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Love codified in the Ten Commandments

Bro.T

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Let take a look at those who choose to be with the lord and obey him. Let’s go into Isaiah 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
 
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Hentenza

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Let take a look
How preachy.
You do understand that this verse is directed at the Jewish people, right? You do understand that removing historical and cultural context causes error, right?

Once again, can you post a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment or a verse that shows that the sabbath was kept before Moses?
 
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DamianWarS

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Morality ≠ Mosaic Law
Genesis indeed shows moral failures and moral obligations, but that does not demonstrate that the Decalogue was already in force. Before Sinai, there is no covenant equivalent to the Sinai covenant, and Scripture explicitly treats the Law as something that came later (Gal 3:17; Deut 5:2–3).

Deut5:2–3 — “The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. NOT with our fathers…” This verse alone contradicts the premise.

The patriarchs clearly had moral awareness, but moral awareness is universal and predates the written Law (Rom 2:14–15). Having morality does not prove they had the Ten Commandments.

1. “No other gods – Jacob’s household put away strange gods” (Gen 35:2–4)

This reflects patriarchal household loyalty, not adherence to the First Commandment. There were no Israelites yet, no covenant, and no command from Yahweh forbidding other gods to the nations.

2. “No idols – Rachel stole idols” (Gen 31:19)

The text does not condemn Rachel for idolatry but for stealing. Laban is not chastised for having idols. This is not evidence of the Second Commandment; it’s evidence of theft and deception.

3. “Don’t take God’s name in vain – men called on the name of the Lord” (Gen 4:26)

This actually proves the opposite.
Calling on God’s name is positive worship, not a prohibition of blasphemy. This is not connected to the Third Commandment.

4. “Keep the Sabbath – God blessed the seventh day” (Gen 2:3)

Nothing in Genesis 2 commands humans to keep the Sabbath. There is no Sabbath command until Exodus 16, and no covenantal Sabbath until Exodus 20 and 31. Even the SDA Bible Commentary acknowledges this.

5. “Honor father and mother – Ham dishonored Noah” (Gen 9:22–25)

The text speaks of shame and family disrespect, not a codified law. This is not framed as a breach of a divine commandment given by God.

6. “Don’t kill – Cain murdered Abel” (Gen 4:8–12)

Murder being wrong is universal natural law. You don’t need the Sixth Commandment for murder to be wrong—every ancient culture condemned it.

7. “Don’t commit adultery – Joseph refused Potiphar’s wife” (Gen 39:9)

Joseph speaks of this as a sin against God, but that does not prove the existence of the Decalogue. Sexual ethics existed in the ancient Near East far outside Israel.

8. “Don’t steal – Jacob & Laban” (Gen 31:37–39)

Again, theft is universally wrong.
There is no indication of a divine law code governing their behavior.

9. “Don’t bear false witness – Jacob deceived Isaac” (Gen 27:12)

Jacob wasn’t in a courtroom, which is what the Ninth Commandment actually refers to (bearing false witness). This passage proves deception is wrong, not that the commandment existed.

10. “Don’t covet – Eve coveted the fruit” (Gen 3:6)

Coveting existed before the Law, but again, this shows moral failure, not Mosaic legislation.

If the Ten Commandments existed from creation: Why does God say the Sinai covenant was not made with the patriarchs (Deut 5:3)? Why does Nehemiah say God made known the Sabbath only at Sinai (Neh 9:13–14)? Why is Israel the only nation judged by Sabbath violation, while Gentiles never are? Why is Sabbath called a sign between God and Israel (Ex 31:13–17), not between God and all humanity? If the commandments were universal from Eden, these distinctions make no sense.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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A covenant is an agreement. God's owns His commandments Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Exo31:18, they belong to Him not to Moses, not to Paul, but God, it contains His seal Exo20:11 not mans God made different agreements which doesn't take away from the Law God defined as His. You also added the word "only" in Neh9:13-14 when God's Word did not.
 
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DamianWarS

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The NT repeating moral principles isn’t the same thing as reinstating the Mosaic Law. Murder, adultery, idolatry, etc. were wrong long before Sinai, so of course the NT condemns them—but that doesn’t mean Christians are under the Ten Commandments.

The NT is clear:
“You are not under the Law.” (Rom 6:14)
“We died to the Law.” (Rom 7:4–6)
“The Law on stone tablets is fading.” (2 Cor 3:7–11)
“Don’t let anyone judge you over Sabbaths.” (Col 2:16–17)

The only command that doesn’t get reaffirmed in the NT as a moral expectation is the Sabbath—which is exactly the one SDA theology requires. Jesus indeed follows Sabbath requirement (but breaks free from it to do good [Mat 12:12]) he was also under obligation of the law being born into it, just as he was required to get circumcised.

The NT ethic is the law of Christ, not the Sinai covenant. Overlap ≠ obligation which is the fundamental assumption and mistake of the OP
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus never "broke free" from the Sabbath to do good, again adding to God's word- doing good was never breaking the Sabbath commandment- which Jesus always kept Luke4:16 John15:10 and we are to follow in His example 1John2:6 1Peter 2:21-22 not following the traditions and words of man over the commandments of God.Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14
 
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DamianWarS

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You’re mixing two different things:

1. the origin of the law and
2. the covenant in which that law functions.

Yes, the commandments ultimately come from God. No one disputes that. But Scripture is explicit that the Ten Commandments function as the terms of the Sinai covenant, not a timeless universal covenant:

“The LORD made a covenant with us at Horeb, NOT with our fathers.” —Deut 5:2–3

The tablets are called “the tablets of the covenant.” —Deut 9:9

And that covenant is now obsolete under Christ (Heb 8:13; 2 Cor 3:7–11).

Saying the law “belongs to God” doesn’t mean the Sinai covenant continues. circumsion laws, sacrificial laws, and purity laws “belong to God” too—but we don’t treat them as binding today

The real issue isn’t ownership; it’s covenantal administration. God gave the Ten Commandments as part of a specific agreement with Israel at a specific time, and the NT repeatedly says that covenant has ended and been replaced.

So yes, the law is God’s—but the covenant that made the Ten Commandments binding on Israel is not the covenant Christians live under. that doesn't mean we don't have overlaping values, and a careful study of the overlapping values could reveal something closer to a universal list, but the mere fact we have some things in common doesn't mean we are under the same requirement. you already accept this with so much of the law, it's just extending this to the whole law (including the 10)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Again the agreement is not the Law of God. For example- if I own a software program and I make a covenant or agreement with you, the terms of the agreement might be a little different than the agreement/covenant I make with someone else. Its the same software and I still own it. God's Laws is God's He owns it, He wrote it Exo31:18 , He spoke it Exo20:1, its His works Exo32:16 not Moses, it contains His seal Exo20:11, He claimed them as "His" Deut4:13 Exo20:6 they do not belong to Moses, or Paul or anyone but to God.


The Law of God is not tied to Sinai as we see clearly with the Sabbath starting at Creation before Sinai, before Jew, before Moses, according to God Exo20:11. A covenant is an agreement, not the Ten Commandments. God made many agreements, and when it comes to the Law of God, only He can define which He did both written and spoken by God. Exo31:18

Yes.. He made the old covenant or agreement obsolete, but not changing the words of the agreement or covenant, the location of where He placed them changed, the Ten Commandments Exo34:28 they went from tablets of stone (only the Ten Commandments Deut4:13) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God always keeping His promises. The Law was never the issue Psa19:7 Rom7:12 the issue is the heart of man going after idols Eze20:16 in many forms like when we place our words above God's is another example, instead of staying faithful to God and allowing Him to be God to define things, which He does, sadly man just doesn't like it. Sin is still in the NC 1John3:4 James2:11 and we do not determine what is right or wrong, God's does Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 and His is everlasting Psa119:142
 
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bbbbbbb

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A covenant is, indeed, an agreement. Israel agreed (covenanted) to obey all of God's commandments, not just ten of them. Christians are under agreement to a new covenant instituted by Jesus Christ on Calvary, and have no obligation to obey all of God's commandments in the old covenant, nor could they if they even wanted to. There is no temple in Jerusalem for anyone, including Jews, to obey all of God's commandments regarding sacrifices.
 
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DamianWarS

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your confusing my meaning interpreting "break free" with "break"

Jesus didn’t “break” the Sabbath, but He did redefine its boundaries, which is exactly the issue in passages like Matthew 12. When He says: “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” (Matt 12:12)

He isn’t quoting Moses or any decree/commandment of God. He is asserting His own authority to declare what is and is not lawful by critically approach the law. It's no mistake the same chapter includes: “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” (Matt 12:8). Matthew intentionally put these together so that we can draw a connection to Christ's authority over the sabbath in action.

If you’re the Lord of something, you’re not merely keeping it as written—you’re the One who can interpret it, reshape it, or end it.

Yes, Jesus kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16), but that’s because He was born under the Law (Gal 4:4). His Sabbath-keeping is part of His faithfulness as an Israelite, not a template that Christians must remain under the Sinai covenant. And the NT is clear that Sabbath isn’t binding on believers: Col 2:16–17 — don’t let anyone judge you over Sabbaths, Rom 14:5 — some regard a day, some don’t, Gal 4:10–11 — Paul rebukes returning to required “days”.

Appealing to Jesus’ example doesn’t bring Christians back under the old covenant (or under the 10) Following Him means living under the law of Christ, not the covenant He fulfilled (Heb 8:13; 2 Cor 3:6–11). we Infact inherit the fulfilled covenant through him. Matthew 12:12 doesn’t preserve Sabbath law obligation, it shows Jesus exercising divine authority over it, his resolve was clearly a nouvelle idea when he spoke it. it doesn't matter how you brand it, Christ had authority to present it this way, it's his Sabbath and it points to him, he uses that moment to highlight its core values.
 
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DamianWarS

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You’re mixing two categories:

1. God as the source of all moral truth
vs.
2. the Ten Commandments as the covenant document of Sinai.

Yes, the 10 “belongs to God.” That doesn’t make them timeless or universal. The Bible explicitly ties them to Sinai: Deut 4:13 — “His covenant…the Ten Commandments.” Exod 34:28 — “the words of the covenant: the Ten Commandments.” Deut 5:2–3 — God did not make this covenant with the patriarchs. If the 10 were already binding since creation, Deut 5:3 makes no sense.

The “Sabbath at creation” claim also doesn’t work—Genesis contains no command for humans to keep it, and Neh 9:13–14 says God “made known” the Sabbath at Sinai.A nd the NT is clear that the covenant written on stone tablets (the 10) is: a “ministry of death,” “fading away,” and replaced by the new covenant (2 Cor 3; Heb 8).

So yes, God authored the commandments—but authorship ≠ covenantal permanence.
The issue isn’t who wrote them; it’s which covenant Christians are under.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You are micro-quoting the Scriptures and reading what you want into them. Yes, the New Covenant is God's Laws now written in the heart Heb8:10 2Cor3:3. Who defines God's Laws, God or us? I am going with God.


Why its still a sin to break His laws 1John3:4 from the "He who said" which is God, breaking one we break them all and become a transgressor of the law (sinners) James2:11 where if we continue practicing there remains no more sacrifice for sins Heb10:26-30 unless we turn from (forsake Pro28:13) our old ways and turn to Christ abiding in Him, keeping His commandments through love and faith. John15:10 the same ones Jesus kept 1John2:6 Luke4:16

The issue is who wrote them because man wants to replace God's commandments with their own man-made commandments and traditions, exactly what Jesus warned us about Mat15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Trying to redefine one of them sadly puts us in the place of God because there is no one above Him or His written and spoken Testimony Exp31:18 that He said he would not alter. Psa89:34 Deut4:13

This is really the heart of the issue, man thinks they know better than He and tries to edit the words of God He said He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-30 Ecc3:14 the commandment He warned us people would do Dan7:25 which is why we see it being attacked from so many different angles. Because without the blessings of God Isa59:2 and sanctification of God Eze20:12 both tied to the Sabbath thus saith the Lord, we really are nothing Isa66:17, we need God for everything Eze20:20

I think we have discussed this to death and I am going to move on, and agree to disagree all will get sorted out in God's time.
 
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DamianWarS

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You’re assuming “God’s laws written on the heart” = the Ten Commandments unchanged, but that’s not what Hebrews or Paul say. Hebrews 8 never lists the 10, never mentions the Sabbath, and never says the Sinai covenant is transferred intact—it says the covenant is replaced, not recopied (Heb 8:13).

The “law written on the heart” is the new-covenant law of Christ, not the tablets of stone. Paul explicitly distinguishes them: The law written on stone = “ministry of death… fading away” (2 Cor 3:7–11). The law written on hearts = the new covenant of the Spirit (2 Cor 3:3,6).

Those are not the same thing. 1 John 3:4 and James 2 don’t say the Mosaic law remains binding—they simply say sin is lawlessness, not “sin = breaking the 10” If that were the case, then all Mosaic commands would still apply (circumcision, sacrifices, festivals), which even you don’t practice.

Jesus’ warning in Matthew 15/Mark 7 is about adding human traditions, not about interpreting covenant transitions that the NT itself teaches. Paul, Hebrews, and Jesus all affirm that covenants change—what doesn’t change is God’s faithfulness, not the covenant terms (Heb 7:12; Heb 8:6; 2 Cor 3; Gal 3:24–25).

We’re not “editing God’s words”—we’re simply letting the NT interpret the OC in the way the apostles actually present it. I’m fine to leave it here too, but just wanted to clarify that disagreeing with your interpretation isn’t the same as redefining God’s law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I pray this helps. The Bible is meant to be prayerfully studied, and we need to be careful especially when we are trying to make Paul contradict the plain teachings of God. Paul came after Jesus ratified His covenant. He was commissioned to spread the gospel not change God's comamndment and times and laws and put him in the place of God. Paul said he was a servant of God, and a servant is not greater than their master, so lets not elevate Paul above God. God answered this argument clearly Psa89:34 Deut4:13 Mat5:18-19, so nothing else can mean anything else because no one is above God. Exo31:18 Paul can only lead us to Christ, lets not let him lead us to our destruction 2Peter 3:16 away from Christ Mat7:23 Rev22:15 (compared to inside Rev22:14)

Bible study on 2Cor3:3

Since the law was written in the hearts of the Corinthians, and they literally became living, moving and walking epistles, it follows that the Law was not abolished, but rather changed from tables of stone to “fleshy tables of the heart” (verses 2- 3). One need not tell them to avoid stealing, killing or lying. So long as they continue submitted to the Spirit, they will live the precepts of the Law in their lives. They are “known and read by all men.” How then, pray tell, has the Ten Commandments been abolished?

Two things are mentioned as done away, the ministration of that which was engraved on stone, along with the glory that was shining on the face of Moses (verses 7-16). The latter was replaced by Christ’s more glorious face, according to verses 13-18. But what does Paul mean by “ministration?” The word holds the original meaning of service towards others. Note that it was not the Decalogue itself, but the ministration of it, or the then instituted manner of teaching and enforcing it, that was abolished, to be succeeded by the ministration of the same Law by the apostles and the Spirit (3:3, 4:1)!
The ultimate proof that the Ten Commandment are not here being spoken of as abolished is in verse 12:

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, [which] put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished.”

In Exodus 34 we read the story to which Paul is referring to. It says in verse 29 that “when Moses came down from Mount Sinai” the “two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand…” Thus they could look at the Decalogue. What, then, was it that they could not look at? “And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face… And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him” (verses 33-25). What the Israelites could “not stedfastly look” at was the face of Moses when he covered it. That was what was abolished, to be replaced by the face of Christ!
Unfortunately, this veil still prevented their hearts from seeing the glory of Christ when they read the scriptures. But when that heart is turned to the Lord, “the vail shall be taken away” and they shall behold “the glory of the Lord” (verses 14-18). These same people have the Law in their hearts, manifest it through their actions and as a result do not go around saying that it has been abolished.

THE LONG ANSWER

2 Corinthians 3 is the critic’s go-to when they want to claim that the Ten Commandments have been abolished, but a closer examination of each text in question reveals a different story.(6)Before speaking of what has been abolished, Paul actually establishes the Ten Commandments by revealing that the Corinthians are living examples of what the New Covenant looks like in living form. They are the epistle because, as the New Covenant promised, the Ten Commandments have been written in their hearts (cf. verses 1-3, Jer. 31:33). In other words, far from being abolished, they are reestablished in a better location, from tables of stone to “fleshy table of the heart” (verse 3). Keep in mind that we are literally talking about the Ten Commandments here, because that is the allusion when the text speaks about “tables of stone.”
What does the text mean by the heart? Not the literal organ of course. The heart represents the mind, the seat of all thoughts, intellect, passions, desires, affections and endeavors. The mind is what makes who we are in person and character, and dictates our actions in the physical realm. “For as he thinketh in his heart” says the wise man, “so is he” (Prov. 23:7). So then, if the Law was written in their hearts, it has become a natural part of their very being. One need not tell them to avoid stealing, killing or lying. They know the Law, their very impulse, so long as they continue submitted to the Spirit, is to obey God. Their lives demonstrate it’s precepts to the whole world as if they were living, walking, and talking epistles. People can read the Law in their lives and character. They are “known and read by all men.” How then, pray tell, has the Ten Commandments been abolished? Any thinking man with reasoning powers can see that such a claim flies in the face of the very point that Paul is trying to make here!
With this in mind we know for sure that what follows in this chapter cannot now say that the Ten Commandments have been abolished. Therefore, a critical look at each reference to something being abolished reveals exactly what those things were. Let us do that now:

Two things are mentioned as done away with here, the ministration of that which was engraved on stone, along with the glory that was shining on the face of Moses. The latter was replaced by Christ’s more glorious face, according to verses 13-18. But what does Paul mean by “ministration?” The word holds the original meaning of service towards others. Note that it was not the Decalogue itself, but the ministration of it, or the then instituted manner of teaching and enforcing it, that was abolished, to be succeeded by the ministration of the same Law by the apostles and the Spirit (3:3, 4:1)! It is like taking a man from point A to point B on a bike versus taking him on a car. The car is the better, faster way. But changing the mode of transportation does not change the man being transported. Whereas before of their own strength the people sought to reach the standard of the moral precepts of the Decalogue,(8) now God takes His people there by using His Spirit to write the Ten Commandments in their hearts.
Recall the New Covenant promise, “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts.” “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].” (Jer. 31:33, Eze. 36:26-27). Clearly what was removed was the manner in which that law is given. The ministration changed, not the Law.
The ultimate proof that the Ten Commandment are not here being spoken of as abolished is in verse 12:

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, [which] put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished.”
In Exodus 34 we read the story to which Paul is referring to. It says in verse 29 that “when Moses came down from Mount Sinai” the “two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand…” Thus they could look at the Decalogue. What, then, was it that they could not look at? “And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face… And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him” (verses 33-25). What the Israelites could “not stedfastly look” at was the face of Moses when he covered it. That was what was abolished, to be replaced by the face of Christ!
Unfortunately, this veil still prevented their hearts from seeing the glory of Christ when they read the scriptures. But when that heart is turned to the Lord, “the vail shall be taken away” and they shall behold “the glory of the Lord” (verses 14-18).

Two things remain to be addressed. What did Paul mean when he said that the letter kills, and why did he address the Ten Commandments as the ministration of death and condemnation? One answer will suffice to reply to both these questions. The phrase “letter of the law” is an idiomatic phrase contrasting the spiritual, or principles of the law from the literal keeping of the words of the law. That there are these two aspects to the Law is made crystal clear by Jesus when he used the seventh commandment as an example. One can keep the letter (literally having relations with another woman outside your marriage) and yet break the spiritual aspect (lusting after that woman in your heart).(10) When one tries to keep the letter of the law, without the spiritual principles, you will fail, and thus be condemned to death by it. Moreover, when you are not aware of the Law, it will condemn you once you do become aware of it, because you will see that you are in violation. This is why the Law is called the ministration of death and condemnation, because it kills you and condemns you when you break it, not when you keep it!
Paul does not go deep into explaining what he means by death and condemnation here, but he does in Romans. Notice:

It was the moment he became aware that he was in violation of the tenth commandment that the Law condemned him to death. You see the problem was not in keeping the commandment, but in not keeping the commandment! Note the next three verses:

Three important details I want to highlight here:

  1. The fact that the Law points out his sin places no fault on the law, but on him. Thus the Law is “holy, just and good.”
  2. It was sin that produced death in him. The commandment pointed out his fault, and in this way brings death only when you are in violation of it!
  3. Did the fact that the commandment pointed out his sin mean that he no longer had to keep it? Of course not! He clearly said that that which is good, the Law, has not become death to him.
It would not be the first time that the Law is spoken of in this manner. Notice how David speaks of the Law in the same way but uses that as motivation to actually keep it!

The critics view their inability of keeping the Law as a reason to avoid it or believe it must have been abolished. But the Bible views our inability to keep it as a reason to cry out to God for strength to obey!

Now, how can the Law be both death/condemnation and also “holy, just and good?” As explained above, it is death when breaking it, but life when keeping it. The old “ministration” of the Ten Commandments under Moses came with punishments and death when broken. Since the people could not keep the Law (Heb. 8:8), God now has a new ministration, the ministration of righteousness. God is now placing the Law in the heart of the individual who desires it, causing him to obey it, and thus avoiding the penalty that comes with breaking it. It is too bad that the critics interpret 2 Cor. 3 to mean that the Law has been abolished. Not only is that contrary to the context, but it leads the believer to go on breaking a Law he thinks is abolished!
The very next chapter says that the life of Christ is made “manifest” through the believer (2 Cor. 4:10-11). This is the very essence of the New Covenant. Christ lives His life, a life of obedience, through the acts of the believer, essentially causing him to live the moral precepts of the Law that has been written in his heart. So rather then going around saying that the Ten Commandments have been abolished, the believer, living under the New Covenant, will both manifest obedience to them through his acts and proclaim the importance of obedience to others as well.

 
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DamianWarS

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You’re assuming the one thing Paul is arguing against—that the New Covenant simply moves the Ten Commandments from stone to heart. But Hebrews 8 and 2 Corinthians 3 never say that.

Hebrews 8: The covenant is replaced, not recopied. The old covenant is obsolete (v.13). If the 10 were the eternal law of the New Covenant, Hebrews would say so. It doesn’t.

2 Corinthians 3: The law written on stone = “ministry of death… fading away.” That is the Ten Commandments. Paul doesn’t separate “ministration” from “content”—the content engraved on stone is what condemned.

The veil isn’t what passed away; the covenant mediated by Moses did. Writing God’s law on the heart doesn’t prove the 10 remain unchanged. If that logic were consistent, we’d still be required to keep feasts, circumcision, and penalties God also “spoke and wrote" even presented at the exact same time as the 10.

The NT’s actual contrast is: Old Covenant: external, written, condemning with New Covenant: Spirit-driven, internal, life-giving
Not “same law, new delivery system.”

And Deut 4:13, Exod 34:28, and Deut 5:2–3 all explicitly tie the Ten Commandments to the Sinai covenant, not to creation or the New Covenant. So the issue isn’t “Paul contradicting God.” It’s that this interpretation you're defending contradicts Paul, Hebrews, and the covenant language of the OT itself.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I do not believe Paul ever went in rebellion to God or His commandments Rom8:7-8 and taught to be a sinner Rom7:7 and dishonor God Rom2:21-23

The ministration changed from Moses to Christ, not the law of God 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God always keeps His promises, The Law was never the issue written by the Holy Spirit of Truth, the heart of man is, rebelling against what God asks, has always been the issue Eze20:13 Eze 20:16 Heb4:11

The Law of God never changes, it belongs to God Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 because His word is settled Psa119:89 His righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 everlasting Psa119:142 We need to conform to Him, He has given us everything and asks for so little Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3
 
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DamianWarS

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I’m not saying Paul rebelled against God. I’m saying Paul himself draws a covenantal distinction you’re refusing to acknowledge.

The issue isn’t Paul contradicting God—it’s Paul explaining what God changed in Christ. 2 Cor 3 does not say “the ministration changed but the law stayed the same.” Paul explicitly says the thing written on stone (the Ten Commandments) was the ministry of death that is fading away (vv. 7–11). The contrast isn’t Moses vs Christ—it’s old covenant vs new covenant.

Likewise, Hebrews 8:10 never identifies the New Covenant law as the Sinai law. And Heb 8:13 says the old covenant (Deut 4:13 calls this covenant the Ten Commandments) is obsolete. That’s not rebellion—that’s the Bible’s own covenant language.

You also keep quoting verses about obedience, love, and faithfulness—which every Christian affirms. But none of those verses say the Sinai covenant continues unchanged. They describe obedience to Christ, not a return to tablets of stone. Revelation 14:12 and 22:14 don’t identify the Ten Commandments—John consistently uses “commandments” to refer to the teachings of Jesus (cf. Rev 12:17, John 15:10, 1 John 3:23).

The real issue isn’t a lack of desire to obey God. It’s simply recognizing that God Himself changed the covenant, and the New Testament repeatedly says so.

Happy to leave it there, but wanted to clarify that disagreeing with your interpretation isn’t rejecting God’s law—it’s following the covenant framework the apostles actually taught.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You are trying to reconcile God to Paul, that his writings came with a salvation warning 2Peter3:16 why we need to the other way around. Once you do this, you will see Paul never changed the Law of God that God said He would not. 2Cor3:3 says exactly that the law of God went from tablets of stone (only the Ten) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 it doesn't say anything about it being a different law, one would have to add that to the Text to make that argument.

3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink (man writing on scrolls all the laws except for the Ten Commandments) but by the Spirit of the living God ( Ten Commandments Exo31:18) , not on tablets of stone (Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo32:16 Exo31:18) but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. (New Covenant- God's Laws written in the heart Heb8:10) established on better promises Heb8:6 not new laws. because God spoke clearly on this matter Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 the law of God was never the issue Psa19:7 Rom7:12 and no one is above God to change the Law of God, not even Paul, nor would Paul, its just misunderstanding Paul as we were told would happen



7 But if the ministry of death Rom6:23 , written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, (Paul is quoting a story from the OT)

What was passing away? the glory of Moses face when leaving the presence of God, not the Law of God, again one would have to add that in the Text

8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Nothing about the Law of God passing away. The ministration changed from Moses to Christ, from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart based on what God does, if we do not rebel Rom8:7-8

We really need to read Scripture through the lens of God and not man. If one does this we will see a clear picture emerge that God does not change, He makes no mistakes, the mistakes are always from man.
 
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DamianWarS

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You say I'm “reconciling God to Paul,” but Paul’s writings are God’s word (2 Tim 3:16, 2 Pet 3:15-16). The problem is not Paul—it’s your assumption that “law written on the heart = the same Sinai code on stone.” 2 Cor 3 never says that. You are adding that idea to the text. Paul’s entire contrast is between two covenants (old vs. new), not between “same law, new location.”

2 Cor 3:7–11 explicitly says the thing engraved on stone—not Moses’ face—is the “ministry of death” and is passing away. Paul doesn’t say the glory on Moses’ skin was passing away; he says the ministry written on stone was. That’s the text. You’re reversing it to protect a conclusion the passage does not teach.

Hebrews also contradicts your reading:
The old covenant (called the Ten Commandments in Deut 4:13) is “obsolete” (Heb 8:13). The new covenant is established on “better promises,” not the re-installation of the Sinai treaty. Hebrews never says the 10 = the New Covenant law. The NT writers don’t place Christians back under the Sinai code; they place them under Christ (Rom 8:2, Gal 6:2, John 15:10). Revelation uses “commandments” the same way John always does—referring to Christ’s teaching (1 John 3:23), not to the tablets of Sinai.

So the issue isn’t that I’m reading Scripture “through the lens of man.” The issue is that your interpretation requires ignoring the plain statements that the old covenant—the one defined by the tablets of stone—has been replaced.

Happy to leave it there, but the text simply doesn’t support the idea that the Ten Commandments continue unchanged as the New Covenant law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I never said Paul's writing is not Scripture or inspired, but in the inspired Scripture we are warned about people twisting Paul's writings as they do the rest of Scripture to their own destruction. Paul in the inspired writings is still not God or above His words. No one is. So if we are using Paul's writings against God's own promises, I personally would be concerned about the warning.

The New Covenant has been addressed so many times about what God placed in the hearts of His New Covenant believers- His Laws- only God can define them, not us and He did written and spoken by God Exo31:18 that Jesus not to destroy Mat5:17 but to fulfill or magnify Isa 42:21 which means make greater not smaller as most teach as if Jesus failed. He promised not to edit His words Deut4:13 Psa89:34 Mat 5:18-19, I am going to stick with what He said James2:11. . Why its still a sin to break God's Laws 1John3:4 James2:11 because man is not God, nor will they ever be. We can't make something perfect written by the Holy Spirit more perfect Psa19:7 Rom7:12 the issue will always be man, not the Law of God. We can rebel Rom8:7-8 that's always a choice or we can keep them and trust God knows what He is doing Exo20:6 John14:15. Life is about choices and our choices comes with consequences Rom6:16 that one day cannot be changed Rev22:11
 
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