Lordship Salvation

[Religiot]

I assume you are referring to the preventing others from eating it, as the sin, here?




You haven't shown why you call one mortal and the other not. Is not the wages of sin death?

You tell me, can you earn wages incidentally?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sir, with respect, please, don't equivocate, otherwise the words will cease to have their meaning from the author.

A wage cannot be earned incidentally, period.

The wages of sin is death, period.

God is not mocked, if our labor is for what perishes, then death indeed is what we will reap.

But if our labor is for what cannot perish, then life indeed is what we do keep, for this gift of God is eternal life, through Christ, to all who obey Him. Amen.

Leaving alone the question of "incidental", this last is the reason for my intrusion into your narrative: God indeed is not mocked. Our hearts and minds, even after regeneration, are still motivated by corruption and the flesh. We do not know how to do good. God alone can do this in us.

If you think you sin out of the goodness of your heart, you are deceived.

 

[Saint Steven]

@MMXX

I'm not familiar with the term "Lordship Salvation", but while reading the posts a mental picture of salvation came to me.

We each are metaphorically a tree. Like a tree in winter that is dormant. We are planted in the life-giving soil of God's salvation. Many don't realize this yet and only understand that they are basically a dead, or dormant tree.

The trees that do realize this, respond to the sunshine and rain and begin to draw life from their roots. The eventual evidence is the fruit that is produced. What we call works, the evidence of salvation, not the cause.

In the meantime there are buds that appear and leaves, giving evidence of new life (salvation) and moving us toward producing fruit.

Therefore, we are a conduit between the saving nourishment of God (in whom we are rooted) and the fruit that is eventually produced. (giving evidence)

We cannot produce fruit in and of ourselves. Only as the life-giving nourishment of God flows through us can the fruit be produced through us. Our part is to allow the nourishment to make its way through us to the end of the branches where the fruit is produced. The buds and leaves are the beginning of that process. Proof that life has reached the place where fruit will be produced.

Salvation then, is the decision to draw on the resources of God in our lives. To put our trust in him and to draw life-giving power from him. As he fills us with his power we begin to show outward evidence of spiritual life. As we continually draw on him the works of righteousness will come as ripe fruit.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No, I don't impute my wrongdoing to God. If I do what is right, it is God doing it in me --the credit is not mine. Your reference (James 4:17 -- "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." -- is a reference to one way of sinning. It does not deal with 'free will' at all. Our righteousness is imputed, not earned. Call it what you like, the Gospel is a claim of Grace, not works. I do not deny works --they are indeed necessary, but even that is the Grace of God in me.

Consider the question of who deserves the praise for any goodness.

Exactly !

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think you completely misconstrued what he said. And therefore I expect you to misconstrue anything I say to you as well.

Thank you.

 

[Mark Quayle]

--You fail to distinguish between praise from men and praise from God. It is written, that those who obey the Lord will be praised by Him:

Of course they will be praised by Him! Read Song of Solomon! That isn't the point. We are given praise because of what we do and what we become AS A RESULT of what he does in us. We do not deserve the praise in the way he does; it is not our righteousness that is credited to us.

 

[Ceallaigh]

"Agree with me --it is the only possible way for you to be right."

I remind you where the chasm formed --you took me to say something that necessarily implies we are robots, which to you implies God is evil.

Nothing I have said goes there. You called me a heretic, not because I disagree with Scripture, but because what you took to be logical implications of what I say, disagrees with Scripture. I consider you a brother in Christ, believe it or not. I think some of the things you appear to believe are detestable, because of their logical implications, but I do not think you understand those implications of what you say. I do not call you a heretic for that.

I agree, however --it seems there is no point in continuing this.

I see it the same way. I've found that some are here to preach at their fellow servants of Christ, rather than reason together with them. I've seen some lay it on so thick I have to wonder if they're trolling.

 

[Ceallaigh]

None of us have perfectly obeyed the Lord. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

In regards to obeying the Lord, only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God, (Hebrews 11:6) so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[Religiot]

Wow! Most of my posts on this thread were deleted by staff!

The censorship here is incredible!

Now no one reading this can see how I answered several of you, proving by the scriptures how the philosophies discussed in this thread are false.

This all, because I used the word 'dung' when referring to the constant judgments being hurled at me by someone here in this post, which is the same word Paul uses to describe his former accomplishments outside of Christ:

"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved." --Philippians 3:8-21; 4:1

By sheer coincidence, that section of scripture, also serves to directly contradict the man-made philosophies discussed in this thread.

Now, no one can see what was being said to me, that prompted my response.

Nevertheless, unrighteous judgment will always be dung, period.

--There's nothing new, when you're talking the truth, there will always be someone out there to try and censor you!

PS: They did far worse to my Lord.

 

[Ceallaigh]

They deleted the posts that contained bickering and personal attacks against each other, because that's against the rules we agreed to when creating our accounts. Posting about and discussing moderator actions is also not permitted.

 

[Junia]

I'm struggling to understand this concept. Basically as I understand it so far, salvation entails commitment, obedience and perseverance. But it has been criticized as teaching works based / performance based salvation.

And it's hard for me to get how one can describe it in a plain concise way that excludes performance. One of it's best known teachers, has said point blank that if his salvation was up to him in any way, he would not have it. So it's basically at this time clear as mud to me.

I

Obedience and God works are proof of salvation

They follow salvation

 

[Ceallaigh]

A "disadvantage" of having been saved during childhood is that there's no before salvation self to look back upon, to make a before and after comparison. I think certain things elude me that registers with someone who lead a life without Christ into adulthood.

 

[Religiot]

They deleted the posts that contained bickering and personal attacks against each other, because that's against the rules we agreed to when creating our accounts. Posting about and discussing moderator actions is also not permitted.

Why are you still talking to me?