Lords supper is symbolic

[Albion]

It is not imagination to have Scripture as our foundation.

I didn't say that it was. I simply noted that there is a definition for the word "grace."

 

[1stcenturylady]

got interrupted .

 

[1stcenturylady]

I didn't say that it was. I simply noted that there is a definition for the word "grace."

Yes, I know.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I could quote "Let your women keep silence in the churches" 1Co 14:34 and 1Ti 2:11,12, but seeing this setting is not the church setting teaching over men, of course I am open to anybody teaching me something good. I am interested in hearing your definition of grace.

Romans 3:
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

That is certainly unmerited favor, indeed. But Paul doesn't stop there.

31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

How? How do we "establish" the law if there is no law to break? By perfectly keeping it, of course. But isn't that works? Not if it is born from your new nature which is dead to sin/lawlessness!

The eternal moral laws of God to "love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself" are written permanently on our hearts of flesh. But Jesus didn't just give us his laws anew, but a way to keep them. This is where the grace of God changes its common meaning. That is the grace He has given us - part of Himself, for He is full of grace and truth.

So what is the New Testament definition of grace AFTER being born again? To find the answer we must turn to Scripture, and also get in the mindset of the Hebrew men writing it. The Hebrews had writing styles. One of the many styles is called 'doubling.' It is defining a word or phrase by repeating it immediately another way for clarity or emphasis. We see this often in Scripture.

"And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:33

Jesus has given us His grace - His "power" to be righteous.

What did he tell the disciples to do just before He left earth?

"Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

"Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,"

In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

This is why Romans 8:1 says (in it's complete form) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Many translations stop before "who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Those translations emphasize the unmerited favor definition of grace. What other definition can you come to if what you read is, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"?

When taken to the extreme in interpretation, Paul writes against very liberal views of not being under the law, but under their view of grace, such as the Gnostics and the Nicolaitans.

2 Timothy 3: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Many have white-washed this next important scripture of the apostle John due to modern Gnostic definitions of grace.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother."

Yes, we have free will, which is why Paul said,

I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

24 And those who are Christ’s HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Romans 3:
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

That is certainly unmerited favor, indeed. But Paul doesn't stop there.

31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

How? How do we "establish" the law if there is no law to break? By perfectly keeping it, of course. But isn't that works? Not if it is born from your new nature which is dead to sin/lawlessness!

The eternal moral laws of God to "love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself" are written permanently on our hearts of flesh. But Jesus didn't just give us his laws anew, but a way to keep them. This is where the grace of God changes its common meaning. That is the grace He has given us - part of Himself, for He is full of grace and truth.

So what is the New Testament definition of grace AFTER being born again? To find the answer we must turn to Scripture, and also get in the mindset of the Hebrew men writing it. The Hebrews had writing styles. One of the many styles is called 'doubling.' It is defining a word or phrase by repeating it immediately another way for clarity or emphasis. We see this often in Scripture.

"And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:33

Jesus has given us His grace - His "power" to be righteous.

What did he tell the disciples to do just before He left earth?

"Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

"Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,"

In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

This is why Romans 8:1 says (in it's complete form) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Many translations stop before "who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Those translations emphasize the unmerited favor definition of grace. What other definition can you come to if what you read is, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"?

When taken to the extreme in interpretation, Paul writes against very liberal views of not being under the law, but under their view of grace, such as the Gnostics and the Nicolaitans.

2 Timothy 3: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Many have white-washed this next important scripture of the apostle John due to modern Gnostic definitions of grace.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother."

Yes, we have free will, which is why Paul said,

I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

24 And those who are Christ’s HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Typically Gnosticism is seen as the need of secret knowledge for our salvation, it is having that knowledge not grace they would say saves us. Never heard anyone associate salvation by God's Grace with Gnosticism. Unclear how we can know much at all about Nicolaitans, except they indulged themselves wickedly.

Faith that matters - from God - revealed(given) to us individually

Divine faith, then, is that form of knowledge which is derived from Divine authority, and which consequently begets absolute certitude in the mind of the recipient.

Matt 16:15-17 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.​

That such Divine faith is necessary, follows from the fact of Divine revelation. For revelation means that the Supreme Truth has spoken to man and revealed to him truths which are not in themselves evident to the human mind.​

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Faith

Rom 3 22 God’s way of justification through faith in Jesus Christ, meant for everybody and sent down upon everybody without distinction, if he has faith.

24 And justification comes to us as a free gift from his grace, through our redemption in Christ Jesus. 25 God has offered him to us as a means of reconciliation, in virtue of faith, ransoming us with his blood. Thus God has vindicated his own holiness, shewing us why he overlooked our former sins 26 in the days of his forbearance; and he has also vindicated the holiness of Jesus Christ, here and now, as one who is himself holy, and imparts holiness to those who take their stand upon faith in him.[10]

Rom 12 6 The spiritual gifts we have differ, according to the special grace which has been assigned to each.

John 1 16 From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Rom 18 27........ On his arrival he greatly helped those who through grace had become believers,

Rom 12 23 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of yourself more highly than you ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Heb 12 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the origin and the crown of all faith

Heb 11 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever would approach him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.​

 

[1stcenturylady]

Typically Gnosticism is seen as the need of secret knowledge for our salvation, it is having that knowledge not grace they would say saves us. Never heard anyone associate salvation by God's Grace with Gnosticism. Unclear how we can know much at all about Nicolaitans, except they indulged themselves wickedly.

Faith that matters - from God - revealed(given) to us individually

Divine faith, then, is that form of knowledge which is derived from Divine authority, and which consequently begets absolute certitude in the mind of the recipient.

Matt 16:15-17 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.​

That such Divine faith is necessary, follows from the fact of Divine revelation. For revelation means that the Supreme Truth has spoken to man and revealed to him truths which are not in themselves evident to the human mind.​

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Faith

Rom 3 22 God’s way of justification through faith in Jesus Christ, meant for everybody and sent down upon everybody without distinction, if he has faith.

24 And justification comes to us as a free gift from his grace, through our redemption in Christ Jesus. 25 God has offered him to us as a means of reconciliation, in virtue of faith, ransoming us with his blood. Thus God has vindicated his own holiness, shewing us why he overlooked our former sins 26 in the days of his forbearance; and he has also vindicated the holiness of Jesus Christ, here and now, as one who is himself holy, and imparts holiness to those who take their stand upon faith in him.[10]

Rom 12 6 The spiritual gifts we have differ, according to the special grace which has been assigned to each.

John 1 16 From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Rom 18 27........ On his arrival he greatly helped those who through grace had become believers,

Rom 12 23 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of yourself more highly than you ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Heb 12 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the origin and the crown of all faith

Heb 11 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever would approach him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.​

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

John's first epistle is referring to Gnosticism here in which they did not believe Jesus came in the flesh, but only appeared to be flesh, but was actually only spirit. As far as sin, they believed we could only sin wrongly in the spirit and be condemned, thus any sins of the flesh were not sins at all! This is also what the Nicolaitans believed. They had their wives in common. Nicolas gave his wife to all the men of his sect to be raped by them. He also taught this must be done daily. This showed, to them, the power of grace. Because they did not believe their sins of the flesh were actually sins, they said they had no sin. Thus John's rebuke that they had no truth in them. 1 John 1:6, 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10. The Gnostics were infiltrating the church, thus John's warning to those of his congregation who were leaning in that direction.

Paul also curbed this heresy by saying, "What shall we say then, should we sin so grace may abound? God forbid!"

Acts 6:5 names Nicolas. This is who Irenaeus in his Against Heresies, says is the founder of the Nicolaitans.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

John's first epistle is referring to Gnosticism here in which they did not believe Jesus came in the flesh, but only appeared to be flesh, but was actually only spirit. As far as sin, they believed we could only sin wrongly in the spirit and be condemned, thus any sins of the flesh were not sins at all! This is also what the Nicolaitans believed. They had their wives in common. Nicolas gave his wife to all the men of his sect to be raped by them. He also taught this must be done daily. This showed, to them, the power of grace. Because they did not believe their sins of the flesh were actually sins, they said they had no sin. Thus John's rebuke that they had no truth in them. 1 John 1:6, 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10. The Gnostics were infiltrating the church, thus John's warning to those of his congregation who were leaning in that direction.

Paul also curbed this heresy by saying, "What shall we say then, should we sin so grace may abound? God forbid!"

My point was Saint Paul is not arguing against Grace, which if a Christian sins the Saint absolutely says they are in need of Grace. So his comment is Christians should not sin just to make use of spreading more Grace all around, in other words just because we can [receive remission of sins through God's Grace]. God forbid.

Gnostic is a term used that actually covers a very broad and varied set of beliefs, but principally in a understated nutshell that doesn't cover all those variations: yes the flesh is corrupt and we don't need it anyway - so party hard with it because the spirit part of our nature is the only thing that matters. They do not care about Grace at all and do not think we need it.

Anyway, and again what does that have to do with Grace, besides your attempt to link Gnostics who were obviously sinning with Saint Paul's saying we (Christians) cannot abuse our access to God Grace by letting sins abound in our lives. Again, the Gnostics believed [secret] knowledge saves us, not God's Grace so they opposed the idea humans even needed God's Grace- we just needed the secret knowledge they claimed to have. Yes - They viewed the flesh already corrupt anyway. So when they sinned they did see it as wrong, did not care about the idea anyone needed Grace to recover from sins of the flesh.

Acts 6:5 names Nicolas. This is who Irenaeus in his Against Heresies, says is the founder of the Nicolaitans.

I think maybe Nicolaitans came from Rev 2 and the reference is not fully understood as it is "lost" to history in that we get a lot of conflicting hints at who they are that could be just expressions of various opinions. And a lot of those are very far removed from the writing of the Last Apostle alive in the 1st century.
Saint Irenaeus is early enough to consider accurate but he really does not say much about at all about them or who they are - much later someone references that early Saint and makes a connection to the deacon in Acts 6.
Saint Irenaeus suggested that like the Gnostic view of flesh, they apparently had some pretty free love ideas about sex too. I guess it is possible a deacon mentioned in Acts apostatized, as I can see that being associated "by some".
Nicolaism - Wikipedia
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Nicolaites Or Nicolaitans

Saint Irenaeus spoke against a lot of heretics and heresies. A bunch of different ones. He mentions these guys but only to say "they lead lives of unrestrained indulgence." which is sort of the idea i already said in my first post about it. My statement "Unclear how we can know much at all about Nicolaitans, except they indulged themselves wickedly."

Just because somewhere today we can probably find & read a blog where some one went and read Rev 2, saw a name for a group of people (and really nothing more) and then searched Christian writers to see who those people were, to the created in paraphrase a suggestion we know all about those dudes is not a good approach to
history. If you go read some of those articles, people are quoting people sometimes generations apart and building on the story beyond what the person they quoted actually said - so it pays to sometimes to go and actually read what is out there. WIKI does not not do a bad job in this case as it offers a bunch of theories of who the Nicolaitans were - and only a few were touched on in this thread.

Also keep in mind you are relying on a history preserved by the Church most evangelicals despise to argue for an understanding of the Bible - studying history somewhat and half way to Rome already. All are welcome here.

 

[1stcenturylady]

My point was Saint Paul is not arguing against Grace, which if a Christian sins the Saint absolutely says they are in need of Grace. So his comment is Christians should not sin just to make use of spreading more Grace all around, in other words just because we can [receive remission of sins through God's Grace]. God forbid.

Gnostic is a term used that actually covers a very broad and varied set of beliefs, but principally in a understated nutshell that doesn't cover all those variations: yes the flesh is corrupt and we don't need it anyway - so party hard with it because the spirit part of our nature is the only thing that matters. They do not care about Grace at all and do not think we need it.

Anyway, and again what does that have to do with Grace, besides your attempt to link Gnostics who were obviously sinning with Saint Paul's saying we (Christians) cannot abuse our access to God Grace by letting sins abound in our lives. Again, the Gnostics believed [secret] knowledge saves us, not God's Grace so they opposed the idea humans even needed God's Grace- we just needed the secret knowledge they claimed to have. Yes - They viewed the flesh already corrupt anyway. So when they sinned they did see it as wrong, did not care about the idea anyone needed Grace to recover from sins of the flesh.

I think maybe Nicolaitans came from Rev 2 and the reference is not fully understood as it is "lost" to history in that we get a lot of conflicting hints at who they are that could be just expressions of various opinions. And a lot of those are very far removed from the writing of the Last Apostle alive in the 1st century.
Saint Irenaeus is early enough to consider accurate but he really does not say much about at all about them or who they are - much later someone references that early Saint and makes a connection to the deacon in Acts 6.
Saint Irenaeus suggested that like the Gnostic view of flesh, they apparently had some pretty free love ideas about sex too. I guess it is possible a deacon mentioned in Acts apostatized, as I can see that being associated "by some".
Nicolaism - Wikipedia
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Nicolaites Or Nicolaitans

Saint Irenaeus spoke against a lot of heretics and heresies. A bunch of different ones. He mentions these guys but only to say "they lead lives of unrestrained indulgence." which is sort of the idea i already said in my first post about it. My statement "Unclear how we can know much at all about Nicolaitans, except they indulged themselves wickedly."

Just because somewhere today we can probably find & read a blog where some one went and read Rev 2, saw a name for a group of people (and really nothing more) and then searched Christian writers to see who those people were, to the created in paraphrase a suggestion we know all about those dudes is not a good approach to
history. If you go read some of those articles, people are quoting people sometimes generations apart and building on the story beyond what the person they quoted actually said - so it pays to sometimes to go and actually read what is out there. WIKI does not not do a bad job in this case as it offers a bunch of theories of who the Nicolaitans were - and only a few were touched on in this thread.

Also keep in mind you are relying on a history preserved by the Church most evangelicals despise to argue for an understanding of the Bible - studying history somewhat and half way to Rome already. All are welcome here.

I am very afraid for the church today. White-washed grace is only one heresy.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I am very afraid for the church today. White-washed grace is only one heresy.

And what Catholic source is to be quoted now to support the idea the existence of a heresy called "white-washed" Grace?
What is that heresy and how does it relate to the Grace received from Holy Communion?

 

[1stcenturylady]

And what Catholic source is to be quoted now to support the idea the existence of a heresy called "white-washed" Grace?
What is that heresy and how does it relate to the Grace received from Holy Communion?

I got a little off track actually on this post. As far as sin goes, my views on grace are not against Catholicism at all. Those errors were brought back during the Reformation. Ever heard of once saved, always saved?

Now I see why your last posts to me were defensive.

 

[JIMINZ]

.

Every use of the word GRACE in the New Testament is the same form the Strong's Concordance
131 Verses - - 121 times used, G-5485 so here it is.


GRACE - & - FAVOUR
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
Graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Every use for the word Favour in the New Testament is the same as that for Grace. G-5485

Every use of the word Grace in the Old Testament
is H-2580, - - 37 Verses, 38 uses

Every use of the word Favour in the Old Testament.
is the same as that for Grace H-2580, 24 Verses, 24 uses

GRACE - & - FAVOUR
H2580
חֵן
chên
khane
From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

H2603
חָנַן
chânan
khaw-nan'
A primitive root properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.

Just for general information, the word UNMERITED is not found in the entire Bible.

 

[1stcenturylady]

.

Every use of the word GRACE in the New Testament is the same form the Strong's Concordance
131 Verses - - 121 times used, G-5485 so here it is.


GRACE - & - FAVOUR
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
Graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Every use for the word Favour in the New Testament is the same as that for Grace. G-5485

Every use of the word Grace in the Old Testament
is H-2580, - - 37 Verses, 38 uses

Every use of the word Favour in the Old Testament.
is the same as that for Grace H-2580, 24 Verses, 24 uses

GRACE - & - FAVOUR
H2580
חֵן
chên
khane
From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

H2603
חָנַן
chânan
khaw-nan'
A primitive root properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.

Just for general information, the word UNMERITED is not found in the entire Bible.

Knowing who the inspired author's nationality helps determine what they meant by grace in some instances. They used Hebrew styles of writing. One was 'doubling' shown here:

"And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:33

Anyone who can read can determine that grace means supernatural "power" and is the reason Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit. And without His Spirit, we don't belong to Christ. Jesus didn't die so we can sin with no condemnation. He died so we could be dead to sin once and for all.

1 John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Anyone who can read can determine that grace means supernatural "power"

According to my 3rd grade teacher, I can read, and I can also tell you that your exegesis is very, very lacking.

 

[1stcenturylady]

According to my 3rd grade teacher, I can read, and I can also tell you that your exegesis is very, very lacking.

I take it you failed to take Hebrew writing styles in school.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I take it you failed to take Hebrew writing styles in school.

Are you talking to me?

"grace means supernatural "power""

 

[1stcenturylady]

Are you talking to me?

"grace means supernatural "power""

Well it doesn't mean brawn.

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has long since ceased to be on topic, and is full of goading and the like.
It will remain closed.
MOD HAT OFF​