Luther

[JacksLadder]

How dose the ELCA follow Luther's teachings? Please with quotes from Luther show how the ELCA follows his guidance today.(I read on some LCMS web sites that the ELCA should not be considered Lutheran. So I am looking to see if that is the case or if they were mistaken)

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I will be honest, I'm not that thrilled with this thread on account of the fact that anything I do will feel like "proof-texting". The bottom line is Luther wrote oodles of stuff, there is just so much to use that to ask for specific quotes to prove ourselves "Lutheran" I could honestly make churches of other backgrounds look "Lutheran".

But for the sake of this thread I will pose an example and offer some links:

From his famous tract Freedom of a Christian Luther writes:
"A Christian is the most free Lord of all, subject to none.
A Christian is the most dutiful servant of all, and subject to everyone."

The ELCA embraces the notion of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. It encounters reality with the freeing power of the gospel and structures its worship, theology, and life around this reality. Ultimately, it makes its decisions (the good and the bad) on the basis that we are a broken and diverse people, who have only one hope in life, a gracious and merciful God.
But the ELCA recognizes that we do not live in isolation, rather, we live in a broken world where God's Law and justice are ignored. Thus, it never stops at being saved, but always follows that up with the question "What about your neighbor" for ultimately, that is why we are still here. We are freed so that our lives may be spent for their sake instead of our own. This has caused the ELCA to be very aware of issues in relation to social justice. Where it has turned its attention particularly to the outcast.
This is sort of a general statement, but it seemed that the thread wanted some generalizations.
Here are some relevant links from the ELCA webpage:
This one, while it does not quote Luther, lays out a few foundational Lutheran beliefs and acknowledges the Lutheran Confessions as the true witness to the Gospel.
ELCA Confession of Faith - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Below is a site with a link to the new statement on sexuality: gift and trust that is being presented to the churchwide assembly this summer. In relevance to this thread I would recommend reading section II: A Distinctly Lutheran Approach, which will give you an example of using Lutheran theology and quoting Luther which is what you were asking for. Other people might lift up other statements and such (which might even be better to lift up ones that have passed through the assembly) but I had recently read this one and remembered that section.
Recommended Proposed Social Statement - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Hope this helps.
Pax

 

[JacksLadder]

I will be honest, I'm not that thrilled with this thread on account of the fact that anything I do will feel like "proof-texting". The bottom line is Luther wrote oodles of stuff, there is just so much to use that to ask for specific quotes to prove ourselves "Lutheran" I could honestly make churches of other backgrounds look "Lutheran".

But for the sake of this thread I will pose an example and offer some links:

From his famous tract Freedom of a Christian Luther writes:
"A Christian is the most free Lord of all, subject to none.
A Christian is the most dutiful servant of all, and subject to everyone."

The ELCA embraces the notion of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. It encounters reality with the freeing power of the gospel and structures its worship, theology, and life around this reality. Ultimately, it makes its decisions (the good and the bad) on the basis that we are a broken and diverse people, who have only one hope in life, a gracious and merciful God.
But the ELCA recognizes that we do not live in isolation, rather, we live in a broken world where God's Law and justice are ignored. Thus, it never stops at being saved, but always follows that up with the question "What about your neighbor" for ultimately, that is why we are still here. We are freed so that our lives may be spent for their sake instead of our own. This has caused the ELCA to be very aware of issues in relation to social justice. Where it has turned its attention particularly to the outcast.
This is sort of a general statement, but it seemed that the thread wanted some generalizations.
Here are some relevant links from the ELCA webpage:
This one, while it does not quote Luther, lays out a few foundational Lutheran beliefs and acknowledges the Lutheran Confessions as the true witness to the Gospel.
ELCA Confession of Faith - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Below is a site with a link to the new statement on sexuality: gift and trust that is being presented to the churchwide assembly this summer. In relevance to this thread I would recommend reading section II: A Distinctly Lutheran Approach, which will give you an example of using Lutheran theology and quoting Luther which is what you were asking for. Other people might lift up other statements and such (which might even be better to lift up ones that have passed through the assembly) but I had recently read this one and remembered that section.
Recommended Proposed Social Statement - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Hope this helps.
Pax

Thanks I finally got around to reading this tonight. It is interesting to see how they approach the differing situations.

I loved this quote from your post

From his famous tract Freedom of a Christian Luther writes:
"A Christian is the most free Lord of all, subject to none.
A Christian is the most dutiful servant of all, and subject to everyone."

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I loved this quote from your post

THen you love Luther, I was quoting him.
But yes, it is a beautiful quote, and how much about faith it reveals is amazing.
pax

 

[Livindesert]

I recently read that Luther was not against church tradition but that he was against tradition trumping scripture. That his sucessors were more extream than he was and took a lot of his work out of context. Is this true?

Hope you don't mind me butting in on this forum

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I recently read that Luther was not against church tradition but that he was against tradition trumping scripture. That his sucessors were more extream than he was and took a lot of his work out of context. Is this true?

Hope you don't mind me butting in on this forum

Basically that's right.

For Luther, Scripture was the source and norm of all doctrine. Tradition that did not contradict Scripture was acceptable.

Later reformers, some of them Lutheran, did go much further than Luther himself.


ETA:

Luther's reforms were really fairly modest. He made Justification by Grace the central article of his belief. He placed the authority of Scripture above that of the Pope. He allowed for married clergy (which has, I think, always been an option in some quarters of the RC church) and reduced the number of Sacraments to the two that had biblical warrant. He translated both the Bible and the Mass into the vernacular. That's pretty much it.

To the end of his life, Martin Luther considered himself a good catholic. That the Pope disagreed did not matter to Luther.

I have sometimes speculated that, had Leo X been wiser, there would be no Lutheran church. An earlier Pope gave Francis of Assisi a free hand to reform the Church. As a result, there is a Franciscan order, but not a Franciscan church. Had Leo X slacked the reins on Luther, Lutheranism might also be an order within the Church of Rome--a movement rather than a denomination.

In the 1980s I heard Fr. Avery Dulles, SJ say that after 450 years the reformation of Martin Luther could be considered a success in the Church of Rome. I think that Dulles overstated the case, but many of Luther's reforms have been adopted by Rome.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

I was reading vol. 3 "What Luther Says" under the philosophers.

I was surprised to read what he thought of Cicero. He really leaves the barn door open on that one.

ELCA and universalism. Leaves you plenty of room.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I was reading vol. 3 "What Luther Says" under the philosophers.

I was surprised to read what he thought of Cicero. He really leaves the barn door open on that one.

ELCA and universalism. Leaves you plenty of room.

I think that the thing that keeps Luther, and the ELCA, from universalism is a healthy respect for God's sovereignty. But considering that Luther said that even dangerous heretics might be saved, you're right, the door is open.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

I have wrestled with this and think I have put it back together.

Luther is speaking perhaps of God's sovereignty that He could if He so desired to save Cicero or anyone else, He certainly could. But He binds His Church to His Word and the means of grace and we are not to think of anyother way. To count on God having others ways would be universalism. Luther is just hoping? Maybe that's the difference.

Think there is room for more thoughts in this "soup".

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I have wrestled with this and think I have put it back together.

Luther is speaking perhaps of God's sovereignty that He could if He so desired to save Cicero or anyone else, He certainly could. But He binds His Church to His Word and the means of grace and we are not to think of anyother way. To count on God having others ways would be universalism. Luther is just hoping? Maybe that's the difference.

Think there is room for more thoughts in this "soup".

Stir in the distinction between temporal and eternal salvation. We don't know who is saved eternally. We have some sense of who is saved temporally...ourselves and those who, like us, are assured of God's grace by faith which is the work of the Holy Spirit.

It would have been nice if Luther had written a Systematic Theology...but then, it wouldn't have been Luther.