Lost The Election!

[AdoptedSon]

I campaigned For 'Christian' But I lost the ELECTION!

Don't think I'll run again! Just a joke, alright?


I THOUGHT at one time in my life That I was a Christian, then I began to read about election, and I quickly came to the conclusion that there is no possibility that I can ever be a Christian!


Consider this, First I have no will of my own, I make no chocies of my own, all decisions are made for me by God, and I have no self control over anything I do or say.

All my actiuons, good, or bad, are completely controlled by God, and I am in no way a part of anything that occurs in my life.

God has been in control of all the things that Have happened to me, and HE has determineds by his own will that I NOT be a Christian.


IF he wanted me to be a Christian he would come and tell me audibly that he did, this is true because no one can come to God unless the Holy Spirit draws them to him.

This MUST certainly mean that all those who are truly born again, were visited by God in a personal way, and audibly given their assurance of salvation by God himself.


I finally figured it out!


God loves, and saves for eternal life who he will, and he despises, hates, and condemns those he he wills to reject.

 

[cygnusx1]

 

[AdoptedSon]

'Bout what I expected..... ​

 

[mlqurgw]

'Bout what I expected..... ​

Glad we didn't let you down. You come into a room for Calvinists and spout off nonsense that we have all heard so many other times in so many other ways and expect us to respond? What you posted doesn't even resemble the truth taught as Calvinism. Hang around and read wihout interjecting nonsense and learn what Calvinism actually is about.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

What mlqurgw said. AdoptedSon, I think you'll find, if you stick around, that Calvinists are not concerned with the question, "am I elect?" This is because it is not an appropriate question. We, like any other Christian, think the question we ought to be concerned with is, "do I believe?" Election is how we explain why some believe and others do not. We do not look to it to determine whether we are Christians.

 

[Antman_05]

IF he wanted me to be a Christian he would come and tell me audibly that he did, this is true because no one can come to God unless the Holy Spirit draws them to him.

Interesting view point you think that all Christians have heard from God, in an audibly way, that has little if anything to do with the Drawing of the Holy Spirit. (Though as we know due to The Aposlte Paul it can happen)
No where in scrpiture does it say we need to audibly hear God to be saved indeed reformed theologen has ever said that, just people who don't understand reformed theology so it seems.

 

[AdoptedSon]

Been readin' a lot of your posts and Seein's how none of the folks who follow John Calvins teachings ever have really 'splained just 'xactly how 'tis y'all do become the elect, I jest figgered that was how it had to be.

Don't get upset and mad at at the unlearned and ignorant (ME) I jest and thought hmmm can I ever get this stuff, probably not!

Don't matter to me anyway, I know my own chances are slim, and probably none since as I understand your doctrine God has full control, and we have nothing to say in it at all, God's going to pick out who he wants.

 

[Iosias]

God loves, and saves for eternal life who he will, and he despises, hates, and condemns those he he wills to reject.

I am very glad that you figured it out

 

[Iosias]

Romans 9:15-23 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,"

Ephesians 1:4-7 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"

Psalm 65:4 "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."

1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

2 Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

 

[heymikey80]

Don't matter to me anyway, I know my own chances are slim, and probably none since as I understand your doctrine God has full control, and we have nothing to say in it at all, God's going to pick out who he wants.

Well, if God gave you control, do you think you'd do better than God?

Been readin' a lot of your posts and Seein's how none of the folks who follow John Calvins teachings ever have really 'splained just 'xactly how 'tis y'all do become the elect, I jest figgered that was how it had to be.

God chooses. He has His reasons. The effect on us is dramatic, but what we do doesn't cause Him to sit up & beg us to be part of His family.

Reality doesn't work that way. God's bigger'n us.

Don't get upset and mad at at the unlearned and ignorant (ME) I jest and thought hmmm can I ever get this stuff, probably not!

Hm -- now, who came in speaking words without knowledge? Are you upset when people speak lies about you? Then expect upset when you speak lies about others.

Frankly, I'm not upset. It's just very tiring to hear someone say the same old line that's we've been denying for 400 years.

 

[bradfordl]

God's going to pick out who he wants.

Correction. God PICKED out those He wanted before it all began. You don't seem to be able to get your mind around that. Maybe it's because you can't get your mind around the fact that God is not anything like you, and does not exist in anything like the paradigm that you do. How amazing it is, then, that He came into your paradigm to redeem for Himself a people, and at so great a cost to Himself. Now that is the real amazing love.

 

[AdoptedSon]

Correction. God PICKED out those He wanted before it all began. You don't seem to be able to get your mind around that. Maybe it's because you can't get your mind around the fact that God is not anything like you, and does not exist in anything like the paradigm that you do. How amazing it is, then, that He came into your paradigm to redeem for Himself a people, and at so great a cost to Himself. Now that is the real amazing love.

If this is correct, and I ain't saying it ain't, alright, HOW do YOU know for sure YOU are one of those God did choose (Over and above all other people) before it all began?

That's the problem I have with it, can't seem to fit in who is, and who ain't LOVED by God, or who Jesus really died for when he was killed and all that.

If I could get my MIND as you put it around what really si truth and what ain't maybe I could allow my HEART to accept your doctrine.

After all ain't it HEART over Mind when it comes to a realationship with God, or am I correct in the asumption that I have no control?

IF I have no control, then I do NOT accept Christ, he accepts me, and if that is true, then How and when does this occur, and how do I have the assurance he has, or hasn't.

Let's get real here alright, the elect know they are saved, how do you know?

 

[AdoptedSon]

Well, if God gave you control, do you think you'd do better than God?

God chooses. He has His reasons. The effect on us is dramatic, but what we do doesn't cause Him to sit up & beg us to be part of His family.

Reality doesn't work that way. God's bigger'n us.
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Hm -- now, who came in speaking words without knowledge? Are you upset when people speak lies about you? Then expect upset when you speak lies about others.

Frankly, I'm not upset. It's just very tiring to hear someone say the same old line that's we've been denying for 400 years.

Don't see where I spoke any lies about you or anyone else, just asked some legitimate questions, sorry if I did, and I am very sorry if I upset you.

BUT I do think I have a right to have the questions answered, after all aren't you required by God to make full proof of your doctrinal position using sound Biblical evidence to back it up?

Consider this, what if someone comes to your forums who is unsaved, and that person is seriously considering becoming a Christian, how would you respond to their questions, no matter how harsh, or upsetting they might seem to be to you?

Your words, written, or spoken, say a lot about who you represent as a Christian, and written words can say a lot more than spoken words do.

People can read love, and hate in the comments posted on 'Christian' forums very clearly, think about that next time you reply to a persons request for an answer to questions that are very important to them, that person spending eternity in heaven or hell could very well depend on how you act toward them...

 

[AdoptedSon]

Your comments are highly offensive and they do not reflect an acceptable example of Jesus Christ.




edited to remove quotation of deleted post
edb19 moderator

 

[Antman_05]

Your comments are highly offensive and they do not reflect an acceptable example of Jesus Christ.

God opposes the Proud but give grace to the humble.
James 4:6 ESV But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
1 Peter 5:5 ESV Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

It seems like your pride thinks that your higher than God, by frist condeming yourself, before the day of jugdement, second you claim to be a Christian which couldn't be ture if your not elect. so i think the comments that were made were very Christlike.

 

[Beoga]

Your comments are highly offensive and they do not reflect an acceptable example of Jesus Christ.

Thankyou PentecostalEvangelist. Please demonstrate from scripture how this is so.

 

[mlqurgw]

Let's get real here alright, the elect know they are saved, how do you know

Here is Paul's answer:

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
1Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

If this is correct, and I ain't saying it ain't, alright, HOW do YOU know for sure YOU are one of those God did choose (Over and above all other people) before it all began?

That's the problem I have with it, can't seem to fit in who is, and who ain't LOVED by God, or who Jesus really died for when he was killed and all that.

If I could get my MIND as you put it around what really si truth and what ain't maybe I could allow my HEART to accept your doctrine.

After all ain't it HEART over Mind when it comes to a realationship with God, or am I correct in the asumption that I have no control?

IF I have no control, then I do NOT accept Christ, he accepts me, and if that is true, then How and when does this occur, and how do I have the assurance he has, or hasn't.

Let's get real here alright, the elect know they are saved, how do you know?

You're going to want to re-read my post on this thread. Election is not our concern. Quite simply, the question is whether you have faith. If you do, then all that is promised in the gospel is true for you. We do not look to election to determine that we are Christians, but look back upon it through Christ. The Second Helvetic Confession, a 16th-century statement of Reformed belief, dedicates a good deal of space to making this clear in its chapter on predestination:

Whether Few Are Elect. And when the Lord was asked whether there were few that should be saved, he does not answer and tell them that few or many should be saved or damned, but rather he exhorts every man to "strive to enter by the narrow door" (Luke 13:24): as if he should say, It is not for you curiously to inquire about these matters, but rather to endeavor that you may enter into heaven by the straight way.

What in This Matter Is To Be Condemned. Therefore we do not approve of the impious speeches of some who say, "Few are chosen, and since I do not know whether I am among the number of the few, I will enjoy myself." Others say, "If I am predestinated and elected by God, nothing can hinder me from salvation, which is already certainly appointed for me, no matter what I do. But if I am in the number of the reprobate, no faith or repentance will help me, since the decree of God cannot be changed. Therefore all doctrines and admonitions are useless." Now the saying of the apostle contradicts these men: "The Lord's servant must be ready to teach, instructing those who oppose him, so that if God should grant that they repent to know the truth, they may recover from the snare of the devil, after being held captive by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:23 ff.).

Admonitions Are Not in Vain Because Salvation Proceeds from Election. Augustine also shows that both the grace of free election and predestination, and also salutary admonitions and doctrines, are to be preached (Lib. de Dono Perseverantiae, cap. 14 ff.).

Whether We Are Elected. We therefore find fault with those who outside of Christ ask whether they are elected. And what has God decreed concerning them before all eternity? For the preaching of the Gospel is to be heard, and it is to be believed; and it is to be held as beyond doubt that if you believe and are in Christ, you are elected. For the Father has revealed unto us in Christ the eternal purpose of his predestination, as I have just now shown from the apostle in 2 Tim. 1:9-10. This is therefore above all to be taught and considered, what great love of the Father toward us is revealed to us in Christ. We must hear what the Lord himself daily preaches to us in the Gospel, how he calls and says: "Come to me all who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Also, "It is not the will of my Father that one of these little ones should perish" (Matt. 18:14).
Let Christ, therefore be the looking glass, in whom we may contemplate our predestination. We shall have a sufficiently clear and sure testimony that we are inscribed in the Book of Life if we have fellowship with Christ, and he is ours and we are his in true faith.

Temptation in Regard to Predestination. In the temptation in regard to predesination, than which there is scarcely any other more dangerous, we are confronted by the fact that God's promises apply to all the faithful, for he says: "Ask, and everyone who seeks, shall receive" (Luke 11:9 f.). This finally we pray, with the whole Church of God, "Our Father who art in heaven" (Matt. 6:9), both because by baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ, and we are often fed in his Church with his flesh and blood unto life eternal. Thereby, being strengthened, we are commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, according to the precept of Paul."

 

[AdoptedSon]

Thankyou PentecostalEvangelist. Please demonstrate from scripture how this is so.

Referring to my questions as being stupid is NOT Christ-like.

I have always only asked for Biblical evidence from anyone to support your doctrine, and 99.9% of the time I receive insults from people like you, sorry if I offended you, now, or in the past, IF you are a Christian act like one, then you will put forth an acceptable example of Jesus!!

 

[AdoptedSon]

You're going to want to re-read my post on this thread. Election is not our concern. Quite simply, the question is whether you have faith. If you do, then all that is promised in the gospel is true for you. We do not look to election to determine that we are Christians, but look back upon it through Christ. The Second Helvetic Confession, a 16th-century statement of Reformed belief, dedicates a good deal of space to making this clear in its chapter on predestination:

Whether Few Are Elect. And when the Lord was asked whether there were few that should be saved, he does not answer and tell them that few or many should be saved or damned, but rather he exhorts every man to "strive to enter by the narrow door" (Luke 13:24): as if he should say, It is not for you curiously to inquire about these matters, but rather to endeavor that you may enter into heaven by the straight way.

What in This Matter Is To Be Condemned. Therefore we do not approve of the impious speeches of some who say, "Few are chosen, and since I do not know whether I am among the number of the few, I will enjoy myself." Others say, "If I am predestinated and elected by God, nothing can hinder me from salvation, which is already certainly appointed for me, no matter what I do. But if I am in the number of the reprobate, no faith or repentance will help me, since the decree of God cannot be changed. Therefore all doctrines and admonitions are useless." Now the saying of the apostle contradicts these men: "The Lord's servant must be ready to teach, instructing those who oppose him, so that if God should grant that they repent to know the truth, they may recover from the snare of the devil, after being held captive by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:23 ff.).

Admonitions Are Not in Vain Because Salvation Proceeds from Election. Augustine also shows that both the grace of free election and predestination, and also salutary admonitions and doctrines, are to be preached (Lib. de Dono Perseverantiae, cap. 14 ff.).

Whether We Are Elected. We therefore find fault with those who outside of Christ ask whether they are elected. And what has God decreed concerning them before all eternity? For the preaching of the Gospel is to be heard, and it is to be believed; and it is to be held as beyond doubt that if you believe and are in Christ, you are elected. For the Father has revealed unto us in Christ the eternal purpose of his predestination, as I have just now shown from the apostle in 2 Tim. 1:9-10. This is therefore above all to be taught and considered, what great love of the Father toward us is revealed to us in Christ. We must hear what the Lord himself daily preaches to us in the Gospel, how he calls and says: "Come to me all who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Also, "It is not the will of my Father that one of these little ones should perish" (Matt. 18:14).
Let Christ, therefore be the looking glass, in whom we may contemplate our predestination. We shall have a sufficiently clear and sure testimony that we are inscribed in the Book of Life if we have fellowship with Christ, and he is ours and we are his in true faith.

Temptation in Regard to Predestination. In the temptation in regard to predesination, than which there is scarcely any other more dangerous, we are confronted by the fact that God's promises apply to all the faithful, for he says: "Ask, and everyone who seeks, shall receive" (Luke 11:9 f.). This finally we pray, with the whole Church of God, "Our Father who art in heaven" (Matt. 6:9), both because by baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ, and we are often fed in his Church with his flesh and blood unto life eternal. Thereby, being strengthened, we are commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, according to the precept of Paul."

So in a nutshell are you telling me that I can choose to accept Jesus as my savior?