Losing Salvation?

[Oye11]

One can never hide behind a 'deletion'. It is a heart issue and where/who has its allegiance, God alone sees.

True, but the willingness to purge the Black Sabbath can be seen as evidence of a good heart. I`ll give the benefit of the doubt and never bring it up again. That`s me....

 

[Ormly]

And it will be me as well. .. which is what I should have included in my last.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Amen to all of these posts.
OSAS is a lie.

Throughout the New Testament we are giving warnings about losing faith. I believe once saved always saved denies that we are saved by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus because if we were to fall from faith and, hypothetically, worship Satan, then we no longer have faith in Christ, thereby ,the grace in which we receive through faith in Christ ,is cut off ,and we lose the free gift of Salvation.

Honestly, whats the point of the devil if once we are saved, we are always saved. He is actively trying to pull people from faith into a state of apostasy. OSAS is a false doctrine and is NOT biblical by any stretch of the imagination.

One of Many:
Hebrews 6:4-6 RSV
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Well first of all we never ever accepted Jesus into our hearts. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith itself receives the grace of God and with it the free gift of salvation. Even the faith that we do have it is a gift from God, created by the Holy Spirit. Those who say that we must accept Jesus or make a commitment to Jesus or those who say that "Jesus did his part, now do your part" are turning salvation into a work.

John 15:16 NASB
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Secondly, the straw man argument that those who fall away were never truly saved has no biblical backup and is null and void in my opinion. It seems to be the ONLY defense that people seem to bring up.

1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Forgive me...

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Forgive me...

1Cr 9:24-27 ¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Forgive me...

2Pe 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Forgive me...

Speaking of Romans, what about this verse?

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Is it written to Christians? 8-13

 

[IamRedeemed]

It means exactly that no one can snatch you from His hand, but that doesn't mean you cannot leave. You are free to leave, free to choose to listen to the doctrines of men, and slowly reject the Words of Life and end up lukewarm and turn cold and no longer serve Him anymore and fall into apostasy and if you die in that state of apostasy, you will perish the second death.

Salvation for mankind itself is not perishable, the inheritance we look forward to, but have not
actually received yet. It is reserved for those who endure and finish the race.
But our faith can perish, if we are not sober and vigilant to stay attached to the vine.
Do not be deceived. OSAS is the same lie satan told Eve in the garden. It is just repackaged.

This is why Paul said we press on toward the mark of the prize. We run the race as one
who intends to win it. The race is not for the swift and the strong, but for those who
endure until when? Until the end. The end being, until their last breath.

God bless

John 10:27-28

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

1 Peter 1:3-5

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

So, when Jesus said NO ONE could snatch his sheep from his hand, what then did he mean? He didn't say, "No one except the devil and his temptations," he said NO ONE.

And 1st Peter clearly states that we are saved through FAITH, not works. Therefore, we cannot earn our salvation through our deeds, it is a GIFT born of faith in Jesus Christ, one that will never perish, spoil, or fade. It doesn't say, "Born of faith so long as you never sin again" and it certainly doesn't say that our inheritence will never spoil, perish, or fade "unless you sin again."

 

[beloved57]

It means exactly that no one can snatch you from His hand, but that doesn't mean you cannot leave.

Jn 10

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

But he says they shall never perish , neither meaning in addtion to that staemnet not contingent upon , neither can no man [ including the person he is a man] snatch them out of my hand..

So if you believe Jesus , which apparently you dont, indicating you are not a converted believer, but just jesus word alone [ they shall never perish] should be enough, but you are a unregenerated person trying to humanly understand truth..

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Is it possible, in any way shape or form, to lose one's salvation once that person has accepted Christ?

In my opinion, the answer is no. If someone has TRULY accepted Christ, then their heart will drive them toward good works and a desire to rid their lives of their sinful nature. But once we accept the sacrifice that Jesus made, our sins are forgiven, both past and future, and we are children of the Lord. The Holy Spirit will drive us to better ourselves, to fight the sin in our lives, and to reach out to others in His loving image rather than our old sinful selves.

I've heard it said that if you are saved and continue to sin, you will no longer be saved. To me, that's absolute rubbish. No one is perfect. No one, aside from Jesus, as ever been perfect, and no one else will ever be perfect. We are all sinners, saved or not. If it were true that sins could cause us to lose salvation, then salvation wouldn't exist.

HOWEVER, there is a distinction I must make.

Salvation through Christ is not a license to sin. We cannot say, "Well, I can do whatever I want, because God has forgiven me." That kind of mindset indicates that the person does not truly respect or understand what Christ did for us, and therefore did not truly accept Christ's guidance into their lives in the first place. Those people, I believe, were never saved, because they didn't accept every aspect of a relationship with Christ, they tried to get away with taking only what they believed they needed to get into heaven.

Thoughts?

Heb 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
NASU


Heb 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment andTHE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
NASU


I put these out there for the conversation . . .

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

off topic , as usual and I didn't promote the band or that song , what I did was give a list of some interesting songs (not the one you conveniently quote ) your just a hypocrite , and the only way you see fit to attack my beliefs is by this underhanded method .

shall I delete my homepage seeing as it causes you trouble ?

oh you will say it;'s no problem to you , should I leave it then ?

if it is causing you a problem I will delete the entire page , but after I do don't be the hypocrite and say it didn't matter that much to you!

You know what though Cy . . . the philosophy that penned that song permeates ALL the songs.

They are songs that are at best worldy and, at worst, demonic . . . either way . . . the world is at emnity with God and those who love the world will perish with it . . . and we need not say how antichristian the demonic are.

No offense meant . . .

 

[IamRedeemed]

Peter did not deny Christ. He denied knowing who Jesus was. He did not know who
THAT man was. There is a big difference that many fail to see. I was one of those many
until the Holy Spirit opened my eyes. Let me explain. You have to understand that the
Disciples did not understand just as the Jews who rejected Christ did not understand that
when Messiah was to come, He would not be coming as KING first.

He was coming as the sacrificial Lamb of God first. Peter witnessed many many miracles of
Jesus during His ministry. He saw Him cause the blind to see, the lame to walk, the deaf to
hear and saw Him raise the dead. So, for Jesus to be led to slaughter like a helpless lamb,
without doing a thing to help Himself, Peter did not know who THAT man was! That was not the Jesus
He thought He knew! Peter was mind boggled, scared, a ton of things. His faith was shaken.

But when the rooster crowed, Peter remembered what Jesus said, and he repented.
And when Mary Magdalene and the other women came and told him and the others
that the tomb was empty, Peter was the first one on the scene! Bless God!

And He paid for his faith in Christ with a crucifixion himself. He was crucified
for his faith in Jesus Christ. He was crucified upside down in fact, not wanting to
be crucified in the same manner as our Lord, as he said he was not worthy, he requested
they do it to him upside down and they gave him that request.

God bless Peter!

I believe we cannot lose our salvation. If salvation was there to be lost, then we would all be in trouble. Just as ravendta brought up, think of Peter. He denied Christ three times, but did not lose his salvation. Salvation is being washed in the blood of Christ. Just as we cannot save ourselves, only Christ can, we cannot lose it. We have no control over it. Once we accept Christ as our Saviour and truly believe He died on the Cross and rose again for our sins, we are saved. Period. We are not perfect beings, although we should strive for perfection and knowing that we will never truly be perfect, we must rely on this salvation. Tell me, since we are imperfect and must have salvation through Christ's sacrifice, who could be in the Kingdom of Heaven if he/she could lose their salvation after the first sin they commit after recieving Christ as their salvation? No one can be saved and not commit a sin ever again. We are just not that way. Truly this is why we stand on the only rock that can never be washed away, the salvation of Christ the Lord. If salvation was such a thing that we could lose, we would be asking for salvation daily and would never truly have the peace in our heart knowing we are saved and if we die this very minute, we will spend eternity with God. What a scarey world we would live in, if this was the case. If every moment we were on the edge of hell and heaven. Salvation is eternal. Do you then think if someone kills someone that they are less than saved? Not in the least. Even killers can be christians, who are saved, but make major mistakes. If all sins are equal in the eyes of God...they are no different than you and me and will not lose their salvation any more than someone who is saved but lies. So, we can be in peace knowing Christ's salvation is a sealed deal.

 

[IamRedeemed]

This is what is meant by counseling the whole Word of God. We cannot pluck
Scriptures out that meet with our theology and try to use them to dismiss
multitudes of other Scripture that the one Scripture is attempted by user to dismiss.

What we have when we come to Christ is a promise. It is the blessed assurance
of the promise that we have.

We have not attained yet the fulfillment of that promise, but we know that
God does not change and we can depend on every Word that proceeds from
His mouth, so we know that His promise is good and that IF we endure until
the end, the promise is that we will be saved. We will be passed over from
the judgment of the second death unto eternal life.

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Jn 10

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

But he says they shall never perish , neither meaning in addtion to that staemnet not contingent upon , neither can no man [ including the person he is a man] snatch them out of my hand..

So if you believe Jesus , which apparently you dont, indicating you are not a converted believer, but just jesus word alone [ they shall never perish] should be enough, but you are a unregenerated person trying to humanly understand truth..

 

[beloved57]

It means exactly that no one can snatch you from His hand, but that doesn't mean you cannot leave. You are free to leave, free to choose to listen to the doctrines of men, and slowly reject the Words of Life and end up lukewarm and turn cold and no longer serve Him anymore and fall into apostasy and if you die in that state of apostasy, you will perish the second death.

Salvation for mankind itself is not perishable, the inheritance we look forward to, but have not
actually received yet. It is reserved for those who endure and finish the race.
But our faith can perish, if we are not sober and vigilant to stay attached to the vine.
Do not be deceived. OSAS is the same lie satan told Eve in the garden. It is just repackaged.

This is why Paul said we press on toward the mark of the prize. We run the race as one
who intends to win it. The race is not for the swift and the strong, but for those who
endure until when? Until the end. The end being, until their last breath.

God bless

Why dont you change your screen name to I might be redeemed if I hold on...lol..

 

[beloved57]

This is what is meant by counseling the whole Word of God. We cannot pluck
Scriptures out that meet with our theology and try to use them to dismiss
multitudes of other Scripture that the one Scripture is attempted by user to dismiss.

What we have when we come to Christ is a promise. It is the blessed assurance
of the promise that we have.

We have not attained yet the fulfillment of that promise, but we know that
God does not change and we can depend on every Word that proceeds from
His mouth, so we know that His promise is good and that IF we endure until
the end, the promise is that we will be saved. We will be passed over from
the judgment of the second death unto eternal life.

And I give them eternal life and they shall never perish!

 

[IamRedeemed]

And I give them eternal life and they shall never perish!

And He will give it to each and every one of us who endure 'til the end
and we shall never perish.

Please read again what I explained to you about counseling the WHOLE
Word of God vs plucking Scriptures out that meet our theology and trying to
use them to dismiss multitudes of other Scriptures.
I included what I explained before for you below:

This is what is meant by counseling the whole Word of God. We cannot pluck
Scriptures out that meet with our theology and try to use them to dismiss
multitudes of other Scripture that the one Scripture is attempted by user to dismiss.

What we have when we come to Christ is a promise. It is the blessed assurance
of the promise that we have.

We have not attained yet the fulfillment of that promise, but we know that
God does not change and we can depend on every Word that proceeds from
His mouth, so we know that His promise is good and that IF we endure until
the end, the promise is that we will be saved. We will be passed over from
the judgment of the second death unto eternal life.

 

[Uphill Battle]

thread closed at request of OP.