a very big rethink, and a scientific revolution.

 

[Michael]

This could be very... very big. Time will tell

The Game changer perhaps?

Message from the Dawn of Time...

Meh. They're probably going to base the *entire* claim on polarization or something else that requires a affirming the consequent fallacy, and an "act of faith" as to the actual *cause*. I'm sure it won't be based on anything they found in Ligo experiments on Earth.

 

[Michael]

After those three straight failures at LHC, LUX and the electron roundness experiments, they *desperately* need a "new line of evidence" that somehow confirms their claims. I'm not the *least* bit surprised that they have an "important announcement" related to the BB. Without something else to talk about, all there is to discuss is that *string of falsifications* they've had over the last 18 months. I'm sure they'll over-hype the importance of it, and they'll probably use the term "proof" like they did with "dark matter".

 

[Michael]

The signal is rumoured to have been found by a specialised telescope called Bicep (Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization) at the south pole.

Yep. Just like a figured. Somehow without respect to *any* other electromagnetic process in plasma, they've eliminated *every* other possible cause of polarization in plasma and they've decided that the "big bang did it".

It's nothing but another affirming the consequent fallacy with respect to cause. It's the same exact fallacy they always use, just a different day.

 

[Michael]

FYI, this a more informative article on the "affirming the consequent fallacy" related to "B-mode polarization"

Proof of Inflationary Universe To Be Announced Today? - News from Sky & Telescope - SkyandTelescope.com

Those "B-mode" polarization patterns sure do bear a *strong* resemblance to a cross section of Birkeland current currents, and particularly current carrying plasma threads in space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkeland_current

I suspect however they will *yet again* ignore the *likely* cause of such corkscrew patterns in plasma, and somehow try to tie that pattern back to another affirming the consequent fallacy related to inflation.

Rumors have been racing through the physics and cosmology communities for the last few days that long-sought, Nobel Prize-worthy evidence for cosmic inflation driving the Big Bang will be announced on Monday, March 17th.

Translation: They need to sweep those failures of exotic matter theory at LHC, LUX and the electron roundness experiments under the rug as fast as possible, and they have a strong professional and emotional need to pat themselves on the back in public somehow. This is apparently going to be it.

The affirming the consequent fallacies with inflation never ends. Guth started a trend. Nobody ever has to make it do anything in a lab to any photon in any lab. They therefore have the freedom to assign it whatever ad-hoc quality they can come up with, and point at photons in the sky and claim "our (now dead) inflation deity did it".

 

[Michael]

"This is the real big tick-box that we have been waiting for. It will tell us something incredibly fundamental about what was happening when the universe was 10–34 seconds old," said Prof Andrew Jaffe, a cosmologist from Imperial College, London, who works on another telescope involved in the search called Polarbear…

So....

They're simply going to ignore plasma physics, and ignore any attempt to explain polarization patterns in plasma by conventional means. Instead they're going to attempt to tell us that despite all their failures at LUX, at LHC and in the electron roundness experiments, their theory is *great*!

How the *heck* would they know what happens inside of such a minute period of time during some 'mythical creation events" that supposedly took place 13.8 billion years ago?

They just make this stuff up as they go. They ignore every possible alternative related to ordinary plasma physics processes and immediately attempt to tie it back to the impotent on Earth inflation deity.

Inflation is the ultimate ad hoc sky deity. It creates universes on a whim from 'almost nothing'. I polarizes photons for breakfast. It creates a 'free lunch' for lunch. It's cause space to do magical expansion tricks. It has a 1001 magical mathematical uses too! Wee! How fun.

 

[Oafman]

The paper is available here, for those who have a hope of understanding it.

Michael, if you know something that this group of world-renowned cosmologists don't, then perhaps you should author your own paper on the subject?

 

[Michael]

The paper is available here, for those who have a hope of understanding it.

Michael, if you know something that this group of world-renowned cosmologists don't, then perhaps you should author your own paper on the subject?

Why?

They all take *one* wavelength of light and hype the hell out of it. Nevermind that Eddington himself predicted the backgound temperature of spacetime to within a single degree based on the ordinary scattering of starlight on dust in space. "Inflation did it anyway"!

Never mind that polarization patterns of light have *never* been shown to be influenced by inflation in any experiment on Earth. Inflation does that too! It's the ultimate ad hoc device.

Inflation can do *anything* they say it does to photons because nobody can prove it doesn't do what they claim to photons. If they claim that inflation causes photon redshift, then inflation must be the cause of photon redshift. If they claim inflation is the cause of photon polarization, then inflation must also be a *cause* of photon polarization. Since none of these claims can ever be put to any real *test* in a lab, they can safely just point at any photons from space they like, and claim their dead inflation deity had some effect on them.

Every single claim they make is an *affirming the consequent* fallacy, that is then shoehorned to fit just about any data set they want. It's one gigantic circular feedback loop!

I predict this is the "next big deal' in Nobel prize winning BB material. They certainly can't hope to give out any prizes for exotic matter theory this year. They're desperate at this point to *deflect* the topic away from exotic matter, so this is just the ticket. They'll just pile on another affirming the consequent fallacy related to inflation and polarization and hand out a few more Nobel prizes, and they will pray that nobody remembers all those failures at LUX, at LHC and in the electron roundness experiments. They'll completely ignore their failures last year, and they'll definitely hype this issue no end. Never mind the fact that polarization patterns in photons have *never* been empirically linked to inflation in any controlled experiment. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." In this case the Wizard of Oz is the Wizard of Inflation. It's one gigantic ruse.

 

[Michael]

Remind me to add a few more unsupported claims to the list of unsupported claims from the Lambda-CDM doctrine of supernatural dogma:

1) Space expansion 'causes' photon redshift
2) Inflation 'causes' space expansion
3) Inflation 'causes' B-mode polarization of photons.
4) Dark energy 'causes' space acceleration
5) exotic matter exists
6) exotic matter emits gamma rays
7) exotic matter emits x-rays

Each of these claims have been made by astronomers in the media over the past month. Not one is supported by empirical laboratory evidence, and every single claim is based upon an affirming the consequent fallacy run amok.

 

[bhsmte]

Remind me to add a few more unsupported claims to the list of unsupported claims from the Lambda-CDM doctrine of supernatural dogma:

1) Space expansion 'causes' photon redshift
2) Inflation 'causes' space expansion
3) Inflation 'causes' B-mode polarization of photons.
4) Dark energy 'causes' space acceleration
5) exotic matter exists
6) exotic matter emits gamma rays
7) exotic matter emits x-rays

Each of these claims have been made by astronomers in the media over the past month. Not one is supported by empirical laboratory evidence, and every single claim is based upon an affirming the consequent fallacy run amok.

Obsession - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Michael]

Obsession - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I hate to play the role of Captain obvious, but I've been absolutely fascinated with astronomy since the Gemini missions, and I probably went over the edge into obsession with the Apollo missions, and my trip to Houston as a child.

I've studied cosmology theories and solar theories for my entire life.

I also love God, and I love to talk about Jesus too, so this forum is *great* from my perspective.

They did just try to claim that they found a 'big discovery' in astronomy. What exactly did you expect me to say about it? Nothing?

 

[bhsmte]

I hate to play the role of Captain obvious, but I've been absolutely fascinated with astronomy since the Gemini missions, and I probably went over the edge into obsession with the Apollo missions, and my trip to Houston as a child.

I've studied cosmology theories and solar theories for my entire life.

I also love God, and I love to talk about Jesus too, so this forums is *great* from my perspective.

They did just try to claim that they found a 'big' discovery. What exactly did you expect me to say about it? Nothing?

Only my opinion, but it seems to be passed the point of being "fascinated".

 

[Michael]

Only my opinion, but it seems to be passed the point of being "fascinated".

I've probably read something on the order of 200 or so cosmology theories, I've studied thousands of papers. I've read multiple textbooks on MHD theory, and invested hundreds if not thousands of of dollars in my "hobby" over the years just in reading materials related to the topic. Astronomy has been in my blood since I first looked up at the stars in the night sky. It's just been a large part of my interest in life.

I've spend *man years* studying solar satellite imagery too. It's not just a "passing fad" from my perspective, astronomy and solar physics have been a passion throughout my life.

Of all the cosmology theories I've read, the most *supernatural* version of a "scientific theory" that exists is 'Lambda-CDM'. It's the very *worst* theory in the entire group from my perspective. I have *no idea* how it ever became so popular, but Gutheology is alive and well as that article and paper demonstrate.

IMO Lambda-CDM has become an embarrassment to science and an impediment to further scientific progress.

Some folks feel compelled to evangelize in cyberspace for Christ as I do. Some don't. Some feel compelled to evangelize *against religion* in cyberspace on "Christian" websites too. Is that an obsession as well?

Admittedly the critics of Lambda-CDM are in the minority, so perhaps I feel compelled to make up for it with a bit of work on my part.

It's just a scientific topic that I enjoy discussing and talking about. It's not my fault that the Lambda-CDM proponents keep tossing affirming the consequent fallacies at the unsuspecting news media and public day in and day out. I'm just pointing it out.

 

[Michael]

Only my opinion, but it seems to be passed the point of being "fascinated".

Let try this angle as well.....

Some people are content to go through life and *never* question their religion. Unfortunately or fortunately I became "obsessed" with giving my own religious beliefs a thorough skeptical review. That "obsession" ultimately led me through a 9 year stink with atheism, and eventually full circle again in terms of embracing theism, though I have always since had a hard time just innocently accepting the tenets of 'religion' and 'dogma'.

That same process (call it obsession) also led me to "lose my faith" in BB theory. It's almost the *identical* feeling and process by the way. I didn't lose my faith in religious dogma instantly, nor lose my faith in scientific dogma instantly, it just happened over time. I did however reach a "tipping point' in both instances where the "dogma' could not longer be justified from my perspective.

Even though I embrace Christ and Christianity, it's not "like" the brand of Christianity I grew up with as child. Likewise I can't fit myself into Lambda-CDM anymore. I can't hold any faith in it anymore. It's just bad dogma on a stick IMO. That doesn't mean I don't love 'science' however, or that I do not embrace a 'scientific' view of the cosmos. I simply choose to lack belief in supernatural dogma. Perhaps the rejection of supernatural dogma is my biggest "obsession", and that's been going on since about age 15.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Michael, you seem to have a whole lot to lose if this pans out. Will it be so disconcerting to find the Creator worked longer than you thought? It is so terrifying Bishop Ussher really isn't Divinely Inspired Scripture? Will your faith survive My Lord being more than what you thought?

The announcement was made, the gravity waves were detected according to the predictions. Now the whole experiment will be reviewed by other physicists to check on data collection and evaluation; to see if the data was collected as claimed and if the data bears out the conclusions announced.

Just for the tally books, nothing can be discovered to discredit God. Perhaps traditional Bible understanding will take a hit, but that's happened before; God and Christianity are still valid and alive.