I was looking for some books online.. and when I came across a book that was called "Lost Scriptures"... Has anyone read any of these?...
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Lost Scriptures?????
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There's a lot of alleged lost scriptures such as the gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of the Cross. Only the most liberal of theologians (such as the Jesus Seminar) gives them any credibility. Most them are firmly rooted in a first century heresy called gnosticism and hold to many completely unorthodox (heretical really) beliefs.
I once read a very efficient treatment on the choosing of the books that comprise the canon of scripture. It gave two options:
1) Scripture is divinely inspired, in which case God saw to it that the books he wanted were included in the canon of scripture.
2) Scripture is of human rather then divine origin and the canon of scripture is comprised of that which the early church fathers considered to be indicative of their beleifs.
Neither alternative leaves any room for "Lost Scriptures"
God bless!
I once read a very efficient treatment on the choosing of the books that comprise the canon of scripture. It gave two options:
1) Scripture is divinely inspired, in which case God saw to it that the books he wanted were included in the canon of scripture.
2) Scripture is of human rather then divine origin and the canon of scripture is comprised of that which the early church fathers considered to be indicative of their beleifs.
Neither alternative leaves any room for "Lost Scriptures"
God bless!
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You also shouldn't be surprised that there are writings or documents referenced in the Old Testament that are not included in the Bible.
We also have the 14 books of the Apocrypha used (though given less authority) in (as I recall) Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches.
To add on what Adam mentioned, many of the non-canonical gospels are almost universally considered to be very late, and clearly betray the motives of their creators in doctrines that are introduced or changed.
We also have the 14 books of the Apocrypha used (though given less authority) in (as I recall) Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches.
To add on what Adam mentioned, many of the non-canonical gospels are almost universally considered to be very late, and clearly betray the motives of their creators in doctrines that are introduced or changed.
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In 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Egypt a collection of early writings was discovered. These were dated to the 3rd and 4th centuries AD and are in the Coptic language. These are thought to be translations of documents written Greek in the first two centuries AD.
Included in the collection are the only complete version of the Gospel of Thomas and many other texts banned by the early church leaders as heretical.
The texts seem to be mostly gnostic in belief.
A Google search for Nag Hammadi will turn up a wealth of information.
According to a recent Time Magazine article there is a growing movement in America to accept some of these writings. These writings were banned for a good reason. Gnosticism is a very dangerous belief system which does not rely on Christ alone.
From carm.org
Gnosticism traces its roots back just after the beginning of the Christian Church. Some researchers state that evidence of its existence even predates Christianity. Whichever the case, the error of gnosticism had affected the culture and church of the time and possibly even a earned a mention in 1 John 4.
The word "gnosticism" comes from the Greek word "gnosis" which means "knowledge." There were many groups that were Gnostic and it isn't possible to easily describe the nuances of each variant of Gnostic doctrines. However, generally speaking, Gnosticism taught that salvation is achieved through special knowledge (gnosis). This knowledge usually dealt with the individual's relationship to the transcendent Being.
A more detailed Gnostic theology is as follows. The unknowable God was far too pure and perfect to have anything to do with the material universe which was considered evil. Therefore, God generated lesser divinities, or emenations. One of these emanations, Wisdom desired to know the unknowable God. Out of this erring desire the demiurge an evil god was formed and it was this evil god that created the universe. He along with archons kept the mortals in bondage in material matter and tried to prevent the pure spirit souls from ascending back to god after the death of the physical bodies. Since, according to the Gnostics, matter is evil, deliverance from material form was attainable only through special knowledge revealed by special Gnostic teachers. Christ was the divine redeemer who descended from the spiritual realm to reveal the knowledge necessary for this redemption. In conclusion, Gnosticism is dualistic. That is, it teaches there is a good and evil, spirit and matter, light and dark, etc. dualism in the universe.
What we know about Gnosticism is gained from the writings of Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Origen, and some later manuscripts discovered in the eighteenth century such as the "Codex Askew, Codex Bruce, the Berlin Gnostic Codes and, most recently, the Nag Hammadi collection."1 Nag Hammadi is a town in Upper Egypt near ancient Chenoboskion and 13 codices discovered were discovered about 1945.
The danger of gnosticism is easily apparent. It denies the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind and we would still be lost in our sins.
There is debate whether or not this is a Christian heresy or simply an independent development. The evidence seems to point to the later. Nevertheless, the Gnostics laid claim to Jesus as a great teacher of theirs and as such requires some attention. It is possible that 1 John was written against some of the errors that Gnosticism promoted.
Included in the collection are the only complete version of the Gospel of Thomas and many other texts banned by the early church leaders as heretical.
The texts seem to be mostly gnostic in belief.
A Google search for Nag Hammadi will turn up a wealth of information.
According to a recent Time Magazine article there is a growing movement in America to accept some of these writings. These writings were banned for a good reason. Gnosticism is a very dangerous belief system which does not rely on Christ alone.
From carm.org
Gnosticism
Gnosticism traces its roots back just after the beginning of the Christian Church. Some researchers state that evidence of its existence even predates Christianity. Whichever the case, the error of gnosticism had affected the culture and church of the time and possibly even a earned a mention in 1 John 4.
The word "gnosticism" comes from the Greek word "gnosis" which means "knowledge." There were many groups that were Gnostic and it isn't possible to easily describe the nuances of each variant of Gnostic doctrines. However, generally speaking, Gnosticism taught that salvation is achieved through special knowledge (gnosis). This knowledge usually dealt with the individual's relationship to the transcendent Being.
A more detailed Gnostic theology is as follows. The unknowable God was far too pure and perfect to have anything to do with the material universe which was considered evil. Therefore, God generated lesser divinities, or emenations. One of these emanations, Wisdom desired to know the unknowable God. Out of this erring desire the demiurge an evil god was formed and it was this evil god that created the universe. He along with archons kept the mortals in bondage in material matter and tried to prevent the pure spirit souls from ascending back to god after the death of the physical bodies. Since, according to the Gnostics, matter is evil, deliverance from material form was attainable only through special knowledge revealed by special Gnostic teachers. Christ was the divine redeemer who descended from the spiritual realm to reveal the knowledge necessary for this redemption. In conclusion, Gnosticism is dualistic. That is, it teaches there is a good and evil, spirit and matter, light and dark, etc. dualism in the universe.
What we know about Gnosticism is gained from the writings of Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Origen, and some later manuscripts discovered in the eighteenth century such as the "Codex Askew, Codex Bruce, the Berlin Gnostic Codes and, most recently, the Nag Hammadi collection."1 Nag Hammadi is a town in Upper Egypt near ancient Chenoboskion and 13 codices discovered were discovered about 1945.
The danger of gnosticism is easily apparent. It denies the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind and we would still be lost in our sins.
There is debate whether or not this is a Christian heresy or simply an independent development. The evidence seems to point to the later. Nevertheless, the Gnostics laid claim to Jesus as a great teacher of theirs and as such requires some attention. It is possible that 1 John was written against some of the errors that Gnosticism promoted.
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They actually were never lost. The early Church Fathers were very familiar with them, and considered them heretical, because they were from the Gnostic movement, as was posted previously. I own an excellent book dealing with these lost gospels and the true Jesus, which I highly recommend. It is entitled Hidden Gospels: How the Search of Jesus Lost Its Way written by Philip Jenkins.
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artybloke
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AdamK27 said:
But there is a third option. Scripture is both divine and human: it is inspired by God, much the way that all great religious literature is inspired. People have an experience of the divine and then write it down in their own words, the nearest they can get to it. In that case, "all Scripture" has a much wider meaning.
And the thing I'd like to ask is: has anybody here actually read these Gospels (eg Thomas, Philip, Mary) rather than read about them? After all, history tends to get written by the winners; the Nag Hammadi Christians lost out to the followers of Athanasius and Eusebius, and maybe the picture the church fathers paint of these "heretics" isn't accurate when you actually read their writings with an open mind.
These are just a few comments to get you thinking. As I haven't the time to read them myself, I have no idea whether the apocryphal Gospels are heretical or not. But I see no reason why I should automatically take the word of Athanasius as being Gospel, any more than you should unthinkingly take the word of the Gospel of Thomas.
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hello , iam new to this forum , but have had difficulty with people who are trying to undermind the church with these gospels , i need more ammo, or at least an understanding of a place to get off this debate. i know how damaging it sounds to non-christians , and what their motives are . i know in theses troubled times the church and jesus christ are my only refuge , but the validity of this find in egypt
gives fuel to the fire .... has the church published anything about this?
sorry for the long winded convuluted question
gives fuel to the fire .... has the church published anything about this?
sorry for the long winded convuluted question
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ps139
Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!
Luna, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the canon is closed. The "lost gospels" may be interesting reading but they are not the Word of God. They are LOST for a reason - they were thrown out. When the Bible was being put together in the 4th century, some wanted to include these false gospels, but at the Councils of Carthage and Rome the Holy Spirit worked through the Church to give us only inspired books in the Bible.lunaone said:
I have read parts of one of them (might have been Thomas) and I was disgusted by it. I will not mention why I was disgusted, but all I will say is that before anyone reads the false gospels, you should have a firm foundation in the true gopels, so you will recognize heresy when it rears its ugly head. Remember, these false gospels were written to spread heresy, to confuse Christians, to spread lies about Christ. IF you decide to read them, remember the purpose for which they were written: to confuse YOU. And be careful.
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i know , i was really physically effected for a day or so, but i prayed for some clear thinking ...and thankfully was able to during holy week to put these thoughts out of my head ...as an aside ....wow what a site , very informative and nice to be here 
the holy spirit allows for esoteric experiences , if your lucky
the holy spirit allows for esoteric experiences , if your lucky
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de Unamuno
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I have a question to any Protestants who care to answer. I don't mean to start the same old fight here, so please be gracious and non-defensive with your answers. I'm truly curious.
How were books or letters classified as "heretical" in the early church, if there were no governing body to make that determination?
How were books or letters classified as "heretical" in the early church, if there were no governing body to make that determination?
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de Unamuno
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Lotar said:Who says there wasn't?
Ok, perhaps I am assuming too much here. So what was this governing body? How did it function? What was its nature? It's source of authority, and such?
For those who believe there was no governing body, feel free to answer my original question.
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Greetings,
Possibly from a liberal interpretation of. . .
Read some of the material, yes. You can buy the book: "The Nag Hammadi Library" for around twenty dollars, or save the funds for something more important by going here and read the English translations of them for yourself.
The long and the short of it: This was a find of ancient texts similar in nature to that of the Dead Sea Scrolls, in so far as they were found buried in jars. The main difference here, if memory serves, is that rather than scrolls these were leather bound codices. I think a number may have been burned before someone discovered them, or realized that money could be made from antiquities dealers; memory is fuzzy on that point.
As to the texts themselves they, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, IMO, look to have been translated by scholars with some preconceptions about what these texts provenance was supposed to be before they knew what the texts actually said, probably based solely on the language of the documents(?). For instance many didn't have titles so they were given titles like: "Hypostasis of the Archons" (or Reality of the Rulers), "On the Origin of the World", "The Exegesis of the Soul", &tc.
Personally I would classify Hypostasis as an exegetical work expounding upon Genesis 1-6 with a bit of reference to 1 Enoch (chapter 8 mostly) and Jubiliees (5:6,10) tacked on. At least that's what my old notes in the margins of my book tell me.
Doesn't look like I did any research into the other texts mentioned, save for one notation cross referencing a portion of "On the Origin of the World" with chapter and verse from 1 Enoch. :shrug:
As to the cotents of these. . . I'd say, had they not been "lost", that they might have had an more direct impact and influence upon the writers of medieval angelologies than did whatever sources they used.
Kind Regards,
Kester Pelagius
Bro. Gabriel said:
Possibly from a liberal interpretation of. . .
artybloke said:
Read some of the material, yes. You can buy the book: "The Nag Hammadi Library" for around twenty dollars, or save the funds for something more important by going here and read the English translations of them for yourself.
The long and the short of it: This was a find of ancient texts similar in nature to that of the Dead Sea Scrolls, in so far as they were found buried in jars. The main difference here, if memory serves, is that rather than scrolls these were leather bound codices. I think a number may have been burned before someone discovered them, or realized that money could be made from antiquities dealers; memory is fuzzy on that point.
As to the texts themselves they, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, IMO, look to have been translated by scholars with some preconceptions about what these texts provenance was supposed to be before they knew what the texts actually said, probably based solely on the language of the documents(?). For instance many didn't have titles so they were given titles like: "Hypostasis of the Archons" (or Reality of the Rulers), "On the Origin of the World", "The Exegesis of the Soul", &tc.
Personally I would classify Hypostasis as an exegetical work expounding upon Genesis 1-6 with a bit of reference to 1 Enoch (chapter 8 mostly) and Jubiliees (5:6,10) tacked on. At least that's what my old notes in the margins of my book tell me.
Doesn't look like I did any research into the other texts mentioned, save for one notation cross referencing a portion of "On the Origin of the World" with chapter and verse from 1 Enoch. :shrug:
As to the cotents of these. . . I'd say, had they not been "lost", that they might have had an more direct impact and influence upon the writers of medieval angelologies than did whatever sources they used.
Kind Regards,
Kester Pelagius
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T
Thecla
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I would recommend actually learning about Gnostic and apocryphal work before passing judgment on it. I'd say that most people are concerned by them because they don't understand where these "lost gospels" fit into the history of Christianity and of Greco-Roman religion.
If you want to learn about them from a credible source, I'd recommend reading Elaine Pagels' "The Gnostic Gospels." She's well-informed and easy to read, and you'll learn a lot about Christian history. If you want to read the texts themselves, pick up a copy of the Nag Hammadi Library. Actually, you can get it online at gnosis.org.
Good luck!
Thecla
If you want to learn about them from a credible source, I'd recommend reading Elaine Pagels' "The Gnostic Gospels." She's well-informed and easy to read, and you'll learn a lot about Christian history. If you want to read the texts themselves, pick up a copy of the Nag Hammadi Library. Actually, you can get it online at gnosis.org.
Good luck!
Thecla
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artybloke said:
It could be that God inspired the scripture, but man has suppressed or lost part of them, and the availability of those additional scriptures is God's way of making sure that everybody has them available and is accountable for following them.
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and how they didnt want it to get out because it would destroy the church and whatnot.There are lost biblical books in the Old Testament and quotes from books outside the canon in the New Testament.
OLD TESTAMENT
The Book of Wars - (Numbers 21:14) - That is why the Book of Wars of the Lord says ..........
The Book of Jashar (Upright) -( Joshua 10:13) - So the sun stood still, till the nation avenged itself on the enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The Book of Jashar - (2 Samuel 1:18) - .......... and ordered that the men of Judah be taught his lament of the bow (it is written in the Book of Jashar).
-----------------------------------
NEW TESTAMENT (references to quotes in books found outside the canon)
Aratus - (Acts 17:28) - As some of your own poets have said, We are his offspring.
Menander - (I Corinthians 15:33) - Do not be misled: Bad company corrupts good character.
The Assumption of Moses - (Jude 9) - But even the archangel when he was disputed with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you!
1Enoch - (Jude 14-15) - Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: See, the Lord is coming with thousand upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone , and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
OLD TESTAMENT
The Book of Wars - (Numbers 21:14) - That is why the Book of Wars of the Lord says ..........
The Book of Jashar (Upright) -( Joshua 10:13) - So the sun stood still, till the nation avenged itself on the enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The Book of Jashar - (2 Samuel 1:18) - .......... and ordered that the men of Judah be taught his lament of the bow (it is written in the Book of Jashar).
-----------------------------------
NEW TESTAMENT (references to quotes in books found outside the canon)
Aratus - (Acts 17:28) - As some of your own poets have said, We are his offspring.
Menander - (I Corinthians 15:33) - Do not be misled: Bad company corrupts good character.
The Assumption of Moses - (Jude 9) - But even the archangel when he was disputed with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you!
1Enoch - (Jude 14-15) - Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: See, the Lord is coming with thousand upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone , and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
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