Loving God

[JaneFW]

I thought this might be a good topic, and I hope that roseread doesn't mind me using her question, because I think this would be a non-contentious one, and perhaps exciting, because we can help this member .. maybe??

Roseread said:

Maybe this is one of my big problems--I believe there is a God who created everything. I just do not love him. I respect him and try to do what I have been told--the things you listed. But I have never felt anything more than respect for God.

 

[JaneFW]

When I was a child, I feared God only. I did not understand His love. I was taught that it was my fault that Christ had been crucified. It was my sin that pressed the thorns into his head. That was the teaching of the Catholic church at that time, and it terrified me, yes, but also made me rebellious. I wanted to know how *I*, who had not been alive at that time, had caused Christ to be crucified. If I didn't sin then, how did I press those thorns into his head. I became angry over time, and I turned away from God. It was love that brought me back. I read as an adult how Jesus chose crucifixion so that I might be saved, how He took the nails and the thorns willingly for me. Oh my goodness. What a turn around. How different can two version of the same story be? My favorite hymn now is How Great Thou Art, and I think that sums up for me the great things that God has done - at least some of them - and how I "feel" in relation to Him.

As to loving God - it's not the same kind of love that I feel for my husband and kids and extended family. It's a love based upon what I know is right - that I should love Him - but also it's based upon gratitude and hope and faith.

I don't presume to correct or to teach you myself, Rose, but there is a website here, and lots more, and maybe they will help??

How to Love God More! Be Closer to God!

 

[WolfGate]

When I was a child, I feared God only. I did not understand His love. I was taught that it was my fault that Christ had been crucified. It was my sin that pressed the thorns into his head. That was the teaching of the Catholic church at that time, and it terrified me, yes, but also made me rebellious. I wanted to know how *I*, who had not been alive at that time, had caused Christ to be crucified. If I didn't sin then, how did I press those thorns into his head. I became angry over time, and I turned away from God. It was love that brought me back. I read as an adult how Jesus chose crucifixion so that I might be saved, how He took the nails and the thorns willingly for me. Oh my goodness. What a turn around. How different can two version of the same story be? My favorite hymn now is How Great Thou Art, and I think that sums up for me the great things that God has done - at least some of them - and how I "feel" in relation to Him.

As to loving God - it's not the same kind of love that I feel for my husband and kids and extended family. It's a love based upon what I know is right - that I should love Him - but also it's based upon gratitude and hope and faith.

I don't presume to correct or to teach you myself, Rose, but there is a website here, and lots more, and maybe they will help??

How to Love God More! Be Closer to God!

I agree with the bolded part. John Wesley made reference to Luke and the verse "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" as the heart being a general expression explained by the next three, the soul being affection, strength being will and mind being seeking of knowledge of God. Much more than some emotional response.

Somebody did a contemporary song not long ago that, while I liked it musically, drove me nuts lyrically. The theme of the song was "it's got to be more like falling in love, than something to believe in. More like losing my heart than giving my allegience". Well, no.

Even looking at the oft quoted Ephesians verses on love, the description is filled with verbs. I don't see emotioning yearning in there once.

So am I saying an emotional desire to be closer to God is not real, or not a good thing? Absolutely not. But to put the litmus test on loving God being an emotional response is a fleeting and very limiting action, IMHO.

 

[dinonum]

I think it's true, it isn't a requirement that the love be like that between our human companions, spouses, children, etc. That doesn't mean we won't feel this kind of love.

 

[JaneFW]

Thank you Wolfgate and Dinonum.

I must say that if this is all we have to give about loving God, I'm not surprised that Rosereader finds it hard to figure out why she should love Him.

 

[roseread]

When I was a child, I feared God only. I did not understand His love. I was taught that it was my fault that Christ had been crucified. It was my sin that pressed the thorns into his head. That was the teaching of the Catholic church at that time, and it terrified me, yes, but also made me rebellious. I wanted to know how *I*, who had not been alive at that time, had caused Christ to be crucified. If I didn't sin then, how did I press those thorns into his head. I became angry over time, and I turned away from God. It was love that brought me back. I read as an adult how Jesus chose crucifixion so that I might be saved, how He took the nails and the thorns willingly for me. Oh my goodness. What a turn around. How different can two version of the same story be? My favorite hymn now is How Great Thou Art, and I think that sums up for me the great things that God has done - at least some of them - and how I "feel" in relation to Him.

As to loving God - it's not the same kind of love that I feel for my husband and kids and extended family. It's a love based upon what I know is right - that I should love Him - but also it's based upon gratitude and hope and faith.

I don't presume to correct or to teach you myself, Rose, but there is a website here, and lots more, and maybe they will help??

But I do not feel any sort of affection or gratitude for God. I mean he is in total control of the universe. He created hell, and He created us. Why did He decide that we are so horrible that we need hell. I could never understand that sort of reasoning. He is in control, so why did he need to scarfice his son? Or a better question, that none of my pastor ever answered is, I understand that crufication was horrible way to die--but how can it be a scarfice if Jesus KNEW he was the son of God. He knew he wasn't going to be gone forever. He knew the pain would not be forever.

I accept the fact that not believing in God means hell. I respect God because he has all authority over us. But I do not love him, or feel any real affection to him.

 

[chaz345]

But I do not feel any sort of affection or gratitude for God. I mean he is in total control of the universe. He created hell, and He created us. Why did He decide that we are so horrible that we need hell. I could never understand that sort of reasoning. He is in control, so why did he need to scarfice his son? Or a better question, that none of my pastor ever answered is, I understand that crufication was horrible way to die--but how can it be a scarfice if Jesus KNEW he was the son of God. He knew he wasn't going to be gone forever. He knew the pain would not be forever.

I accept the fact that not believing in God means hell. I respect God because he has all authority over us. But I do not love him, or feel any real affection to him.

I'm just starting reading a book about God's love toward us called "He Loves Me" that may be of great help to you. Can't really give you all that much detail about it since I've just barely started it myself but one of the author's points is that many Christians today believe and accept God/Christ only to avoid hell. The author was that way themself for a long time until something hit them about the depth of God's love for us.

 

[Created2Write]

I'm just starting reading a book about God's love toward us called "He Loves Me" that may be of great help to you. Can't really give you all that much detail about it since I've just barely started it myself but one of the author's points is that many Christians today believe and accept God/Christ only to avoid hell. The author was that way themself for a long time until something hit them about the depth of God's love for us.

To add onto this, and something I was taught about why the crucifixion was so horrible Rose, it wasn't necessarily even the crucifixion. Yes, dying on the cross was a horrible, terrible way to die. But Jesus suffered much, much more than that. Up until the cross Jesus had been blessed with a direct link to His Father's power. It was through God Almighty that Jesus performed the miracles He did. That's why He was 100% man, 100% God, because He lived each day with free access to God Almighty.

One on the cross, every sin that had ever been committed and would ever be committed was laid upon Him. So much so that the Bible tells us that God the Father had to look away from His beloved Son, because God can not look upon sin. Jesus' sacrifice went beyond the physical and into the spiritual. Jesus was left alone to die on the cross. That's why He was recorded saying, "Father, Father, why have You forsaken Me?" Jesus endured the forsaking of God the Father so that we would never have to.

So Jesus' sacrifice, yes, was physical. The wages of sin is death, the Bible tells us, and He did die for our sins. But when He took our sins upon Him, He was forsaken by his Father in heaven so that we would never have to experience that. Through His salvation, we don't ever have to experience being left alone because Jesus paid that price. It would be the same as our earthly father allowing us to be murdered. Just because Jesus knew He would rise again doesn't mean His sacrifice was any less real or painful.

Hope that helps too Rose.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Roseread reply
But I do not feel any sort of affection or gratitude for God. I mean he is in total control of the universe. He created hell, and He created us. Why did He decide that we are so horrible that we need hell. I could never understand that sort of reasoning. He is in control, so why did he need to scarfice his son? Or a better question, that none of my pastor ever answered is, I understand that crufication was horrible way to die--but how can it be a scarfice if Jesus KNEW he was the son of God. He knew he wasn't going to be gone forever. He knew the pain would not be forever.

I accept the fact that not believing in God means hell. I respect God because he has all authority over us. But I do not love him, or feel any real affection to him.

Roseread
I doubt that anyone will be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. If you are mad as hell at God I do not judge you one bit. You have suffered a LOT more than I ever have and I feel for you.

If I had lost my parents and have a spouse that rejects me then I would probably wonder why an all powerful God allowed that to happen and I would be mad as hell.

I maybe way out of line and completely wrong but your posts have touched me. Maybe nothing I wrote above pertains to you but in case it does I want to perhaps present some hope.

My wife is now sleeping as we just buried her father a few hours ago. She had to watch as colon cancer sucked the life out of him for over a year. The last few weeks were horrible. My wife and her sister stayed with him 24/7 and had to do just about everything for him including bathing him and taking care of his waste. The poor man had no dignity with his own daughters.

On top of all that her father, when he was able a few weeks ago, would want to keep fixing things. He was a mechanical genius and never accepted that he was going to die. He would instruct my wife to do certain things to fix things as he lay in bed helpless. He would get frustrated and then yell at my wife and make her cry. Later he would call her and in tears apologize. In the end he was less than 100 pounds and looked like the worst Halloween mask you have ever seen.

Many years ago my wife had to vote on pulling the plug on her younger brother (Jonnyboy) as he lay in the hospital bed. Brain cancer had eaten him alive and in the last few weeks all he could do was blink his eyes to try and communicate. Johnnyboy was a very strong young man with a wife and two daughters. A few months before being completely hospitalized he had said that he wanted to die as he did not want his young daughters seeing their hero shrivel up into a useless blob. In addition he said that he was no longer a man as he could not even perform husband services for his wife.

The doctors gave us some hope that proved to be false. As Johnnyboy was completely paralyzed from the neck down, he thrashed around and blinked his eyes. I remember him getting so red in the face and his eyes bulging out. They finally discovered that his blinking and thrashing was his communication and he wanted to have the life support stop. My wife was the only on that would not vote to pull the plug. Those that voted to pull the plug were Jonnyboy’s mother, father, sisters and wife. The legal staff came in, they administered the drug, pulled the plug and he stopped breathing a few minutes later.

Two years later my wife’s mother (Who witnessed her only son die) developed leukemia and my wife and her sister had to care for her 24/7 until she died in her bed. The same loss of dignity was involved as my wife and her sister had to bath, remove waste, and give suppositories and enemas.

I shudder to think that I may go through just one of those experiences as my wife did. What amazes me is that my wife is no longer angry with God. I do not know how she does it. IF (I maybe wrong about this) you are angry with God I just want you to know that it is possible to heal enough so that you can have a better life. In fact my wife now does have affection for God and is grateful to God for not letting her go and for helping her improve her life. She also Knows that this is not the only life and that there is an afterlife.

My wife thinks that I am the strong husband that she has looked up to as I have been successful in providing for my wife in many areas of her life. She always looks to me like I am her hero. I got news for her and everybody else. My wife is my HERO and I so admire her and I tell her that. She has demonstrated strength that I will lean on as my parents are 86 years old and my time is coming.

Roseread
I hope that somehow you can get better and maybe me sharing with you about my wife will offer you some hope. You seemed to be a very good woman but have a wounded soul. I believe that God will hold onto you even if you are mad as hell at Him because that is what He did for my wife. God bless you my dear!


Stan

 

[Niffer]

I truly wish I could love God like I love my family. That close, intimate relationship would be amazing.
I do think it's possible to have that sort of relationship, but I think you need to work really hard to achieve it.

I would say I do love God - I have seen His hand working in my life, especially since my marriage, that I would have to be intentionally ignoring Him, to not see His love for me.

I'll share with you a little personal experience I had with God. Note I'm not charismatic, I've never physically heard God, and am not overly spiritual. I'm more a traditionalist really, then a charismatic worshiper, which is why I think this hit me so hard.

Remi and I were living in our previous apartment, I was newly pregnant; Remi was on EI and our financial struggles were causing me much stress and anxiety.

It was the early morning, and I was praying - and by praying I mean mostly complaining, asking for help, stressing over my issues - and suddenly, right in the middle of my diatribe, God cut me off:

"When have I not provided for you? Have you ever gone hungry? Have you ever not had a roof over your head? When have I NOT provided?"

I was being chastised, reminded that I had always been taken care of, and here I was complaining again and showing my distrust in Him.

It was one of the most personal experiences I've ever had.

He does care, and I feel His love for me, so how can I not love in return?

Peace,
- Niffer

 

[dorig59]

I don't know if we can love God the same way people around us who we can physically touch and speak to. But I feel like I love God because we are so undeserving of the mercy, love, and grace He has bestowed on us.....so completely undeserving. We're so immensely sinful, we sin over and over again even though we know what is the right thing to do....and yet we don't do it. Nevertheless, He continually, continuously forgives us no matter what. He loves us and looks on us with great, great mercy. He is longsuffering towards us and our faults, our shortcomings. He created so many wonderful things for us to enjoy, not only this beautiful earth, but our families and all the people we love here on earth.

He created us for His good pleasure.

His mercy is truly everlasting. His love endures forever. HE is there for us when nobody else is. He and only He is there when it's all said and done.

As far as bad things happening, it's not God's fault. "Bad" things are a direct result of sin entering into the world. Sin has tainted everything. A lot of the bad things that happen to us are because of someone else's free will. If, for example, a spouse chooses to spurn us, cheat on us, treat us badly, not love us anymore, or chooses to leave us, whatever.....it's because that person has free will, the same free will that God gave all of us. He will not force us to do anything, He won't force us to be good, to love Him, or to do what is right.....we make our own choices. And sadly sometimes those choices affect others around us.

Sin also brought disease and sickness into the world. It was such a perfect world before sin, and the earth will return to that perfect state eventually. In His time.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote of Dori
I don't know if we can love God the same way people around us who we can physically touch and speak to.

I think that you are right Dori.
However, In my way of thinking when I love the “people around” me I see it as those people using their free will to tap into the goodness that God offers. IOW, God is the source and people use their free will to embrace that source and act on it.

Quote of Dori
His mercy is truly everlasting. His love endures forever. HE is there for us when nobody else is. He and only He is there when it's all said and done.

Amen my sister! Dori you have wisdom!


PS
Nicky is cute as a bug in a rug!
Did you get my last email?

 

[dorig59]

Hi Stan, thanks! No, I have not gotten an email from you! Waaah!

Yea, Nicky's cute! I really dig those freckles that popped out across his face this last year! He has times of great sadness because his Daddy died almost 3 years ago now. He remembers....he remembers everything.

 

[roseread]

To add onto this, and something I was taught about why the crucifixion was so horrible Rose, it wasn't necessarily even the crucifixion. Yes, dying on the cross was a horrible, terrible way to die. But Jesus suffered much, much more than that. Up until the cross Jesus had been blessed with a direct link to His Father's power. It was through God Almighty that Jesus performed the miracles He did. That's why He was 100% man, 100% God, because He lived each day with free access to God Almighty.

One on the cross, every sin that had ever been committed and would ever be committed was laid upon Him. So much so that the Bible tells us that God the Father had to look away from His beloved Son, because God can not look upon sin. Jesus' sacrifice went beyond the physical and into the spiritual. Jesus was left alone to die on the cross. That's why He was recorded saying, "Father, Father, why have You forsaken Me?" Jesus endured the forsaking of God the Father so that we would never have to.

So Jesus' sacrifice, yes, was physical. The wages of sin is death, the Bible tells us, and He did die for our sins. But when He took our sins upon Him, He was forsaken by his Father in heaven so that we would never have to experience that. Through His salvation, we don't ever have to experience being left alone because Jesus paid that price. It would be the same as our earthly father allowing us to be murdered. Just because Jesus knew He would rise again doesn't mean His sacrifice was any less real or painful.

Hope that helps too Rose.

But he was not forsaken forever. To me forsaken means forever and ever. Jesus knew that it was not going to be forever and that he would be reunited with God. In-fact Jesus God as well. I'm not saying it wasn't painful, but that it was not forever. He was only separated from God for a short time and he knew without a doubt that it was a short time.

I'm not saying I'm not grateful, but it's more of a graditude of say a boss who gives you a raise and a bonus--not the same sort of graditude out of love that you would give a parent who gave you a hug when you were felling down.

 

[roseread]

Roseread
I doubt that anyone will be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. If you are mad as hell at God I do not judge you one bit. You have suffered a LOT more than I ever have and I feel for you.

If I had lost my parents and have a spouse that rejects me then I would probably wonder why an all powerful God allowed that to happen and I would be mad as hell.

I maybe way out of line and completely wrong but your posts have touched me. Maybe nothing I wrote above pertains to you but in case it does I want to perhaps present some hope.

My wife is now sleeping as we just buried her father a few hours ago. She had to watch as colon cancer sucked the life out of him for over a year. The last few weeks were horrible. My wife and her sister stayed with him 24/7 and had to do just about everything for him including bathing him and taking care of his waste. The poor man had no dignity with his own daughters.

On top of all that her father, when he was able a few weeks ago, would want to keep fixing things. He was a mechanical genius and never accepted that he was going to die. He would instruct my wife to do certain things to fix things as he lay in bed helpless. He would get frustrated and then yell at my wife and make her cry. Later he would call her and in tears apologize. In the end he was less than 100 pounds and looked like the worst Halloween mask you have ever seen.

Many years ago my wife had to vote on pulling the plug on her younger brother (Jonnyboy) as he lay in the hospital bed. Brain cancer had eaten him alive and in the last few weeks all he could do was blink his eyes to try and communicate. Johnnyboy was a very strong young man with a wife and two daughters. A few months before being completely hospitalized he had said that he wanted to die as he did not want his young daughters seeing their hero shrivel up into a useless blob. In addition he said that he was no longer a man as he could not even perform husband services for his wife.

The doctors gave us some hope that proved to be false. As Johnnyboy was completely paralyzed from the neck down, he thrashed around and blinked his eyes. I remember him getting so red in the face and his eyes bulging out. They finally discovered that his blinking and thrashing was his communication and he wanted to have the life support stop. My wife was the only on that would not vote to pull the plug. Those that voted to pull the plug were Jonnyboy’s mother, father, sisters and wife. The legal staff came in, they administered the drug, pulled the plug and he stopped breathing a few minutes later.

Two years later my wife’s mother (Who witnessed her only son die) developed leukemia and my wife and her sister had to care for her 24/7 until she died in her bed. The same loss of dignity was involved as my wife and her sister had to bath, remove waste, and give suppositories and enemas.

I shudder to think that I may go through just one of those experiences as my wife did. What amazes me is that my wife is no longer angry with God. I do not know how she does it. IF (I maybe wrong about this) you are angry with God I just want you to know that it is possible to heal enough so that you can have a better life. In fact my wife now does have affection for God and is grateful to God for not letting her go and for helping her improve her life. She also Knows that this is not the only life and that there is an afterlife.

My wife thinks that I am the strong husband that she has looked up to as I have been successful in providing for my wife in many areas of her life. She always looks to me like I am her hero. I got news for her and everybody else. My wife is my HERO and I so admire her and I tell her that. She has demonstrated strength that I will lean on as my parents are 86 years old and my time is coming.

Roseread
I hope that somehow you can get better and maybe me sharing with you about my wife will offer you some hope. You seemed to be a very good woman but have a wounded soul. I believe that God will hold onto you even if you are mad as hell at Him because that is what He did for my wife. God bless you my dear!


Stan

But I'm not mad at him. I don't blame him for my parent's death. It was a car accident. It was horrible, and stupid (a guy talking on his cell phone ran a red light and t-boned them.) But it wasn't God's fault. Yes I'm angry at the man, and I've been working to get over that anger, but I'm not angry at God. I can comprehend that we don't get to live forever on this earth and the thought that we will one day be together in heaven is a comfort. But that doesn't make me love God. Nor does it make me blame him.

 

[Sojourner1]

It's hard to love God if you keep Him at a distance and you don't get to know Him. As you increase your knowledge of God your love for God will increase as well. In order to get to know Him personally you need to spend time with Him, praying and reading His word and allowing the Holy Spirit to soften your heart toward God. Life isn't just about following a bunch of rules that God gave us so that we can avoid going to hell. Life is about developing a personal relationship with God that conforms us into His image. As you are conformed into His image you won't be able to not love Him.

 

[Created2Write]

But he was not forsaken forever. To me forsaken means forever and ever. Jesus knew that it was not going to be forever and that he would be reunited with God. In-fact Jesus God as well. I'm not saying it wasn't painful, but that it was not forever. He was only separated from God for a short time and he knew without a doubt that it was a short time.

I'm not saying I'm not grateful, but it's more of a graditude of say a boss who gives you a raise and a bonus--not the same sort of graditude out of love that you would give a parent who gave you a hug when you were felling down.

Knowing that He wouldn't be alone forever doesn't negate the fact that He was abandoned. And when He died, He went to Hell. Everything that would have happened to us, He endured. He was completely forsaken by God the Father, He suffered a horrible death. More than just on the cross. He was beaten, He was flogged(flogging was a horrible way to torture someone), He carried the cross up the road, and then He was nailed to the cross where God completely turned away from Him. He took all of our sins upon Him(literally trillions of sins) and had to die alone. He went to hell where He defeated the devil and took the keys before God rose Him from the dead three days later.

He did all of that for each one of us individually. My sins were on Him, your sins were on Him. He did all of that because of His love for us. Because He desired to have us with Him in heaven. He didn't die for the animals, and He created them. No, He died for us.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Reply by Roseread
But I'm not mad at him. I don't blame him for my parent's death. It was a car accident. It was horrible, and stupid (a guy talking on his cell phone ran a red light and t-boned them.) But it wasn't God's fault. Yes I'm angry at the man, and I've been working to get over that anger, but I'm not angry at God. I can comprehend that we don't get to live forever on this earth and the thought that we will one day be together in heaven is a comfort. But that doesn't make me love God. Nor does it make me blame him.



I maybe way out of line and completely wrong but your posts have touched me. Maybe nothing I wrote above pertains to you but in case it does I want to perhaps present some hope.

Sorry, I guessed wrong.

 

[Johnnz]

We moderns have somewhat romanticised the word love. For the Hebrews it had connotations of faithfulness, of following God's standards rather than being sidetracked by competing loyalties. It was a commitment to Him "love ..with all your heart, soul, mind.."

The style of teaching that is jurisdictional - sin, judgement, punishment - rather than the Trinitarian viewpoint which is based on relationality - does not foster love very readily.

I often find I most experience God's love when I am with a hurting, damaged person. Then I experience something of the tenderness and longing of Father towards that person. For me it also has meant a deeply rooted desire to really understand the Scriptures, and to communicate that to others. I come alive when that happens.

John
NZ

 

[roseread]

It's hard to love God if you keep Him at a distance and you don't get to know Him. As you increase your knowledge of God your love for God will increase as well. In order to get to know Him personally you need to spend time with Him, praying and reading His word and allowing the Holy Spirit to soften your heart toward God. Life isn't just about following a bunch of rules that God gave us so that we can avoid going to hell. Life is about developing a personal relationship with God that conforms us into His image. As you are conformed into His image you won't be able to not love Him.

Are you saying that I don't spend time reading the bible, and praying?