Loved ones in Hell

[CPman2004]

um I don't think this point has been made yet, so I'll make it.

Right now we can only see things from our perspective. We love and adore people and we hate to see people in pain. However, we also understand justice which is why we mostly seek the death pentaly for evil acts. What we don't understand is what is justice is in God's eyes and what is love in his eye's. We can't understand his perspective fully since we are still is flesh and lets face it, in a sinful world. It is my option that when we reach heaven we will see from God's perspective. We will see that although they were good and nice people, they still sined and still rebelled aginst God our Father. Although our loved one is in hell we will understand why they are, and we will be basking in the presences of the Lord.

Another point I like to make is that God does NOT want anyone to go to hell. He has given everyone a chance to accept or reject his Son's gift of salvation. In Exekiel 33:11 God speaks of his hurt when a person refuses to follow him.

"As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so that they may live..."

God is loving, and he doesn't wish death for anyone. However, it is still pure and holy, and thus unholy and impure things can not exist with him. If you have lost someone and they did not accept Christ, you need to try to see it from God's eyes.

 

[Fexx-Saved]

I've been thinking about this since yesterday. my mom died yesterday as wasnt a christian, so by defintion she'd end up in hell.
I heard that if she died she'd be saved cos it okay to assume that is true.

 

[Boomygrrl]

I've been thinking about this since yesterday. my mom died yesterday as wasnt a christian, so by defintion she'd end up in hell.
I heard that if she died she'd be saved cos it okay to assume that is true.

I am so sorry for your loss. How are you doing?

Boomygrrl

 

[wardpossy]

We who believe on Jesus Christ and therefore are confident that we will go to heaven would like to see everyone get there eventually. We would very much like to find evidence in the Bible that the lost will get another chance to be saved after death. And there always have been teachers who have held the viewpoint of another opportunity after death. Some Bible students refer to themselves as universalists because they believe that eventually everyone or almost everyone will end up in heaven. They believe that 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 4:6, and 1 Timothy 2:5,6 imply the hope of another chance after death. They view Acts 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15:22, Philippians 2:9-1l, and Colossians 1:20 as verses which imply that almost all will eventually be among the redeemed. Let's take a look at these passages.



First Peter 3:18-20. These verses declare that "Jesus preached to spirits in prison," specifically to contemporaries of Noah. Some Bible interpreters believe that Peter was referring to the preaching done by Noah while he was building the ark. Others teach that between His death and resurrection, Jesus went to the realm of the unsaved dead and announced what He had done. Still others believe He went to the prison house for fallen angels and announced His redeeming work to them. We may choose any of these interpretations. It is a difficult passage, to be sure. Just as certain, however, is that we should not take a difficult passage like this and use it to overrule other passages like Hebrews 9:27, which states, ". . . it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment."

First Peter 4:6. This is another verse often used to prove that people will receive another chance. Peter wrote:

For this reason the gospel was preached to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.​

This verse refers to the proclamation of the gospel to living people who later died. The preaching was done while these individuals were alive. They were judged harshly by the world, but they now enjoy the bliss of heaven. They are far better off than those who gained the praise of the world but must face God's judgment after death.



First Timothy 2:5,6. This passage is also quoted as a proof of a second chance after death. It tells us:

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

Those who view this passage as offering another chance for salvation after death point out that the ransom price was paid for all, and that it will be "testified" to all "in due time." Some people in this world never receive an opportunity to hear the gospel, and many who do, hear it under very unfavorable circumstances. Therefore, "in due time," under conditions more favorable after death, the gospel of salvation will be offered to all. The context, however, eliminates such an interpretation. Paul made this statement in connection with his injunction that God's people pray for all men (not just for a small select company), and with his declaration that God desires all people to be saved (not just Israelites). He asserted that Christ's ransom was universal in availability and that the gospel testimony is to go out everywhere. There is no indication here of another gospel offer after death.

Acts 3:21. Peter spoke of "the times of restoration of all things," and this to some Bible scholars implies the idea that in the end all will be saved. But a careful study of this verse makes it clear that Peter was speaking about the restoration of Israel as predicted by the Old Testament prophets. They spoke of Israel's return to the land and the restoration of the theocracy under David's Son, but they never predicted a day when the unsaved dead would be converted and translated to heaven.

First Corinthians 15:22. Paul's words "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" are sometimes taken to mean that all will eventually be saved. But that isn't what Paul said. He declared the simple truth that just as every person dies because he is united with Adam as a member of the sinful human race by natural birth, so every person who is united with Christ shall experience a glorious resurrection. We did nothing to become a member of the human race, but we must believe on Christ and be born again to enter Christ's family. We who have done this are now "in Christ" and therefore recipients of eternal life.

Colossians 1:20. Paul declared that God's purpose is "to reconcile all things to Himself . . . through the blood of the cross." Standing by itself, this seems to teach that eventually every creature will be brought into a saving relationship with God. William Hendriksen quotes a minister who used this verse as the basis for the following statement: "In the end everybody is going to be saved. I have hope even for the devil."

But when we interpret this verse in the light of the many passages that clearly distinguish between a resurrection to condemnation and a resurrection to blessedness, we see Colossians 1:20 as teaching that through "the blood of the cross" God provided for the restoration of the whole universe to the harmony He intended for it -- the harmony that was broken through sin. The day is coming when all creatures will be brought into subjection to God. They will acknowledge the authority of the triune God and submit to Him. They will confess the lordship of Christ to the glory of the Father (Phil. 2:10,11). In the case of the evil spirits and unredeemed human beings, this subjection will be imposed, not welcomed. On the other hand, the good angels and redeemed people will submit joyfully and rejoice in the fact that rebellion has ceased and a new harmony exists in God's universe.

Warrior For Christ, Jeff

 

[Edial]

Hello there.
I am looking for a constructive criticism concerning the reply I made stating that it is possible for SOME to be saved from the Hades.
You seemed to have made some research on the topic.
Here is my full post I made in this thread -
Thanks,
Ed

------------------
Good question! I have not yet seen a satisfactory answer to it because it presupposes certain things that are not there. Christians as well as non-Christians presuppose that often. Allow me to draft a layout of the afterlife.
1. English Bibles combine 2 Greek words in defining hell. Hades and Gehenna. These words are very different in their definitions.
2. Hades is similar to Sheol (in Hebrew) of the Old Testament. So, if we need to find out more about Hades, we also have Sheol to look up. Sheol is NOT synonymous with grave, as some say. There is another for grave in Hebrew (kevar). Sheol means "abode for the dead" - the spiritual underworld and not the physical grave. English bibles however translate it as grave sometimes. It is incorrect.
3. Gehenna is always associated with a place of extreme torture. It is the "Burning Lake" in the end of the Revelation. It's main role will play during the Great Judgement Day in the future. All these "weeping and gnashing of the teeth" instances are associated with Gehenna. But not with Sheol and/or Hades.
4. The only instance of flames in Hades are in Luke 16:19-31. The Greek word for "flame" indicates flames and not fire. The coherent dialogue that takes place does not indicate torture of the caliber of "weeping and gnashing". The fact that the rich man asked (in the coherent form of speach) for water in the Hades, indicates that the environment is simply very hot and no torture is taking place. The fact that the rich man calls this torture does not make it a torture. The rich man was spoiled all his life.
5. The Hades/Sheol in Luke 16 has a meaning of a great equalizer (v.25). The babies rest in there (as in Job) and the great sinners suffer there. People's deeds catch up with them in there. This underworld has cities (Lk.10:15 where depth in Gk. (niv) is Hades) and such. Conditions are bad and God is farther away. Sometimes the souls sleep in there and then they wake up and argue and quarrel and such (Isa.14:9-10). People live in this underworld until the Great Judgement, then all of them will be found quilty and thrown in the Gehenna (the burning lake) of the Revelation.

OK. Having said this, let's address your question.

1. When "nice" people go to Hades/Sheol they get worse in that environment and the fact that God is farther away. The reason they get worse is because they will continue shying away from God while the Day of the Great Judgement approaches. (It is a predetermined Day, and only God knows its date). If you see them at the Great Judgement (if you become a Christian, that is) from the other side "of the aisle" you will be amazed how terrible that person would be, although he once was a "nice person" in this world. You will agree with God that he deserves Gehenna (or, Hell).
One might ask then; "But what about nice people that will die just before the Judgement? They will not have time to get worse." But the Bible states that people of the earth will be especially terrible just before the judgment. There will be no "nice" people. So, when they die they will be perfectly ready for Gehenna.
2. Can people be saved from that terrible underworld? Let's establish something here and then work from it - there is no Purgatory. However, the Bible does not provide any verses that prohibit salvation from Hades/Sheol. (Heb.9:27 does not prohibit salvation. It prohibits the possibility of reincarnation. In Lk 16, where it talks about an uncrossable chasm between the worlds, it is talking within the compartments of Hades itself, not Hades and heaven).
On the contrary, the Bible presents strong evidence that it is indeed possible to be saved while in Hades/Sheol.
a). In 1Pt.3:19 it talks about Christ going to prison during his death and resurrection and preaching there to the spirits. "Prison" is someplace in Hades and the Gk word "preach" means as in preaching the gospel. So we can conclude that the gospel is peachable in Hades, and if it is preachable it would also have a capacity of being productive to save.
b). God hears and sees everything that is happening in the Sheol/Hades (cannot find the verse at this moment).
c). Jonah cried out to God from Sheol NH 2:1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the LORD his God. 2 He said:"In my distress I called to the LORD,and he answered me.From the depths of the grave I called for help,and you listened to my cry.
Here grave is Sheol in Hebrew and not kevar (which means "grave"). So it should be "From the depths of the Sheol I called for help". So, while Jonah was still alive he appears to have been unconscious and somehow traveled to Sheol and called from there. (We all heard of people who were pronounced dead yet somehow came back. Stopping of the heart does not mean death to a Hebrew, since "life is in the blood" Lev.11:17).

There are other reasons why one can be saved from the Hades. However, and this is a BIG however. One cannot be saved from the Hades if he knwingly and soberly REJECTS Christ in this world, or God in general. He will continue doing that even in Hades. I am not saying if he does not know or not sure, but rejects.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

But thanks for the question.
Ed

 

[rugerfann]

I believe the consequences of rejecting Jesus are eternal. I believe our loving God, our loving Just Merciful Holy God, our God who loves us, love..... He will end pain, end torment, and I believe He has shown us this truth through His word.

There is no mention of eternal pain in hell.
There are only 6 times the word ‘eternal’ is used without reference to persons or things:

1. Hebrews 5:9 “… eternal salvation… “
2. Hebrews 9:12 “… eternal redemption… ”
3. Hebrews 6:2 “… eternal judgment… “
4. Mark 3:29 “… eternal condemnation… “
5. Matthew 25:46 “… eternal punishment… “
6. II Thessalonians 1:9 “… eternal destruction… “

These 6 verses all have to do with the final judgment and its outcome. There is no mention of eternal pain. The consequence of choosing salvation is eternal the same as the consequence of choosing against it is eternal.


The soul is mortal

Firstly, souls die:
7. Ezekiel 18:4 “… The soul who sins shall die“
8. Revelation 16:3 “… every living soul died”

Secondly, humans are created mortal:
9. Romans 2:7 “… seek for… immortality”
10. I Corinthians 15:51-55 “… this mortal must put on immortality.”

Thirdly, animals are souls:
11. Genesis 2:19 (The Hebrew word for ‘soul’ can also be translated ‘living creature&#8217
12. Genesis 9:10, 12 (Both animals and humans are described the same way)


There will be no more pain

13. Revelation 21:4 “And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
14. Revelation 20:14 “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire… ”
15. Daniel 2:35 “…the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found…” (Refering to selfish kingdoms and sin)

Unending torment

If hell is unending torment, the following must also be believed:
i. The soul is immortal
ii. Man must exist, he cannot cease to be
iii. The whole time in heaven, there will be people suffering
iv. Eternal pain without purpose



A. ‘Unquenchable’ fire means ‘no-one can interrupt the process’ of burning. Thus, the fire will not “be quenched” (Mark 9:43-46 ) but turn its matter into ash.

B. As Sodom, Gomorrah, Jerusalem and Edom are not still burning, ‘eternal fire’ can only be defined as ‘eternal in its results’, not ‘eternal in its process’ (Jude 7, Jeremiah 17:27, Isaiah 34:9-10).

C. Forever means ‘to the vanishing point’ (Exodus 12:24, Exodus 40:15, Leviticus 3:17, Dueteronomy 15:17, I Kings 8:12-13, II Kings 5:27, Revelation 19:3).

D. The wicked will perish.

E. There is no mention in the whole bible of eternal pain.

F. The human soul is mortal.

G. Sheol literally means ‘abode of the dead’ or ‘the grave’ or ‘Hades’. Hades is another word for the grave.

H. There will be no more pain.

I. To believe there is unending torment forces one to believe in many dreadful things such as man not having the choice to exist, God allowing pain without purpose and our eternal existance will never be free of suffering.



God is for us! Jesus became sin for us. God will one day put an end to all suffering and evil. God must rid of all that brings pain and ruin and because He is love, He will not prolong that process a moment longer than He has good purpose.

Mark 9:48 "Where 'their worm dieth not,and the fire is not quenched"

revelation 19:20 "And the beast was taken,and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,with which he decieved them that had recieved the mark of the beast,and them that had worshiped his image.These bolth where cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone".


revelation 20:10 " And the devil that decieved them,was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,where the beast and the false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever".

Thousand years takes place between revelation 19 and 20.You will notice the beast and the false prophet are still there when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire.You will also notice it claims there torment will be day and night forever and ever.

 

[walkin2e]

Luke 16 verses 22 and 23 "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

Walkin2e

 

[Nae]

Hi guys

Ok, so we apparently are sinners in god's eyes, in other words, we were born....
Why does god have to eternally torture us along with satan?
Why can't he just take all the christians with him to rejoice in heaven and leave the rest of us alone to get on with it? He'd still have his way, we'd still be without him only it would make more sense of a loving god to do that instead wouldn't it?

Nae

 

[rugerfann]

Hi guys

Ok, so we apparently are sinners in god's eyes, in other words, we were born....
Why does god have to eternally torture us along with satan?
Why can't he just take all the christians with him to rejoice in heaven and leave the rest of us alone to get on with it? He'd still have his way, we'd still be without him only it would make more sense of a loving god to do that instead wouldn't it?

Nae

Earth belongs to Chrsit jesus,where whould you live?

 

[Vi]

We will be given new bodies, and there will be no more tears, and God will also give us a new name, written on a stone and placed in our palm - known only to God and us... so I believe we must be risen to a higher conscience, a different way of thinking.

I can't say that it always sounds good to me, especially when considering the sadness I feel in the here and now for lost loved ones.... I can't imagine not feeling this way.

but, there's bound to be more than what we now know, or can imagine, so I'm trying to keep open to that... maybe not knowing will provoke us to work that much more dilligently to reach those we love. We can pray more that their hearts are softened and open to the voice of the Lord, and that people are sent into their lives that will help guide them to Jesus. Yup, maybe that's why we don't understand yet how there will be no mourning and sorrow... so we'll work hard now.

 

[12volt_man]

Why can't he just take all the christians with him to rejoice in heaven and leave the rest of us alone to get on with it?

Get on with what, exactly? Since the moment man fell, all of history has been leading up to the day that Christ would reclaim His bride and establish a new Heaven and a New Earth.

If the whole point is to redeem creation, then what should happen to that creation that chooses not to be redeemed?

He'd still have his way, we'd still be without him only it would make more sense of a loving god to do that instead wouldn't it?

God is a loving God but He is also holy, righteous and just.

 

[TheMainException]

I think at that time...everyone will be equally as important to us, but we will most likely forget those who have passed to hell...for there will be so much to do....even for eternity.
There's my take.