Lukewarm

[nosolostsoul]

Revelation 3:16New International Version (NIV)

16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Would God be considered lukewarm with the way he says he will punish sinners but forgive them?

Is his Grace towards the just and unjust, considered lukewarm?

If not, can you explain how not?

 

[dysert]

To understand this verse you have pay attention to the geographic context of Laodicea. Laodicea, located beside the Lycus River, was a prosperous city about forty miles south of Philadelphia. It had a well-respected financial center, thriving textile production industry (specializing in black wool), and a leading medical school that produced a famous eye salve. Two other cities were in this general area: Colossae, known for its mountain spring of cold, fresh water; and Hierapolis, a site famous for its hot, therapeutic mineral springs.

Laodicea had no water supply of its own, so it had to get its water via aquaducts from Colossae and Hierapolis. Unfortunately, the cold water from Colossae and the hot water from Hierapolis were both lukewarm by the time it got to Laodicea.

Rev. 3:16 isn't about grace or salvation, it's about *usefulness*. Hot water was useful for bathing, cleaning, etc. Cold water was useful for drinking and refreshment. Lukewarm water was relatively useless. Jesus was saying He wanted the church to be useful, i.e., either like hot water or cold water. Tepid water didn't fit the bill.

 

[Tolworth John]

Revelation 3:16New International Version (NIV)

16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Would God be considered lukewarm with the way he says he will punish sinners but forgive them?

Is his Grace towards the just and unjust, considered lukewarm?

If not, can you explain how not?

Carry on reading revelation and you'll find that God rewards those who are faithfull Christians and punishes all who are not Christian.
The discriptions in revelation or Jesus's parabels about punishment cannot be discribed as lukewarm.

 

[nosolostsoul]

But then those Christians that go to church on Sundays, pray for blessings to benefit them, yet run around in known sin to them, with no plans on changing, get to one day be like, I believed in you as my savior and trusted you Lord and he just forgives them and blesses them?

I don't get it.

 

[Serving Zion]

But then those Christians that go to church on Sundays, pray for blessings to benefit them, yet run around in known sin to them, with no plans on changing, get to one day be like, I believed in you as my savior and trusted you Lord and he just forgives them and blesses them?

I don't get it.

Think about this:

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:5-7

I personally find it encouraging that lots of people are speaking about these things, as you are, and not submitting to the persecutions of falsehood by the lost ones in the churches. It is precisely this endurance to not forsake the gathering of the brethren, that brings The Word of God into the midst of such a crooked and perverse generation.

In this you rejoice, even if now for a little while you have had to suffer various trials, so that the genuineness of your faith—being more precious than gold that, though perishable, is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Peter 1:6-7

This also might be useful to think about:

 

[Serving Zion]

Would God be considered lukewarm with the way he says he will punish sinners but forgive them?

Is his Grace towards the just and unjust, considered lukewarm?

Can you show us the verses you have for this, that seem to be inconsistent?

 

[nosolostsoul]

To understand this verse you have pay attention to the geographic context of Laodicea. Laodicea, located beside the Lycus River, was a prosperous city about forty miles south of Philadelphia. It had a well-respected financial center, thriving textile production industry (specializing in black wool), and a leading medical school that produced a famous eye salve. Two other cities were in this general area: Colossae, known for its mountain spring of cold, fresh water; and Hierapolis, a site famous for its hot, therapeutic mineral springs.

Laodicea had no water supply of its own, so it had to get its water via aquaducts from Colossae and Hierapolis. Unfortunately, the cold water from Colossae and the hot water from Hierapolis were both lukewarm by the time it got to Laodicea.

Rev. 3:16 isn't about grace or salvation, it's about *usefulness*. Hot water was useful for bathing, cleaning, etc. Cold water was useful for drinking and refreshment. Lukewarm water was relatively useless. Jesus was saying He wanted the church to be useful, i.e., either like hot water or cold water. Tepid water didn't fit the bill.

So it's not about sinners who flip-flop with their faith? I'm still confused. So "false Christians" would not be considered "lukewarm"? Being that their faith is more as convenience as to truly submitting, and even while doing this their salvation is still paid for? So are we really going to be accountable for our sins? Or can we be all the way hot for God or all the way cold, and by being either or, we still will be saved?

Maybe the way most use the "Lukewarm" term is my problem? I thought it was either your with God or not, and God don't like that trying to play both. You can't work for two masters.

 

[dysert]

So it's not about sinners who flip-flop with their faith? I'm still confused. So "false Christians" would not be considered "lukewarm"? Being that their faith is more as convenience as to truly submitting, and even while doing this their salvation is still paid for? So are we really going to be accountable for our sins? Or can we be all the way hot for God or all the way cold, and by being either or, we still will be saved?

Maybe the way most use the "Lukewarm" term is my problem? I thought it was either your with God or not, and God don't like that trying to play both. You can't work for two masters.

No, it's not about sinners who flip-flop with their faith. Granted, that's how most people interpret the letter to Laodicea, but you have to take the letter in the context of when it was written. First, the letter is written to a *church* so by definition it was written to believers. Second, you can't lose your salvation (that's fodder for another thread), so you really can't flip-flop. Third, what I told you about the water is true, so it makes sense that Jesus would refer to Laodicea's lukewarm water.

I don't know what a "false Christian" is. You're either saved or your not. "We" really are accountable for how we live. A Christian will be judged on their behaviors to determine the level of rewards they'll get. A non-Christian will be judged on their behaviors to determine the level of punishment they'll get. (I can support this from Scripture if you don't accept it.)

Lots of people use the term "lukewarm Christian" like they use the term "backslidden Christian", but those terms only confuse the issue. Remember, you're a Christian or your not. Once that is determined now you can determine how Christ-like you're living (if you're a Christian) or how moral you're living (if you're not).

Where is the confusion?

 

[nosolostsoul]

No, it's not about sinners who flip-flop with their faith. Granted, that's how most people interpret the letter to Laodicea, but you have to take the letter in the context of when it was written. First, the letter is written to a *church* so by definition it was written to believers. Second, you can't lose your salvation (that's fodder for another thread), so you really can't flip-flop. Third, what I told you about the water is true, so it makes sense that Jesus would refer to Laodicea's lukewarm water.

I don't know what a "false Christian" is. You're either saved or your not. "We" really are accountable for how we live. A Christian will be judged on their behaviors to determine the level of rewards they'll get. A non-Christian will be judged on their behaviors to determine the level of punishment they'll get. (I can support this from Scripture if you don't accept it.)

Lots of people use the term "lukewarm Christian" like they use the term "backslidden Christian", but those terms only confuse the issue. Remember, you're a Christian or your not. Once that is determined now you can determine how Christ-like you're living (if you're a Christian) or how moral you're living (if you're not).

Where is the confusion?

The confusion would be in the way some shorten scripture or misuse it. Even in church. My question comes from me wanting to understand more. I'm finding I have to strip away what I have picked up from others and seek God's truth. This is not easy. It's as if my mind is set with tunnel vision of how God is just all great and as if we don't have to put in work just ask. I'm learning now there is more to it. So many are misinformed, just practicing religion and not truly seeking God. So I get confused between what I have already been taught by MAN and what is being taught by God.

Thank you for explaining. I will definitely have to go back and review scripture and make sure I use the CONTEXT, which it is being said.

 

[Serving Zion]

So it's not about sinners who flip-flop with their faith? I'm still confused. So "false Christians" would not be considered "lukewarm"? Being that their faith is more as convenience as to truly submitting, and even while doing this their salvation is still paid for? So are we really going to be accountable for our sins? Or can we be all the way hot for God or all the way cold, and by being either or, we still will be saved?

Maybe the way most use the "Lukewarm" term is my problem? I thought it was either your with God or not, and God don't like that trying to play both. You can't work for two masters.

Hello nolostsoul, I would like to give some more answer toward this because I think you're on the right track, and I can add to what dysert has said, for you.

Within the church, is those who as you have seen, are Christian for human reasons but not really for God (See this in John 1:13). These ones who don't really cling to Christ and stay in repentance, they don't retain The Holy Spirit, they act for their own interests and effectively take the name of God for their own vain pursuits. (Jude 1:3-4, Jude 1:19-22 etc).

Philippians 1:15-18 shows that there is two types of Christian: the saintly and the carnal. This is what Jesus is saying about being lukewarm: that is, to not really engage in the battle for dominance (Jude 1:3).

 

[Phil 1:21]

But then those Christians that go to church on Sundays, pray for blessings to benefit them, yet run around in known sin to them, with no plans on changing, get to one day be like, I believed in you as my savior and trusted you Lord and he just forgives them and blesses them?

I don't get it.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’