Lucifer=Babylon?

[Motus]

Isaiah chapter 14 is talking about the fall of Babylon. Then in verse 12, all of a sudden it mentions Lucifer in the same way it was just talking about Babylon. What gives? This worries me as American because many say we are that Babylon. Also, in regards to Benjamin Creme...should we be worried about him. Some of the teaching of him and maitreya seem in line with what Jesus said but then they start talking about Lucifer being inside us all and that there is no God, etc. So any views on that?

 

[seebs]

The key is to understand that the mistake of believing that Lucifer and Satan are the same thing comes from a misunderstanding of this passage. It is addressed metaphorically to a specific king of Babylon, and what is discussed happened LONG ago. It's not about us, or about anything else that's happened since the years started counting up.

 

[Motus]

Okay, I'm open to the idea that Lucifer is seperate and distinct from Satan, but it's my understanding that it was Satan who wanted to exalt himself above God, and was thusly denied exaltation completely. And that is just the way this verse describes Lucifer. Am I correct that this is the source of the misconception? Also the reason I brought up that other stuff is because the goal of one who follows New Age philosophy is to become as God, which is being like Satan. Then again, Jesus said "ye are Gods". I'm afraid I am getting more confused.

 

[Motus]

I should also state that historically, my viewpoint is that Satan is the representation of our human foolishness, greed, envy, and other bad characteristics that we got when we tainted ourselves by eating the forbidden fruit in Eden and thereby obtaining free will. In other words, Satan represents all the choices we could make which are not God's will and will lead to our destruction not just physically, but soulwise. So being cast out of the garden shows how God makes it easy for us, but when we rely on our own will is when life gets hard.

 

[seebs]

It's an analogy, not an identity. But yes, this is the source of the misconception; people didn't understand the context of this passage.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Well, Lucifer just means "morning star" I believe, so it can refer to a variety of things, in this context meaning something with great pride, I believe. Just because the term was used in reference to Satan does not mean the two words are synonymous. In fact that would be particularly troubling if it were true, since I believe that the term "morning star" was even used once to describe Jesus (because he is the light of the world and all that), though I can't quite remember the verse. So without even considering what time Revelation is written to, or what Babylon is identified with, there's no reason to suppose that it is Satan.

 

[seebs]

Yes, Jesus is indeed referred to that way elsewhere.

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

Actually, Lucifer means "light bearer", And is the "morning star", or the planet Venus, a "star" that can be sometimes seen with the naked eye at dawn. The King of Babylon (who the name Lucifer is used as a satirical metaphor for) had some royal titles, one of which was "Day Star, Son of the Morning."

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Motus]

Thanks Cerridwen, that makes the most sense to me and is certainly more helpful than seebs' one-liners.

 

[seebs]

Thanks Cerridwen, that makes the most sense to me and is certainly more helpful than seebs' one-liners.

Oops, sorry. I've been through this debate often enough that I forget that not everyone has read it already.

 

[Motus]

Sorry about that, I guess I was a tad facetious in my words,