Lordship Salvation

[seekingpurity047]

Hey guys!

I was just wondering what you all thought about this doctrine, which has been set out by John MacArthur. If you don't know what it means, I'll explain. It is the doctrine where, in order to be saved, you must submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Personally, I do not agree with this doctrine. Why? Because this would imply that we must do something in order to be saved. But, surely, that is not the beauty of the doctrines of grace. Monergistic doctrine is basically that we will be saved by God alone. He's the one who's doing the work.

Basically, waht I'm saying is that, once we come to true saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably submit to the Lordship of Christ, and, therefore, we don't do anything, but it is God already working in us. Basically, it's the doctrine that sanctification inevitably and immediately follows justification.

So, what do you guys think?

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[mlqurgw]

We don't make Him Lord, God beat us to it. Whether we recognize and bow to Him now or later doen't change the fact of it. Anyone who claims to know Him and don't bow to Him doesn't really know Him. The believer come to Christ as the leper did, Lord if you will you can make me whole.

 

[Ethan_Fetch]

Randy,

I am not sure that's an accurate representation of what MacArthur means.

My understanding is that it means that you cannot have Jesus as Savior without also having Him as Lord.

This is in distinction to that "easy believism" of Ryrie and others which teaches that a Christian can have Jesus as Savior at one point in time and have Him as Lord some time later.

It just means that trusting in Christ for your salvation carries a commitment to Christ as Master which is unavoidable.

It is saying that Justification, while distinct from Sanctification, is necessarily the point at which Sanctification (as emblematic of obedience to Jesus) begins.

 

[Rick Otto]

but Randy, I agree with your concern re: works.

Ethan, what you say makes it sound acceptable, but do you know McArthurs orientation on predestination?

 

[Ethan_Fetch]

but Randy, I agree with your concern re: works.

Ethan, what you say makes it sound acceptable, but do you know McArthurs orientation on predestination?

My understanding is that MacArthur is a "silent five pointer"; i.e. he doesn't like being called a Calvinist, for whatever reason, but he is, for all intents and purposes, a Calvinist.

 

[Erinwilcox]

Hey guys!

I was just wondering what you all thought about this doctrine, which has been set out by John MacArthur. If you don't know what it means, I'll explain. It is the doctrine where, in order to be saved, you must submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Personally, I do not agree with this doctrine. Why? Because this would imply that we must do something in order to be saved. But, surely, that is not the beauty of the doctrines of grace. Monergistic doctrine is basically that we will be saved by God alone. He's the one who's doing the work.

Basically, waht I'm saying is that, once we come to true saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably submit to the Lordship of Christ, and, therefore, we don't do anything, but it is God already working in us. Basically, it's the doctrine that sanctification inevitably and immediately follows justification.

So, what do you guys think?

To the glory of God,

Randy

Randy, don't bite my head off, but we've discussed this before and I've told you that your views on what you think this doctrine teaches are incorrect. Basically, it is a counter to carnal Christianity. Instead of saying that anyone who prays the sinner's prayer is saved no matter what their heart is like, no matter what they do afterwards, even if they forget about God, Lordship Salvation says that anyone who is a true believer will have Christ as Lord of their life. True Christians have this. . .it is something that God gives to us. It isn't something that we can do, God grants it. It is NOT a new doctrine, it just has a new name.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Randy, don't bite my head off, but we've discussed this before and I've told you that your views on what you think this doctrine teaches are incorrect. Basically, it is a counter to carnal Christianity. Instead of saying that anyone who prays the sinner's prayer is saved no matter what their heart is like, no matter what they do afterwards, even if they forget about God, Lordship Salvation says that anyone who is a true believer will have Christ as Lord of their life. True Christians have this. . .it is something that God gives to us. It isn't something that we can do, God grants it. It is NOT a new doctrine, it just has a new name.

Then let us take the name out

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Hey folks,

Here are my two cents.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him (John 14:21)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. (John 14:24)
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (John 15:1)
I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. (John 15:1)
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10)
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. (John 15:16)

There is much more that could be added. We are saved by grace and it is the Lord working in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. If we do not will to do His good pleasure and if we do not produce good work by His working in us then we are not saved.

There is no works salvation, but there is no salvation that is not accompanied by good works and fruit.

Remember what John wrote in his epistle, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments" and "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:3-5)

Remember the fifth point of the Five Points of Calvinism is NOT "Once Saved Always Saved." The 5th point is PERSEVERENCE of the Saints. We are to persever in the Faith and that WILL produce good fruit and good works, and all these are of grace of the Spirit working in us.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[JimfromOhio]

I have the book and had it since it first came out. Over the years, I have learned what Lordship really means from John's perspective as well as others' perspective including Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "The Cost of Discipleship". Discipleship means to know and follow Christ is to be saved from all forms of idolatry. As a disciple, my Christian faith should be inward, not outward because the Bible teaches that faith is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Christ dwells in my heart, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith. My heart is the key to submission and obedience of discipleship. There is head knowledge and a heart knowledge, in knowing God (not just about Him) the heart must be involved with the head. God has sent us the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15). If I humble myself to God, the Holy Spirit will reveal Jesus in me and teach me with revelations of spiritual truth (Matthew 11:25-27). My faith of actions should be my relationship with My Lord, my daily life, my worship reflect my concept of God.

Matthew 22:36-38 (New International Version)
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment.

Luke 14:27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

 

[arunma]

Hey guys!

I was just wondering what you all thought about this doctrine, which has been set out by John MacArthur. If you don't know what it means, I'll explain. It is the doctrine where, in order to be saved, you must submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Personally, I do not agree with this doctrine. Why? Because this would imply that we must do something in order to be saved. But, surely, that is not the beauty of the doctrines of grace. Monergistic doctrine is basically that we will be saved by God alone. He's the one who's doing the work.

Basically, waht I'm saying is that, once we come to true saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably submit to the Lordship of Christ, and, therefore, we don't do anything, but it is God already working in us. Basically, it's the doctrine that sanctification inevitably and immediately follows justification.

So, what do you guys think?

To the glory of God,

Randy

Well, you bring up a good point, and technically you're absolutely right. But I guess at some point, the theology becomes too esoteric (not that it isn't still important). I think the important point to draw here is that we must submit to the Lordship of Christ.

 

[holeinone]

Hey guys!

I was just wondering what you all thought about this doctrine, which has been set out by John MacArthur. If you don't know what it means, I'll explain. It is the doctrine where, in order to be saved, you must submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Personally, I do not agree with this doctrine. Why? Because this would imply that we must do something in order to be saved. But, surely, that is not the beauty of the doctrines of grace. Monergistic doctrine is basically that we will be saved by God alone. He's the one who's doing the work.

Basically, waht I'm saying is that, once we come to true saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably submit to the Lordship of Christ, and, therefore, we don't do anything, but it is God already working in us. Basically, it's the doctrine that sanctification inevitably and immediately follows justification.

So, what do you guys think?

To the glory of God,

Randy

I agree with Mac on this.

The altar call has so distorted the effectual call and irresistible grace that salvation is nothing more than an affirmative agreement with the gospel.

But the scriptures indicate that regeneration changes the man , he is a new creation . Paul says we are no longer slaves to sin, he also tells us no man calls Jesus LORD but by the Holy Spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit that brings us to repentance, it is the Holy Spirit that leads us to all truth and convicts us of sin. Only the saved have the Holy Spirit in residence in us.We have a new heart.

If a mans life does not reflect a passion for the word of God, a passion for Christ and a desire to submit to the authority of God IMHO he is not saved. I do not care if he can quote every scripture or recite the wesminister from memory.


This is NOT human works that Mac is talking about, but the work of the Holy Spirit in the elect.. If you are not a new creation you are the old unregenerate one IMHO

 

[holeinone]

Randy,

I am not sure that's an accurate representation of what MacArthur means.

My understanding is that it means that you cannot have Jesus as Savior without also having Him as Lord.

This is in distinction to that "easy believism" of Ryrie and others which teaches that a Christian can have Jesus as Savior at one point in time and have Him as Lord some time later.

It just means that trusting in Christ for your salvation carries a commitment to Christ as Master which is unavoidable.

It is saying that Justification, while distinct from Sanctification, is necessarily the point at which Sanctification (as emblematic of obedience to Jesus) begins.

I believe you have the correct reading on Lordship teaching

 

[TheScottsMen]

I believe you have the correct reading on Lordship teaching

I would agree. The term "Lordship Salvation" was coined by those who had an axe to grind -- a better term is simply "Saving Faith", that’s what Lordship Salvation actually is.