loving one another

[Musician4Jesus]

I've heard from Christians incessantly that those who are unloveable don't deserve their love (as well as time, efforts, etc.).

That if you're constantly miserable, cynical, depressed, etc. to be around then no wonder Christians don't want anything to do with you, that you deserve to be rejected.

Essentially Christians can just pick and choose who they want to love. The issue I have with this is that it contradicts what the Bible says! This is what I read in the NT yesterday about it....

Matthew 5:43-48.
Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This isn't in any shape or form saying that people can just act and think however they want, and don't have to be accountable for their actions and/or speech.

Jesus even says that if you only love those who love you, you're no better than the secular world.

It sounds cliche, but those who are unloveable are the ones who deserve love the most. Jesus also said that it's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. This is about salvation, but I believe it can apply to loving others as well.

 

[LilLamb219]

Who are these Christians saying these things that you refer to?

 

[Musician4Jesus]

Pretty much every Christian that I encounter. When they come across somebody they don't want to deal with this is what they use as their theology.

I'm not saying all Christians are like this, but sadly, these are the types I've encountered for the past few years in my life. They'll be around you when it benefits them; however as soon as loving you becomes an inconvenience for them that requires sacrifice, they ditch you.

 

[day time]

Pretty much every Christian that I encounter. When they come across somebody they don't want to deal with this is what they use as their theology.

I'm not saying all Christians are like this, but sadly, these are the types I've encountered for the past few years in my life. They'll be around you when it benefits them; however as soon as loving you becomes an inconvenience for them that requires sacrifice, they ditch you.

I sort of know what you mean ...

I think if you expect others to be something they aren't, you're going to be disappointed all the time. If you think "all Christians should be loving, welcoming, etc" ..... you will be disappointed. You're going to find that labels don't tell you what's in a person's heart towards you and what they have to offer or not. Likewise "all unbelievers are going to live by the law of the pack" .... again, you're going to be disappointed. What they have to offer you or not .... don't look to the labels.

On the one hand ... I love the idea of people being free to love who they want, do what they want, etc. Even to my own detriment perhaps ... that's part of the "risk" of freedom and the sacrifice that comes from it. I understand both earning someone's love, favor, friendship ... but I also understand the "freely given" kind where you do nothing to earn it, you just receive it and enjoy it.

On the other hand .... if I'm looking for bread to eat, I go to a bakery. That sign over the store which says "Bakery" makes me think they'll have bread inside. If I go in there, and all they are selling is some ipods, batteries, toilet paper, band aids ... but no bread ... that's cool and all, some of those things are needed and some are just luxuries ... but, I'm needing bread right then.

So I will leave that "Bakery" and go find one that actually has bread. Spending my time lamenting why there is no bread there, or letting it upset me ... seems pointless when I could just leave and go find it elsewhere. See what I'm saying ?

 

[BFine]

It's the sick who need a doctor...boy, isn't that the truth.

I had a neighbor who was a miserable woman, she had a permanent
dark cloud over her head. Still "we" showed love to her whenever we were
around her.

 

[Musician4Jesus]

Just to clarify I'm labeling anybody. I'm speaking from past experience in intereacting with Christians who have these types of attitudes and behavior.

Well I think so many times Christians think it just applies to the secular world. I think when Jesus said that, it applies to every human relationship we have.

Also I get that you have to earn respect. However so many times Christians just make their judgements on other Christians and other people before they even get to know them.

How can love and trust be earned when they decide to reject and condemn without even getting to know them, before they even know them? I get you need to use discretion with non-Christians/non-believers and the secular world.

However sadly Christians do this to their own brothers and sisters within the body of Christ.

It really irritates me that Christians think because we're saved and have a relationship with God, that makes us better than everybody else. That we're suddenly less prone to sin, and our sinful nature just vanishes.

If such were the case, it totally defeats the purpose of starting a relationship with God in the first place, and we wouldn't need to be dependent on God.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Musician4Jesus. We all need love, and a smile does not cost anything, but it works wonders. A friendly smile, kindness in one`s eyes, and a cheery Hello, is the key to every heart, even if there is no smile back. A friendly personality is a great help, and sadly we are not all blessed with it, but it is easy to pretend, and before we know friendlines and kindness will be our second nature. Love is very, very catching: if you do not believe it, try and find out for yourself.
People will treat us the same as we treat them, and Jesus will be right amongst us. His Love and Joy is for all we want to give it to: " ask and ye will be given," that is God`s promise to us. Every morning we ask for God`s love and blessings, and every evening we thank God for them. Those prayers have a habit of growing longer each day.
We will never know unless we try, and to love and care will become our second natures: we will feel " Reborn," and are the children which our Heavenly Father wants. I say this with love, Musician4Jesus. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[tturt]

Yeah, I think many of us love Yahweh but all you have to do is look at the thread titles and posts to see that we've a ways to go towards loving others (myself included).

 

[omanid]

It definitely depends on the situation.

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
Matthew 10:14

The holy spirit will guide.

 

[jimfish]

It definitely depends on the situation.

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
Matthew 10:14

The holy spirit will guide.

Amen.

If we are to arrive at the correct theology regarding loving others, we must assemble the whole counsel of God regarding it, and then add....

Jesus was our example in this case. Certainly we should all agree that He was perfected in God's Love, walking in Love, walking by the Spirit and not the flesh. Yet we see moments (there were innumerable others not written) in His ministry when He did not display/manifest God's Love to another. Worldly philosophy/intellectualism might argue that Jesus was operating in so-called "tough love" at such times in His dealing with a Pharisee or Sadducee, and such could debatably (sp?) be semantics, but....

Sheer nonsense: "Love is not love unless it's given away."

If we are truly and fully operating in the supernatural agape' Love of God, it will be just that, supernaturally/spiritually manifested; not always outwardly, but rather as the Spirit decides/leads.

Our part, our responsibility, is for God to have previously removed from our hearts any prejudice, unforgiveness, hatred, vengeance, scars, fears, lusts, etc.; i.e., any enemies to God's Love. "Sanctify your hearts." "Purify your hearts." "Apart from Me [Jesus and His Grace], you can do nothing."

If we are truly and fully operating in God's Love as He commands, we will have a Love for all people, even the unlovable, and for all people equally. But that Love will only be outwardly manifested if and when God ordains. We just then need to make sure that we ourselves are not the one standing in Love's Way at those times it is not shown ("the heart is desperately wicked, and above all things deceives us" [para.; Jer17]).

Not nonsense (but also not in God's Word, per se): Some people are best loved from a distance.

We can get into some very serious trouble, with both man and God, when we show "God's" Love (our own soulish love??), to those we want to and when we want to. It interferes with the orchestration of the Holy Ghost, for one thing.

And God is, hopefully, always pruning us (John 15) by putting in our path the unlovable, telling us to love them, and then when we fail to, trying to show us the remaining evil of our heart and lack of ongoing/further sanctification in our walk.

"I the Lord search the heart, I try [in a legal sense; as in a trial] the heart."

It's all about motive; "the thoughts and intents of our heart."

 

[JohnMarsten]

I've heard from Christians incessantly that those who are unloveable don't deserve their love (as well as time, efforts, etc.).

That if you're constantly miserable, cynical, depressed, etc. to be around then no wonder Christians don't want anything to do with you, that you deserve to be rejected.

Essentially Christians can just pick and choose who they want to love. The issue I have with this is that it contradicts what the Bible says! This is what I read in the NT yesterday about it....

Matthew 5:43-48.
Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This isn't in any shape or form saying that people can just act and think however they want, and don't have to be accountable for their actions and/or speech.

Jesus even says that if you only love those who love you, you're no better than the secular world.

It sounds cliche, but those who are unloveable are the ones who deserve love the most. Jesus also said that it's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. This is about salvation, but I believe it can apply to loving others as well.

yep, thats what happens very often unfortunately, been there myself, and to be honest its still a mystery to me of why that is.

My rough guess is, that even though we come to Christ we dont put aside our selfish self and still try to pick our friends. And in effect can we be friends with everyone? He who has many friends may not have any 'real' friend at all...

If people have a nice group, why bring in somebody that simpy doesnt fit?

Of course, if we dont share our love with somebody like that, maybe he will never fit... until heaven that is... he might be there and receive what he deserves... what will happen to us evildoers then?

 

[Living in the Light]

Dear Musician4Jesus. We all need love, and a smile does not cost anything, but it works wonders. A friendly smile, kindness in one`s eyes, and a cheery Hello, is the key to every heart, even if there is no smile back. A friendly personality is a great help, and sadly we are not all blessed with it, but it is easy to pretend, and before we know friendlines and kindness will be our second nature. Love is very, very catching: if you do not believe it, try and find out for yourself.
People will treat us the same as we treat them, and Jesus will be right amongst us. His Love and Joy is for all we want to give it to: " ask and ye will be given," that is God`s promise to us. Every morning we ask for God`s love and blessings, and every evening we thank God for them. Those prayers have a habit of growing longer each day.
We will never know unless we try, and to love and care will become our second natures: we will feel " Reborn," and are the children which our Heavenly Father wants. I say this with love, Musician4Jesus. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Emmy, what a sweet loving lady you are! We all can learn from you. Peace be with you!

 

[gfletcherd]

Simply put, we are to love everybody even our enemies. God wants us to love everybody, but hate the sin. If someone is lying on you, we are still suppose to love them but hate the sin that they are committing against you. Now I am not saying that we have to be around them, but we are suppose to love them. If someone is continuing to lie on me, I will continue to love them and hate the sin, but I will not continue to be there friend. I will pray for them, and love them, but I will not be around someone who continues to lie on me.

 

[EC BELIEVER]

We all deserve to be rejected and yet Jesus loves us all. And yet none of us deserve to be rejected because Jesus loves us all. This may sound contridictory but really is not. People who are unlovable still do not deserve to be rejected. However, you don't have to be with them 24/7 either. Not all people can minister to all types of personalities. Some of us have more patience with this than others. But to say that anyone deserves to be rejected goes against everything Jesus taught and all that He is.

 

[Mediakira]

What do you do if someone rejects you? Because your finally happy for the first time in 3years?

 

[lemon-aid stand]

I've heard from Christians incessantly that those who are unloveable don't deserve their love (as well as time, efforts, etc.).

That if you're constantly miserable, cynical, depressed, etc. to be around then no wonder Christians don't want anything to do with you, that you deserve to be rejected.

Essentially Christians can just pick and choose who they want to love. The issue I have with this is that it contradicts what the Bible says! This is what I read in the NT yesterday about it....

Matthew 5:43-48.
Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This isn't in any shape or form saying that people can just act and think however they want, and don't have to be accountable for their actions and/or speech.

Jesus even says that if you only love those who love you, you're no better than the secular world.

It sounds cliche, but those who are unloveable are the ones who deserve love the most. Jesus also said that it's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. This is about salvation, but I believe it can apply to loving others as well.

well you haven't met this christian, and i can assure you, that i do love everyone.. now i may rebuke some for reasons. and i might not much like some for various reasons.. but i let them know that i do love them.. and i do love them.. so there are people out there that do make Jesus the standard, and refuse to follow after any other.. so now you will have to amend your thread.. have a wonderful day.. in Christ Jesus dale

 

[Musician4Jesus]

Okay I'm not asking every single Christian on the planet to minister to me and to others.

Just because somebody is miserable to be around, doesn't mean they're deliberately choosing to dwell in sin, and making no attempt whatsoever at repetence.

If Christians are going to consider their brothers and sisters in Christ their enemies because the person doesn't think, act, talk like they do, then who needs enemies from the secular world?!

I am angry with Christians and I don't trust them, I can tell you why. For five years straight I went thru the most difficult time of my life.

I felt like I went thru it all alone, with no support at all. I get pain, sorrow, adversity, trials, etc. help you grow in your walk with God and deepen your love and faith for God. That they can also be used to minister to others as well, and that all this stuff is just a part of life.

I can deal with all of that.

I can deal with rejection and anticipate being treated like dung by the secular world. However the Bible and God say that you are supposed to bare one another's burdens, love each other, support one another, and grieve when another grieves.

When I get that type of treatment from Christians who are claiming to love and care about me, yeah I'm going to be hurt and extremely reluctant to trust. I'm not saying all Christians are like this, those are just the kind I encountered when I was going thru the difficult season in my life.

I honestly don't believe that I was getting any support at all when I went thru the most difficult time in my life, and I believed nobody cared. Even my close friends had let the friendship drift, and were treating me as invisible.

Christians just assumed I was deliberately choosing to focus on the bad, and refusing to acknowledge anything good. However it was an extremely difficult time in my life, so there was nothing going right! They made their assumptions and/or threw accusations in my face.

Most (not all, most) didn't really listen to what was being said, and if they did, most didn't try to understand what I was saying.

I'm not one who will simply ignore a blessing and only focus on the bad even when something good does occur.

My problems came in droves; when I didn't think things could get worse they did; I had issues and problems in every aspect of my life.

Then people say not all Christians are like that. However how do you expect me to just believe and trust and accept that they'll love and support me when I was basically rejected and treated the opposite way for YEARS on end?!

If a person becomes accustomed to being treated a certain way, they're not going to believe somebody is going to treat them differently because they anticipate getting treated the way they were treated, because it's what they've become accustomed to.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Musician4Jesus. In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Jesus tells us straightforward, and easy to remember, what God wants from us. Love in all its purity, selfless and no conditions asked: Agape.
When Jesus points out that it is easy to love those, who love you, He does not tell us NOT to love them. We are to love all we know and all we meet, whether friends or not friends, AS WE LOVE OURSELVES. God knows our hearts, and God knows how we love, care and help. (if possible)
Love is not only a feel-good factor, to love is also a " doing-word.) Love also changes people and happenings, Love is a Christian`s strong weapon: it helps us to achieve and overcome, to be the children/sons and daughters, which God wants us to be. It is not easy, but it can be done: We must want it and pray for it, become the worthy children, of our Worthy Heavenly Father.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to " ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share All with our neighbour: all others, friends and not friends. To love our enemies does not want us to join them, or hug and kiss them, it means to treat them as we would love to be treated, decent and with compassion.
God will see our sincere efforts, and God will give us His Blessings.
Love is very catching and love is what our Saviour and Leader wants from us, to be the representatives of our Heavenly Father. To show a loveless and selfish and imperfect world, what true LOVE can do. I say this with love, Musician4Jesus. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Musician4Jesus]

Look I'm well aware of what true love is and the type of love Christ wants from us. I help in what ways I can, and if I see a need that a person needs help with, I help.

The last person I think about is myself.

However when I need help with something, I don't even bother asking for help, because I don't believe anybody is going to help.

Everything I know is self-taught and it's because when I ask for help with something, nobody helps. I don't know why asking for help and support is such taboo; ppl think you're being a mooch or that it's a sign of weakness.

Eventually with anything that I teach myself, I'm going to get to the point where it's too difficult that I can't teach myself.

I don't have a problem doing my fair share of the work, putting forth the effort, time, energy, and sacrifice that is required. However I can't do it all on my own; I've tried and it doesn't work!

That's not being negative, it's the reality of things.

 

[LilLamb219]

Could the problem be in the way you ask for help?