Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

Mr.SteveSir · Jun 15, 2011

The sixth hour refered to in Mark must mean something else. Jesus was dead by 3 pm, He would not have hung there until midnight. The Jewish leaders would be concerned about having dead bodies on crosses after sundown, the start of Passover. This is evidenced by the thieves legs being broken so they would die quickly and be buried before sundown as well. The Jewish leaders would want this done due to OT law
Deut. 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
You bring up an interesting point though. Did Romans tell time differently that Jews?

granpa · Jun 15, 2011

I am saying that he died at midnight, the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt

granpa said:
Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.

john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour. Thats noon.
Then Jesus was led away to be crucified.
According to Mark Jesus was crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm.
(He cant have been crucified before he was led away)

There was darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour.
The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.
The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt).

Apr 35 of the year 31 had a partial lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30.
(well after sunset)

there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover.
(unless they had a very long winter)

Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer for ASIA

granpa said:
there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover.
(unless they had a very long winter)

Click to expand...

I am starting to wonder if there might not be something to this.
a long winter could be due to a volcanic eruption similar to
Extreme weather events of 535–536

if the sun was dark that year that could lead to confusion over the 'darkness from 6th to 9th hour'.
people would naturally assume it was referring to the sun being dark when it was actually a lunar eclipse.

Timetable_of_major_worldwide_volcanic_eruptions

granpa said:
this would also have parallels with
The Exodus Decoded - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Minoan eruption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Year Without a Summer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

granpa said:
here is something interesting that i found
Luke 23 Interlinear Bible

it says the sabbath "was beginning" but when i look up "beginning" it says 'to dawn'.

in other words the sabbath was about to dawn.

granpa said:
mark 15 says that 'when evening (late) was come"
but when I look at the interlinear it says
"evening having already come"

granpa · Jun 15, 2011

deleted duplicate post

Goinheix · Jun 15, 2011

granpa said:
Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.

john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour. Thats noon.
Then Jesus was led away to be crucified.
According to Mark Jesus was crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm.
(He cant have been crucified before he was led away)

There was darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour.
The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.
The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt).

Apr 35 of the year 31 had a partial lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30.
(well after sunset)

there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover.
(unless they had a very long winter)

Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer for ASIA

from wokipedia:
The Romans also used a 12-hour clock: daylight was divided into 12 equal hours (of, thus, varying length throughout the year) and the night was divided into four watches. The Romans numbered the morning hours originally in reverse. For example, "3 a.m." or "3 hours ante meridiem" meant "three hours before noon", compared to the modern usage of "three hours into the first 12-hour period of the day"

(NOTE: "The Romans also" does not mean that the Romans have two systems. It refers to Mesopotamia, Egypt and Roman also).

The Hebrew, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Mesopotamians had the same time system of all ancient civilizations. They did count 12 hoiurs from sunrise to sunset. That is absolutely unquestionable and any theory saying different has not any support at all.

In the Gospels, the time system is exactly the same. We can read that clearly in Matthew 20. For Jesus (according to Matthew) the 3rd, sixth, nineth, and elevendth hour are the 9Am, noon, 3pm and 5pm. Then we have to asume that when Mathew say Jesus was crucified by the 3rd hour necesarely means 9am. And when the synoptics say the same, necesarely means the same (unless Jesus were crucified several times)

John is using the same time system. In 11:9, the day, wich is the light period, has 12 hours (from 1st to 12th). Those are words of Jesus included by John.

There is not any internal evidence in the entire Bible and Gospels pointing to a different time system. Also there is not any external information indicating any other time system in all the ancient world.

What we have to understan is that Jesus was at Pilates by 12noon and that Jesus was crucified by 9am. How is that possible? The answer is very simple: Jesus was crucified next morning after being at Pilates.

That goes against all the traditional view of Jesus being crucified the very same day of his arrest. In my trhead "Pasion on 20th Nissan"
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548976/
it is discussed all the internal evidences of the real trial to Jesus. In that thread I expose how the Gospels describe a trial that lasted several days, almost a week.

I invite you to visit and participate. But even if you dont...get this:there is not any support at all to concider the 9th hour as the 9pm.

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

Luke 23:52-54

King James Version (KJV)

52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

granpa said:
here is something interesting that i found
Luke 23 Interlinear Bible

it says the sabbath "was beginning" but when i look up "beginning" it says 'to dawn'.

in other words the sabbath was about to dawn.

this makes sense because he was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and he arose on sunday morning at dawn.

Matthew 12:40

King James Version (KJV)

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 16:2

King James Version (KJV)

2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

Goinheix said:
from wokipedia:
The Romans also used a 12-hour clock: daylight was divided into 12 equal hours (of, thus, varying length throughout the year) and the night was divided into four watches. The Romans numbered the morning hours originally in reverse. For example, "3 a.m." or "3 hours ante meridiem" meant "three hours before noon", compared to the modern usage of "three hours into the first 12-hour period of the day"

(NOTE: "The Romans also" does not mean that the Romans have two systems. It refers to Mesopotamia, Egypt and Roman also).

The Hebrew, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Mesopotamians had the same time system of all ancient civilizations. They did count 12 hoiurs from sunrise to sunset. That is absolutely unquestionable and any theory saying different has not any support at all.

In the Gospels, the time system is exactly the same. We can read that clearly in Matthew 20. For Jesus (according to Matthew) the 3rd, sixth, nineth, and elevendth hour are the 9Am, noon, 3pm and 5pm. Then we have to asume that when Mathew say Jesus was crucified by the 3rd hour necesarely means 9am. And when the synoptics say the same, necesarely means the same (unless Jesus were crucified several times)

John is using the same time system. In 11:9, the day, wich is the light period, has 12 hours (from 1st to 12th). Those are words of Jesus included by John.

There is not any internal evidence in the entire Bible and Gospels pointing to a different time system. Also there is not any external information indicating any other time system in all the ancient world.

What we have to understan is that Jesus was at Pilates by 12noon and that Jesus was crucified by 9am. How is that possible? The answer is very simple: Jesus was crucified next morning after being at Pilates.

That goes against all the traditional view of Jesus being crucified the very same day of his arrest. In my trhead "Pasion on 20th Nissan"
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548976/
it is discussed all the internal evidences of the real trial to Jesus. In that thread I expose how the Gospels describe a trial that lasted several days, almost a week.

I invite you to visit and participate. But even if you dont...get this:there is not any support at all to concider the 9th hour as the 9pm.

All you are saying is grong because it is base on the lie that the 3rd hour is 3pm and th 9th is 9pm. Also you are ignoring in porpose my replay concerning the dawn of the sabbath.

Your intentions are to decieve the brother with a number of lies that have been revealed by the light and you prefer the darkness of your machinations.

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

I am not saying that the 3rd hour (absolute) is 3pm.
I am saying that the 3rd hour (relative) after he saw pilate (at the 6th hour which was noon) was 3pm.

and the 6th hour (relative) after he was crucified (at 3pm) was 9pm.

these are relative times not absolute times.

you are deliberately misrepresenting my view.

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

There is not any example in the Bible of refering time to a specific moment or situation.
Also in the Gospels there is not any indication of relativity of time. No where we read "the tird hour after being before pilates".
Also being before Pilates is not such a crucial event as to take it as relative cero.
Also Jesus was before Pilates by noon and only John say that and is all the synoptics using the 3rd hour relative to a event they dont mention.
Also Jesus were before Pilates not only by noon but even later.
To finish this nonsence. If Jesus died by 9pm, then it was already sabbath for 6 hours, since sunset.

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

granpa said:
john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour. Thats noon.
Then Jesus was led away to be crucified.
According to Mark Jesus was crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm.
(He cant have been crucified before he was led away)

There was darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour.
The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.
The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt).

You say that Jesus was before Pilates by noon.
The 3rd hour, that is three hour later is 3pm and Jesus is crucified.
The 6th hour, that is six hours later from crucifixion is 9pm.
The darkness lasted until the 9th at the cross, that is 12midnight.

You say that Jesus died by midnight. How is that He was placed in the tumb before the sabbath commenced? Because a day commences by sunset.

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

granpa said:
(He cant have been crucified before he was led away)

Jesus was crcified by 9am (3rd hour) next morning.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548976/

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

For Gods sake Goinheix, what have I been talking about for days and days.
Dont you read what I post?

I talked specifically about this in posts 28 and 45
and in post 10 of this thread
http://www.christianforums.com/t7564817/#post57628438

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

Goinheix said:
Jesus was crcified by 9am (3rd hour) next morning.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548976/

That is your position and I respect that but based on all the available evidence I am inclined to think otherwise.
I think its probably important somehow that he died when the angel of death went through the land of Egypt.

If you disagree then I am fine with that.

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

I'm not sure if I've already posted these so I'll post them now.

0031 April 25 Partial Lunar Eclipse - Interactive Google Map - Xavier Jubier

0029 June 14 Total Lunar Eclipse - Interactive Google Map - Xavier Jubier

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

granpa said:
That is your position and I respect that but based on all the available evidence I am inclined to think otherwise.
I think its probably important somehow that he died when the angel of death went through the land of Egypt.

If you disagree then I am fine with that.

The available evidence is that jesus was put in the seplcre minutes before sunset. What about that piece of evidence?

granpa · Jun 16, 2011

I've already addressed that multiple times
and you just keep repeating the same questions over and over
as though I hadnt said anything.

I'm done talking to you.
this conversation is over.

Goinheix · Jun 16, 2011

granpa said:
I've already addressed that multiple times
and you just keep repeating the same questions over and over
as though I hadnt said anything.

I'm done talking to you.
this conversation is over.

if you answer at least ones

PaladinValer · Jun 17, 2011

Granpa, nice idea, but it is plain that Jesus died on a FRIDAY, not a Wednesday.

It therefore cannot be anything that significant.

Sorry...

Steve Petersen · Jun 17, 2011

Jesus dying at midnight is a nice idea, seeing that Israel left Egypt at the same time.

But if you look into the details of the slaughter of the Congregational Passover lamb, it is bound to the altar about midday and slaughtered at about 3 pm.

That is a pretty picture also.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Steve Petersen said:
Jesus dying at midnight is a nice idea, seeing that Israel left Egypt at the same time.

But if you look into the details of the slaughter of the Congregational Passover lamb, it is bound to the altar about midday and slaughtered at about 3 pm.

That is a pretty picture also.

The hour of crucifixion is not something that can be choose by us according to what we concider nice or pretty. Neither can be determonet by the astrological chart of Jesus, and the positions of the planets in the zodiac.

We have the Gospels, for of them, and all of them sat that Christ gives his spirit right before sunset. That is it.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

PaladinValer said:
Granpa, nice idea, but it is plain that Jesus died on a FRIDAY, not a Wednesday.

It therefore cannot be anything that significant.

Sorry...

Actally, Jesus was crucified on thrsday.

Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

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