Love and Non-Resistance

[real tree]

Jesus rebuked Peter and he told him:

(a) To put his sword back into it's place.
(b) That he that lives by the Sword shall die by the Sword (Which was not a compliment).
(c) That he could have called down a ton of angels to protect Himself and did not need his protection.

Jesus did not praise Peter for taking up his sword and for chopping off the Roman soldier's ear.

Also, the Word of God is compared to a sword in Ephesians 6 by Paul and by the author of Hebrews in Hebrews 4.


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Okay was this a spiritual sword or an actual physical sword.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay was this a spiritual sword or an actual physical sword.

Many people were always misunderstanding Jesus (Including his disciples).
Nicodemus thought Jesus was originally talking about a physical birth in relation to being born again. However, Jesus was talking about a spiritual birth. His disciples did not fully understand about His words on the resurrection until after He was risen, as well. So when Jesus told them to buy a sword, Jesus meant the spiritual sword even though they brought forth physical swords. Seeing Jesus rebuked Peter for using a physical and real sword, Jesus obviously was referring to the fact before that He meant a spiritual sword (and not a physical one). For when the disciples brought forth two swords, Jesus said, "That is enough." However, both physical swords were not used successfully against the Romans and Jesus rebuked Peter for using the one sword. So the disciples simply misunderstood Jesus.

For surely we do not see how the two physical swords had helped in any way against the Romans. God the Father knew that Christ's disciples would misunderstand, and God used this as a means of fulfilling prophecy; But Jesus was still referring to the spiritual sword and not a physical one. If not, then Jesus would have praised Peter for using his physical sword and He would not have rebuked him.

In other words, if what you say is true, then that would sort of be like Bob telling his dog to poop on the carpet and then later when the dog actually releases a steaming hot pile of dog poo upon Bob's carpet, he then yells at the dog for doing so. Such a thing would not make any sense. Yet, if Bob was only joking with his dog in telling him to poop on the carpet (because the dog is known for doing that), then things begin to make a little more sense as to what Bob really meant as a part of his original words to his dog.


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[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

Love seeks to do only good towards our enemies. Jesus was willing to lay down his very own life so as to save mankind from his sin. It is written that Christ is our example and we are to walk as Christ walked. So if believers are to walk as Christ walked according to Scripture, then they will not act in violence out of self defense but they will act in such a way so as to lay down their life for Christ in all given situations.

I think your theology has holes in it here:


Acts 10 Modern English Version (MEV)
Peter and Cornelius
10 In Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, the centurion of a band of soldiers called the Italian Detachment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave many alms to the people and continually prayed to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius.”

4 When he looked at him he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?”

He said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up as a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and bring back Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.”

7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who continually waited on him. 8 When he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.

9 The next day as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray about the sixth hour. 10 He became very hungry and desired to eat. But while they prepared a meal, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened, and a vessel like a great sheet, tied at the four corners, descending to him, and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth and wild beasts and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 Peter said, “Not at all, Lord. For I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time: “What God has cleansed, do not call common.”

16 This happened three times. And again the vessel was taken up into heaven.

17 Now while Peter wondered what this vision which he had seen might mean, the men who were sent by Cornelius had inquired for Simon’s house and stood at the gate, 18 and called and asked whether Simon, who was surnamed Peter, was lodging there.

19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Three men are looking for you. 20 So rise and go down, and go with them, doubting nothing. For I have sent them.”

21 Then Peter went down to the men who were sent to him by Cornelius and said, “Here I am, the one you are seeking. Why have you come?”

22 They said, “Cornelius, a centurion, a man who is righteous and fears God and is of good report throughout the nation of the Jews, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house to hear your words.” 23 Then he invited them in and gave them lodging.

The next day Peter went with them, and some brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the next day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up. I myself am a man.”

27 As he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 He said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jew to visit or approach a foreigner. But God has shown me not to call any man common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without question. Therefore I ask why you have sent for me.”

30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour. At the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and suddenly a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered before God. 32 Therefore send to Joppa for Simon, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.’ 33 So immediately I sent for you, and you have done well to come. Now therefore we are all here, present before God, to hear everything the Lord has commanded you.”

Peter Speaks in Cornelius’ House
34 Then Peter began to speak, saying, “Truthfully, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. 35 But in every nation he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which He sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, 37 the word, which you know, that was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

39 “We are witnesses of all that He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 But God raised Him on the third day and presented Him publicly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses previously chosen by God, to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets bear witness that whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins through His name.”

Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word. 45 All the believers of the circumcision who had come with Peter were astonished, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues and magnifying God.

Then Peter continued, 47 “Can anyone forbid water for baptizing these, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?” 48 So he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.


If it is really the case as you state, Jason, how do you explain the case of Cornelius, the Centurion and his household?


God bless you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Peace be with you.




I think your theology has holes in it here:


Acts 10 Modern English Version (MEV)
Peter and Cornelius
10 In Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, the centurion of a band of soldiers called the Italian Detachment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave many alms to the people and continually prayed to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius.”

4 When he looked at him he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?”

He said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up as a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and bring back Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.”

7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who continually waited on him. 8 When he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.

9 The next day as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray about the sixth hour. 10 He became very hungry and desired to eat. But while they prepared a meal, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened, and a vessel like a great sheet, tied at the four corners, descending to him, and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth and wild beasts and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 Peter said, “Not at all, Lord. For I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time: “What God has cleansed, do not call common.”

16 This happened three times. And again the vessel was taken up into heaven.

17 Now while Peter wondered what this vision which he had seen might mean, the men who were sent by Cornelius had inquired for Simon’s house and stood at the gate, 18 and called and asked whether Simon, who was surnamed Peter, was lodging there.

19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Three men are looking for you. 20 So rise and go down, and go with them, doubting nothing. For I have sent them.”

21 Then Peter went down to the men who were sent to him by Cornelius and said, “Here I am, the one you are seeking. Why have you come?”

22 They said, “Cornelius, a centurion, a man who is righteous and fears God and is of good report throughout the nation of the Jews, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house to hear your words.” 23 Then he invited them in and gave them lodging.

The next day Peter went with them, and some brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the next day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up. I myself am a man.”

27 As he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 He said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jew to visit or approach a foreigner. But God has shown me not to call any man common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without question. Therefore I ask why you have sent for me.”

30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour. At the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and suddenly a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered before God. 32 Therefore send to Joppa for Simon, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.’ 33 So immediately I sent for you, and you have done well to come. Now therefore we are all here, present before God, to hear everything the Lord has commanded you.”

Peter Speaks in Cornelius’ House
34 Then Peter began to speak, saying, “Truthfully, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. 35 But in every nation he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which He sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, 37 the word, which you know, that was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

39 “We are witnesses of all that He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 But God raised Him on the third day and presented Him publicly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses previously chosen by God, to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets bear witness that whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins through His name.”

Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word. 45 All the believers of the circumcision who had come with Peter were astonished, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues and magnifying God.

Then Peter continued, 47 “Can anyone forbid water for baptizing these, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?” 48 So he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.


If it is really the case as you state, Jason, how do you explain the case of Cornelius, the Centurion and his household?


God bless you.

In another thread you just recently told me you don't like using Scripture. Now you are using Scripture. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyways, in reply to your passage you used:

Well, here is a good article on this one.

Cornelius and New Testament Non-Resistance.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Peace be with you.




I think your theology has holes in it here:


Acts 10 Modern English Version (MEV)
Peter and Cornelius
10 In Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, the centurion of a band of soldiers called the Italian Detachment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave many alms to the people and continually prayed to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius.”

4 When he looked at him he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?”

He said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up as a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and bring back Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.”

7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who continually waited on him. 8 When he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.

9 The next day as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray about the sixth hour. 10 He became very hungry and desired to eat. But while they prepared a meal, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened, and a vessel like a great sheet, tied at the four corners, descending to him, and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth and wild beasts and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 Peter said, “Not at all, Lord. For I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time: “What God has cleansed, do not call common.”

16 This happened three times. And again the vessel was taken up into heaven.

17 Now while Peter wondered what this vision which he had seen might mean, the men who were sent by Cornelius had inquired for Simon’s house and stood at the gate, 18 and called and asked whether Simon, who was surnamed Peter, was lodging there.

19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Three men are looking for you. 20 So rise and go down, and go with them, doubting nothing. For I have sent them.”

21 Then Peter went down to the men who were sent to him by Cornelius and said, “Here I am, the one you are seeking. Why have you come?”

22 They said, “Cornelius, a centurion, a man who is righteous and fears God and is of good report throughout the nation of the Jews, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house to hear your words.” 23 Then he invited them in and gave them lodging.

The next day Peter went with them, and some brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the next day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up. I myself am a man.”

27 As he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 He said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jew to visit or approach a foreigner. But God has shown me not to call any man common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without question. Therefore I ask why you have sent for me.”

30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour. At the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and suddenly a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered before God. 32 Therefore send to Joppa for Simon, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.’ 33 So immediately I sent for you, and you have done well to come. Now therefore we are all here, present before God, to hear everything the Lord has commanded you.”

Peter Speaks in Cornelius’ House
34 Then Peter began to speak, saying, “Truthfully, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. 35 But in every nation he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which He sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, 37 the word, which you know, that was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

39 “We are witnesses of all that He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 But God raised Him on the third day and presented Him publicly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses previously chosen by God, to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets bear witness that whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins through His name.”

Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word. 45 All the believers of the circumcision who had come with Peter were astonished, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues and magnifying God.

Then Peter continued, 47 “Can anyone forbid water for baptizing these, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?” 48 So he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.


If it is really the case as you state, Jason, how do you explain the case of Cornelius, the Centurion and his household?


God bless you.

Also, please check out the 36 verses on NT Non-Resistance I posted along with the most common other objections to New Testament (NT) Non-Resistance in Post #38 within this thread.


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[Dave-W]

Okay was this a spiritual sword or an actual physical sword.

You cannot chop off an ear by quoting bible verses.

It was a physical sword.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, Peter used a physical sword and Jesus rebuked him for using it. This would not make any sense if Jesus was the one who told them to get a physical sword in the first place unless Jesus was referring to the spiritual sword (i.e. the Word of God). So Christ's disciples merely misunderstood Jesus and they were thinking in carnal (physical) terms. Nicodemus did this with Jesus. He thought Jesus was talking about a physical birth but Jesus was talking about a spiritual birth.

It is why Jesus says elsewhere,
"...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63).


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[Phil 1:21]

You cannot chop off an ear by quoting bible verses.

It was a physical sword.

Yes, and why did Jesus tell Peter to put his sword away? Matthew 26:54 "But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in scripture that would be fulfilled by me letting some meth-head kill me for my wallet or car. Sam Colt and I have 45 reasons why that wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[real tree]

You cannot chop off an ear by quoting bible verses.

It was a physical sword.

I know, I was curious what the original poster would say on the matter.

 

[Radrook]

Funny how rule-thinking can be used to seemingly justify the construction of the road to perdition based on good intentions.

 

[ananda]

It is written that Christ is our example and we are to walk as Christ walked. So if believers are to walk as Christ walked according to Scripture, then they will not act in violence ...

How do you walk as Christ in light of texts such as Luke 19:27, Revelation 2:16, Revelation 19:15, Revelation 19:21?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How do you walk as Christ in light of texts such as Luke 19:27,

This is a parable. Not a command. The parable of the Minas is about a believer not being profitable for the Kingdom of God. They had resources available to them that God provided to them to be fruitful for His Kingdom in this life and yet one of them decided to do their own thing. So at the Judgment, the unfruitful or unprofitable servant will not hear nice words by their Lord (See Matthew 7). The Judgment takes place after a believer has already lived out their faith here upon this Earth.

Revelation 2:16, Revelation 19:15 , Revelation 19:21?

The "sword of His mouth" is speaking about Christ's return in how He will destroy anyone who does not repent, including unrepentant churches who are justifying horrible sins. This is not talking about the believer who is living out their faith. The saints who follow Christ at His 2nd coming will be disembodied saints who have already lived out their faith already.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Funny how rule-thinking can be used to seemingly justify the construction of the road to perdition based on good intentions.

Your welcome to make your case for violent force as a means for self defense under the New Testament any time instead of throwing around insults.


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[ananda]

... the unfruitful or unprofitable servant will not hear nice words by their Lord ... He will destroy anyone who does not repent, including unrepentant churches who are justifying horrible sins.

So, in these cases, you are not to walk as Christ walks, then?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So, in these cases, you are not to walk as Christ walks, then?

Well, faith is lived out here upon this Earth and not when you are dead.


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[Radrook]

Your welcome to make your case for violent force as a means for self defense under the New Testament any time instead of throwing around insults.


...

I am not attempting to insult anyone. I am just participating in a discussion. Sorry if I gave that impression.

 

[real tree]

I am not attempting to insult anyone. I am just participating in a discussion. Sorry if I gave that impression.

Grow some thick skin and quit being so sensitive.

 

[Radrook]

Grow some thick skin and quit being so sensitive.

The one who is being sensitive is the one who complained that I am insulting him. You have it all backwards. Why?

 

[real tree]

The one who is being sensitive is the one who complained that I am insulting him. You have it all backwards. Why?

You are right I have it backwards I apologise. I was referring to the other as being oversensitive not you. Once again I apologise. I quoted the wrong post.

 

[JustHereToTalk]

I think this article plucks the words of Jesus grossly out of their context and glosses over a simple thing that Jesus said. Be they pacifists who try to cram in some symbolic meaning to resolve a conflict in their interpretations, or apologists for arms who want to play Jesus up as some revolter, why do these authors always yank out that single phrase, without considering the whole thought?

Luk 22
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Q: What is the context? What was going on here?

A: Jesus was about to be crucified, and his flock scattered.

Q: Ignore the phrase about the sword for a moment. What was Jesus telling them to do?

A: Where before he had told them to take nothing with them and trust God, now he was telling them to be pragmatic, and take provisions with them.

Q: What did he tell them to take?

A: Items that a traveler takes with him: A purse, a scrip (like an ancient checkbook), one garment, and a sword. Why would a traveler need a sword? Because he sleeps on the road, where robbers and rapists and thugs and wild animals are. Obvious.

Jesus wasn't being symbolic here, as convenient as that would be for you Christians who are always trying to take things literally in every other corner, nor was he starting an armed revolt, nor was he really telling them to even arm themselves - he was just telling them to be pragmatic, and make provisions for living on the run.

Now, although getting armed to the teeth wasn't the point, this passage does, unquestionably, blow "Biblical Pacifism" completely out of the water. This passage proves that Jesus was pragmatic, as any sane person should be, about defending oneself against blatant attack by robbers and murderers. When Jesus instructed his followers to turn the other cheek also, he wasn't telling them to let thugs come into their houses to rape their wives and kill their children. A guy who would say that wouldn't be worth following.