Luke 9:23 8:31 8:4

[ywl]

9:23 carry cross? deny ourselves? How to understand this sentence and how to do it? We are not persecuted or anything, what should we do?

8:31 The evil spirit can beg Jesus and Jesus showed mercy on them. What are these evil spirits? Why Jesus will show pity on them. Aren't them Jesus's enemy? Will Jesus also go to save those unsaved ones?

8:4 The parable of soil describe 4 kind of people, are any other than the last kind saved? We always say whoever believed is saved. This salvation is secured at that very moment. How 'believed' is 'believed'? Which moment is that moment?

Sorry to make a thread of so many questions. Thank you.

 

[asiyreh]

9:23 carry cross? deny ourselves? How to understand this sentence and how to do it? We are not persecuted or anything, what should we do?

8:31 The evil spirit can beg Jesus and Jesus showed mercy on them. What are these evil spirits? Why Jesus will show pity on them. Aren't them Jesus's enemy? Will Jesus also go to save those unsaved ones?

8:4 The parable of soil describe 4 kind of people, are any other than the last kind saved? We always say whoever believed is saved. This salvation is secured at that very moment. How 'believed' is 'believed'? Which moment is that moment?

Sorry to make a thread of so many questions. Thank you.

I'll start with the last first if you don't mind.

Try not to be so rigid with your understanding of these parables Ywl. Yes often they're describing types of people as you understand the parable but I myself and I suspect quite a number of our brothers and sisters here, have experienced a growing faith.

At one time or another I've experienced a type of faith that could be described using all those metaphors.

My first experience of faith, I was very eager as I wolfed down the Word, sermons, lectures etc. My faith sprang up quickly

Then my faith was crushed for a while by some Muslim well versed in bible study. I had no solid grounding.

Then after a while my faith grew up again slowly as I carefully studied the damage he inflicted and understood the passages in the light of the Holy spirit and correct textual critique. But I was still playing in the mud.

Then I joined an adventist Church. Adventists are very works righteous and they helped me move toward sanctification and I'm still growing in that area.

When Christ spoke in parables, often these things have a surface understanding but also a deeper significance to your own personal growth in knowledge and wisdom.

Christ is a deserner of the heart. He knows what type of faith you have. Don't be so worried about who'll be damned and who won't. People often use the verse judge not lest you be judged as a way to say don't judge my actions. I believe it means don't attempt to pronounce final judgement on anyone for that job is Christ's alone.

 

[asiyreh]

8:31 The evil spirit can beg Jesus and Jesus showed mercy on them. What are these evil spirits? Why Jesus will show pity on them. Aren't them Jesus's enemy? Will Jesus also go to save those unsaved ones?

Reading on from the verse you mentioned:-

A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Lol hilarious one of the funniest passages in the new testament and people wonder if God didn't have a scene of humor. I think we'd call that getting played.

 

[asiyreh]

Luke 9:23 - Jesus knows where the paths of this world will take you. Instead allow the holy spirit to move you toward the image of Christ and make every effort to keep Sin from your life. If you fall get up again and follow Christ.

for though a righteous man falls seven times, he rises again, but the wicked are brought down by calamity. Proverbs 24:16

 

[timf]

9:23 carry cross? deny ourselves? How to understand this sentence and how to do it? We are not persecuted or anything, what should we do?

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

8:31 The evil spirit can beg Jesus and Jesus showed mercy on them. What are these evil spirits? Why Jesus will show pity on them. Aren't them Jesus's enemy? Will Jesus also go to save those unsaved ones?

We don't have very much information about the angels at all including the ones that we can assume are "non-elect". Jesus does show kindness, but we are not given any information that would indicate that those angels that sided with Satan and rebelled against God have an opportunity to be saved.

8:4 The parable of soil describe 4 kind of people, are any other than the last kind saved? We always say whoever believed is saved. This salvation is secured at that very moment. How 'believed' is 'believed'? Which moment is that moment?

1. Seed does not germinate.
2. Seed does not take root.
3. Seed grows but is fruitless.
4. Seed produces fruit.

Some say only number four are saved. I can see a case for number three and four. The Bible says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. when faith comes there is salvation. We are told that if our Christian life is unfruitful, we will still be saved as if through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Emmy]

Dear ywl. You had some good replies, Jesus is always ready to help and guide us. All we ever have to do is to ask and receive, and thank God and share with our neighbour. i.e. " ask and ye will receive," ( Matthew 7: 7-8)
Jesus also told us in Matthew 22, verses 35-40: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets: 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves.
What does God want from us? Start by treating all we know and all we meet
as we would love to be treated: kindly and always with friendly words, helping hands and generally be a good neighbour to all, friend and not friend.
All we say or do, or advocate or stand for, should be from Love for our Heavenly Father, and from love and care, and charity for our fellow-men and
fellow-women. God sees our sincere efforts and God will approve and bless us.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. We will keep on asking and thanking God, and sharing all with our neighbour. Jesus will always help and guide, in fact: Jesus Is The Way.
I say this with love, ywl. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
P.S. Love and Obey, there is no better way.

 

[trulyconverted]

When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

I heard this from someone else...

"... even the pigs knew what to do immediately after they got possessed by the demonic spirits."

Got me thinking... so the pigs, after they died were released from the demonic influence/ demonic spirits who were to make the pigs their dwellings.

BUT WAIT - we don't need to do anything drastic.

Christ died for us (and we, Christians, died with him - SPIRITUALLY speaking). Then we were made alive in Him.

 

[ywl]

Reading on from the verse you mentioned:-

A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Lol hilarious one of the funniest passages in the new testament and people wonder if God didn't have a scene of humor. I think we'd call that getting played.

The point is not that they are allowed to go to pigs but they are not sent to abyss. If I was the owner of the pigs I wouldn't think it's funny. As a believer , I felt a little jealous why Jesus also have mercy on the evils spirits. Aren't they enemies.

 

[ywl]

Luke 9:23 - Jesus knows where the paths of this world will take you. Instead allow the holy spirit to move you toward the image of Christ and make every effort to keep Sin from your life. If you fall get up again and follow Christ.

for though a righteous man falls seven times, he rises again, but the wicked are brought down by calamity. Proverbs 24:16

I know someone understand it as some sacrificial act as 'carry the cross', which give me the feeling that having a good life is a sin. But I don't like this idea. Are Jesus telling us to do things to suffer? to go out of our way to do mission impossible. To be crazy about spreading the gospel regardless of losing job, losing money, family or everything?

 

[ywl]

Dear ywl. You had some good replies, Jesus is always ready to help and guide us. All we ever have to do is to ask and receive, and thank God and share with our neighbour. i.e. " ask and ye will receive," ( Matthew 7: 7-8)
Jesus also told us in Matthew 22, verses 35-40: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets: 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves.
What does God want from us? Start by treating all we know and all we meet
as we would love to be treated: kindly and always with friendly words, helping hands and generally be a good neighbour to all, friend and not friend.
All we say or do, or advocate or stand for, should be from Love for our Heavenly Father, and from love and care, and charity for our fellow-men and
fellow-women. God sees our sincere efforts and God will approve and bless us.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. We will keep on asking and thanking God, and sharing all with our neighbour. Jesus will always help and guide, in fact: Jesus Is The Way.
I say this with love, ywl. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
P.S. Love and Obey, there is no better way.

I heard others say if you love someone you got to tell him the gospel.

But many people hate to hear anything about God. We know that telling them gospel is only going to make things worse. shall we still do that?

 

[trulyconverted]

I heard others say if you love someone you got to tell him the gospel.

But many people hate to hear anything about God. We know that telling them gospel is only going to make things worse. shall we still do that?

As the Spirit leads you.

We can only share the gospel, but only the Lord can quicken their spirits.

But mostly in a Christian country many unbelievers have already heard about the gospel.

So as the Spirit leads.

 

[trulyconverted]

9:23 carry cross? deny ourselves? How to understand this sentence and how to do it?

These follow after salvation. We carry the cross, deny ourselves... We basically follow Jesus. We love Him above any other. We love Him above ourselves.

2John 1:6 "And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it."

We are not persecuted or anything, what should we do?

Nothing. All is under God's arrangement.

Acts 17:
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him.

8:31 The evil spirit can beg Jesus and Jesus showed mercy on them. What are these evil spirits? Why Jesus will show pity on them. Aren't them Jesus's enemy? Will Jesus also go to save those unsaved ones?

Jesus is merciful.

Heb 2:14-18 "......For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham....."

The demonic spirits that went into the pigs will eventually get their eternal punishment.

Only the Lord knows whom (persons) He will give eternal life. So He will do it in His own time.

8:4 The parable of soil describe 4 kind of people, are any other than the last kind saved? We always say whoever believed is saved. This salvation is secured at that very moment. How 'believed' is 'believed'? Which moment is that moment?

This parable of the sower is a perfect example that receiving and believing is not a guarantee to salvation.

The good soil is the one.

Which moment is that moment?
When the Lord saves us, He changes our hearts, gives us a new spirit, and puts His Spirit in our heart, He will also put His fear in our hearts so we will never go astray (all according to the bible). Now, these things occur at the time the Lord makes us born again.

In your own estimation, If in case these massive things happened to you, do you think you would not notice? Do you think there will be no changes in your whole being, in your life? And someone BIG is now indwelling you (the Holy Spirit), Do you think you also would not notice that?

It may not be a radical moment that you will notice abruptly. But there will still be a moment that you will notice it. Because basically, it's just something massive. It's God indwelling us.

Once truly saved by God, according to the bible nobody can pluck you out of God's hand (always saved).

 

[Emmy]

Dear ywl. When we love someone we always want their best. Treat them as we would love to be treated, show our love and care. We tell them about the Gospel and the wonderful way God always shows His Love to us. But we do that in our deeds and actions, the words will follow when we are asked. We always will remember to treat all we know and meet, whether friend or not friend, we always treat with Love and Charity, and words will come sooner or later: with some of us, much later. Let God lead us, and we follow Jesus all the way: Jesus Is The Way. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[ywl]

As the Spirit leads you.

We can only share the gospel, but only the Lord can quicken their spirits.

But mostly in a Christian country many unbelievers have already heard about the gospel.

So as the Spirit leads.

I agree. just I am not a quite outgoing person but the church encourage everyone to make opportunities to meet people and make friends and let them know about gospel. I felt pushed to do things that I am not comfortable with. The church advertise that people in western world may know Christ but they have not enough understanding about gospel and Christianity, especially in cities like New York. The missionary is a main topic in the church. I am just wondering is this the only thing Christians should do?

I believe the spirit is in me. So I should listen to myself instead of the pastor. Everytime I heard the words like faith alone gives salvation but faith without work is dead, I don't get it. I felt like did I get salvation? I didn't do much work, I am not entsuiastic about telling everyone about Christ. I know it's not how it works. But felt bad church keep pushing people to do so. I believe it is not right to equal God to love. God is also justice. But I believe God is more love than justice. I believe Bible is correct but not sure it is everything. There are things not included in the bible. Like bible never mention science. But science is also true. Therefore I am very hesitate to pass words related to judgement to non believers. Because I think the main theme of Bible is salvation instead of judgement. We are given a clear scope of salvation but not judgement. There are many who died not knowing Christ even the name. I don't believe they go straight down to hell. Did God hate China? There is no Christianity for thousands of years there? How about native Indians? But they all have their God to worship. Can we say that their God is for sure not our God?

 

[ywl]

Merry Christmas to you all!

 

[gypsygirl]

9:23 carry cross? deny ourselves? How to understand this sentence and how to do it? We are not persecuted or anything, what should we do?

8:4 The parable of soil describe 4 kind of people, are any other than the last kind saved? We always say whoever believed is saved. This salvation is secured at that very moment. How 'believed' is 'believed'? Which moment is that moment

Ywl, regarding the Luke passage, try reading it context through verse 26 first to grasp a better understanding. Basically, Christ is talking about how professing/confessing believers daily contend with the ever dreaded FLESH, our sinful nature that is so easily used by Satan in the world (and our minds) to pull us away from our devotion to Him. We continuously are permitted to make free decisions - serve God or serve the flesh that so easily feeds our pride and tendency to sin in general (see I John 2:16). Coming to Christ is much easier (in my opinion) than maintaining my devoted, committed relationship to Him in the face of the continuous temptations I encounter. That's where His Word and His Holy Spirit (our comforter) steps in to return me to Him. In fact, I consider the parable of the sower to be addressing this very struggle of the Christian.

Also, keep in mind that belief is separate from emotion, and "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen" (Heb 11:1). In other words, trusting in that Christ died for your sins and believing that He presently justifies you before the Father is all that is required for salvation. Remember in Genesis 15:6, Abraham had faith in God's covenant promise,and He counted Abram as righteous; yet, as he got older and got more experience with the LORD, his level of faith as demonstrated in devoted acts grew, though in the beginning Abram rebelled at times.

People tend to angst over whether or not they "feel" saved - trust me, there are always those times when carnality creates distance but God doesn't break His promises (just read the Old Testament accounts of Israel's constant rebellion!)

 

[Emmy]

Dear ywl. The very best way is always: " live the Gospel, only use words when asked."
I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[asiyreh]

Ywl I think you'd have a more comfortable faith if you became slightly more Calvinist in your understanding of scripture. Most Christians hate the idea, but I think you've the right type of mind. You'd be in good company many of the prominent Church fathers through time leaned in this direction. Please don't be offended as some people can be, it's just your asking all the right questions here at the moment.

Check out this guy

James White.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKJgC1_6NN0

 

[ywl]

Ywl I think you'd have a more comfortable faith if you became slightly more Calvinist in your understanding of scripture. Most Christians hate the idea, but I think you've the right type of mind. You'd be in good company many of the prominent Church fathers through time leaned in this direction. Please don't be offended as some people can be, it's just your asking all the right questions here at the moment.

Check out this guy

James White.

Thanks. Happy new Year to all. I guess I know why I was so confused. The church I grew up is a more Calvinistic church. The church I attend now may be not. I don't know why Calvinistic is not that popular but I like the teachings in the old church more. It tends to make bible more understandable (make more sense) instead of sticking to doctorines with brutal force, leaving no space for reasoning. I udnerstand it is safer to reason less because bible is not easy to understand. But the old church really spend lot of time to let things make sense quoting multiple scriptures, considering contexts and reason back and forth, with practical applications.

Some, who are blessed, will simply do as is told, but I am a "smart" person and will not tolerate two inconsistent idea (Paul and James) to fight in my brain. I felt cheated if someone said if you did no work you salvation may be forfeited, yes even "maybe". Because my old church told me if you believed you will have eternal life forever. Isn't it hard to tell anyone gospel when one is not sure whether he get the gospel right?