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Luke and Acts are not inspired

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Aaron11, Jul 9, 2003.

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  1. Aaron11

    Aaron11 Well-Known Member

    +8
    How did God choose what to put in the bible and what to leave out? (I don't mean why would he put some in and leave others out. I mean, how did He tell you and I which books are inspired?
     
  2. Debi

    Debi New Member

    76
    +1

    Aaron,

    God did not instruct me to write or translate any of the Epsitles, Yet, he did say that HE would perserve His Words.

    Rom 9:19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? V 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? V21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass ( lump) one vessel of beauty and distinction and honourable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonoralbe use?

    Titus 1:1-3 Paul, A servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledgement of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of etenal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested His Word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour.

    2 Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethern, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly and not after the tradition which he recieved of us .

    I Thess 2:13... When ye recieve the word of God which ye heard of us, ye recieved it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God , which effecturally worketh also in you that believe.

    Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you to fulfil the word of God .

    Is God's Wisdom higher than Man? Do you believe that He chose Paul as a vessel of Honor Acts 9:15. Can he not chose anyone He desires?


    We have to trust and have faith in God. These books has been test through much trial and time, God knows what he wants for us and has guided those he appointed to but the book together. God CANNOT lie.
     
  3. Aaron11

    Aaron11 Well-Known Member

    +8
    I wonder why if God promised us a perfect book in the future, why He did not tell us about it. I know you say that His words will be preserved, and I buy that. However, who is to say that those words are the bible, and no other words are left out?

    The point is, you basically have to believe that the men who put the bible together were inspired. I hear some people who believe this. Is this what you believe?
     
  4. Debi

    Debi New Member

    76
    +1
    II Tim 3:16-17 ALL SCRIPTURE is given by INSPIRIATON OF GOD and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteounesss.

    yes, I believe it, It is scriptural. Paul was given the assignment to "fulfil the Word of God" and God is not man that He would lie. God has given us to that which has ordain for us. Why is that difficult for you to believe and have faith in God? Do you believe man's will and desire is more powerful than God's?

    Aaron,

    The point is that you MUST BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH IN GOD, if you put your faith in man you will be disappointed. God can do what He has promise.

    Scriptures that state God is capable of perserving that knowledge He ordains for His Saints.

    Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of HIS WILL, according to HIS GOOD PLEASURE which he HATH PURPOSED in HIMSELF.

    Eph 1:11......According to the PURPOSE of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL.


    Prv 22:12 The eyes of the Lord keep guard over Knowledge and him who has it, but HE overthrows the words of the treacherous.

    Ps 12:6 The words and promises of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in an earthen furnance, purified even times over
    v7 You will keep them and preserve them, O Lord; You will guard and keep us from this evil generation forever


    Ps 119:137 Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.

    Ish 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing wherto I sent it.

    Ish 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
     
  5. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

    +228
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    And I have offered Scripture to document the oral teachings of the Apostles. Do you have any evidence that all of the Apostles' teaching was written down?

    I believe that Scripture is the center of the Sacred Tradition handed down by the Apostles. I have offered Scriptural proof of the two fold ( written and unwritten ) nature of this tradition. For example, see my sig. You have yet to offer any evidence that all of the Apostles' teachings were written down. Do you have any evidence?

    Once again, St Paul made it quite clear that we are to maintain all he taught. As my sig demonstrates, some of that was in the Epistles. So of it was by word of mouth.

    No one is claiming that God is not able to preserve His Scriptures. Rather, I am asking why did He promise to preserve the Church? Why didn't He make the same promise for His written words?



    You do realize that the Greek word used here, logos refers to the spoken word, not the written, don't you?

    Then Paul goes on to write:
    28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

    Again, Paul speaks of oral teaching, not the written word.

    Colossians 4:16 Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

    Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, gives explicit instructions to the Colossians to read an Epistle that does not appear in the Bible. Why is that?

    BTW, I am still waiting for Scripture that states that Scripture contains all we need to know of God.


    No one is claiming that Pail forgot to deliver anything. Rather, I am stating that he did not write it all down. Paul himself wrote that we were to keep what was taught by word of mouth. Even Christ instructed the Apostles to teach. He never instructed them to write.

    Again, no one is questioning God's ability to preserve His word. Rather, I question is He chose to preserve it all in a written form.

    Counsel: etsah in Hebrew. It means "advice" or "purpose". No indication of written word.

     
  6. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

    +228
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Only His written words, or the spoken ones as well? Lets see what the Scriptures you quoted have to say:

    No mention of words here, either written or spoken.

    Word: Logos in Greek. It refers to a spoken words, a speak, teachings, or the thoughts in one's mind. It does not refer to writings.

    Preaching: kerugma in Greek. The proclamation of a herald or public crier. In others words, spoken, not written.

    Traditions: paradosis in Greek, refers to both spoken and written teachings. It should be pointed out that the Jewish scholars (such as Paul) used the word paradosis to refer to the oral teachings of Moses.

    "Which you heard"? Sounds like oral teaching again. By the way, "word" in this passage is logos. I addressed its meaning above.

    .

    logos, again.

    Again, all of the verses you have offered refer to the oral teachings of the Apostles. You have yet to offer any evidence that all of their teachings were written down. In fact, the verses you have posted seem to argue the other way, that the Apostles passed some of their teachings on orally. Couldn't God preserve these oral teachings as well? On what basis do you claim that He hasn't?
     
  7. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

    +228
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Here, you are completely correct. God has preserved all of the knowledge that He handed down. However, there is nowhere in Scripture that indicates that all of that knowledge was written down. Much of it has been preserved orally.
     
  8. Florida College

    Florida College Guest

    +0
    Aaron11,

    If the books of Luke and Acts are accurate like you say, then are there any particular verses in those books that you do not belief, follow, or obey? If so, which ones?

    So, are you saying that Paul was freelancing, and not preaching and writing under the Holy Spirit's direction? What basis do you have to make that conclusion?

    FC
     
  9. Aaron11

    Aaron11 Well-Known Member

    +8

    Yes.

    Luke 5:4 When He had finished speaking, He said to Simon, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch."

    There is an example of a command that I do not follow that is recorded in the accurate account of Luke.

     
  10. Dominus Fidelis

    Dominus Fidelis ScottBot is Stalking Me!

    +375
    Catholic
    Married
    So do you use a Catholic Bible, with ALL the books from the Council in 397?
     
  11. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    What do you believe this command says?
     
  12. Aaron11

    Aaron11 Well-Known Member

    +8
    The command is not mystical or hidden. The command says to put your nets into deep water. The point is, the Bible wasn't all written directly to me, to Knight, to Florida College, or to any particular person. Instead, it was written to Theopholis, the Romans, Corinthians, Jews, Timothy, the seven churches of Asia, etc. This means that we have to take the Bible in its proper context and gather the principles behind the teachings to apply the principles to our lives.
     
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