Lord's Prayer?

[Lost Squirrel]

Has there been recent talk of altering the Lord's Prayer?
I heard there may be some changes coming, but not sure if that is new or old news.

 

[eyeofthestormministries]

Has there been recent talk of altering the Lord's Prayer?
I heard there may be some changes coming, but not sure if that is new or old news.

I personally have never heard this. I don't understand how or why someone would change the Lord's prayer when it is in the bible and IS the Word of God.

Pastor Michael

 

[RedTulipMom]

altering it to what? are you talking within the Lutheran church or just within the ELCA?

 

[AngCath]

You mean apart from the modern language version, "Our Father in heaven..."?

The UCC has an altered modern version (that is terrible) that begins, "Our Father-Mother..."

 

[Lost Squirrel]

Not sure. The conversation I had with another gal from church was interrupted often, so I didn't get a good feel for which denoms or if she was just bringing up old news that died.

I do know that I was at another Lutheran church that had some ultra modern wording for 90% of their service and I did NOT like it at all. I was so appalled by it that I don't recall if the Lord's Prayer was one of their modernized and neutered changes they implemented.

 

[Bryne]

well...I have come across this on a Lutheran Church's site:

Our Mother who is within us
we celebrate your many names.
Your wisdom come.
Your will be done,
unfolding from the depths within us.
Each day you give us all that we need.
You remind us of our limits
and we let go.
You support us in our power
and we act with courage.
For you are the dwelling place within us
the empowerment around us
and the celebration among us
now and for ever. Amen

Text by Miriam Therese Winter
Medical Mission Sister, Professor
of Liturgy, Worship and Spirituality.
Author of WomanWord and other
books and resources for Ritual.

http://www.herchurch.org/index.html


I can't imagine that this is the norm in ELCA churches, though.

 

[Lost Squirrel]

Well, not to sound synical, but considering the web address of where that was found, I can't say I'm suprised.

 

[Bryne]

Well, yeah...there web address is fitting. Still...it seems a bit extreme even for an ELCA church.

 

[AngCath]

That congregation is all kinds of wacky.

 

[lux et lex]

I wouldn't take anything that happens in "her church" as being remotely close to being typical ELCA. I don't see the Lord's Prayer changing any time soon.

 

[Bryne]

Well...I lived in San Francisco for several years...so yeah...I wouldn't take anything that happens there as being typical of anything.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

If your church still uses what I guess I'll call the KJV version because aside from Tresspasses instead of "debts" it pretty much is word for word the KJV Matthew Lord's Prayer, then you might be shifting to what I'll call the NRSV version of the Matthew Lord's prayer (for similar reason to the KJV except instead of debts it uses "sins").
This is not necessarily new. In fact you can find this version alongside the more traditional form in the Green LBW from '78.
This is the version put out by the ELLC (English Language Liturgical Consultation). In a link below you can scroll down to the section on the LP and see why they made the changes. For those wondering it is not "changing" the LP in the sense that it is adding/subtracting (aside from the debts-sins substitute, though the traditional LP does the same) it is merely a different translation in more modern and appropriate language. Personally I still prefer and use the older version, in part because it is what my memory knows. But I'm not angry over the new one. The most significant change you will find is the change of the phrase "lead us not into temptation" into "save us from the time of trial". If you have not seen the version below it looks like this (for more info on the language see link):

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.
For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
now and for ever. Amen

http://www.englishtexts.org/praying.pdf

 

[Lost Squirrel]

We are using the NRSV currently.
In which denoms does the time of trials version affect?

 

[lux et lex]

Lots of different language in that one. My former home church still uses the "KJV" I guess. Well sometimes. Occasionally in the contemporary services they take out the thees and thines.

 

[Sandcv]

I memorized the KJV version when I was younger, and I still prefer it, I guess because that is the one I remember the best. I then memorized the more modern "sins" version when the church I was attending started using it in services. It seems occasionally they will throw in the "debtors" version, which is always disconcerting to me - I dislike trying to read along to make sure I am saying the correct version aloud, it's distracting. But then I am always startled if I am not paying attention to it and end up saying a different version than everyone else around me!

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I memorized the KJV version when I was younger, and I still prefer it, I guess because that is the one I remember the best. I then memorized the more modern "sins" version when the church I was attending started using it in services. It seems occasionally they will throw in the "debtors" version, which is always disconcerting to me - I dislike trying to read along to make sure I am saying the correct version aloud, it's distracting. But then I am always startled if I am not paying attention to it and end up saying a different version than everyone else around me!

My wife grew up with debtors, married into tresspasses, and now frustratingly says sins.

 

[Bryne]

I grew up with debtors. It took me a good year at my current church before I could say it in church without messing up and saying debtors instead of trespasses. I would read the Lord's Prayer from the bulletin in order to keep from messing it up...it was just the only way I could manage it.

 

[Lost Squirrel]

...I would read the Lord's Prayer from the bulletin in order to keep from messing it up...

I hear ya! Mine isn't the Lord's Prayer, but the creeds. I tend to default to the Nicene Creed when we are to say the Apostle's, so to keep from straying I do have to keep my nose in the bulletin.

 

[Tangible]

If your church still uses what I guess I'll call the KJV version because aside from Tresspasses instead of "debts" it pretty much is word for word the KJV Matthew Lord's Prayer, then you might be shifting to what I'll call the NRSV version of the Matthew Lord's prayer (for similar reason to the KJV except instead of debts it uses "sins").
This is not necessarily new. In fact you can find this version alongside the more traditional form in the Green LBW from '78.
This is the version put out by the ELLC (English Language Liturgical Consultation). In a link below you can scroll down to the section on the LP and see why they made the changes. For those wondering it is not "changing" the LP in the sense that it is adding/subtracting (aside from the debts-sins substitute, though the traditional LP does the same) it is merely a different translation in more modern and appropriate language. Personally I still prefer and use the older version, in part because it is what my memory knows. But I'm not angry over the new one. The most significant change you will find is the change of the phrase "lead us not into temptation" into "save us from the time of trial". If you have not seen the version below it looks like this (for more info on the language see link):

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.
For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
now and for ever. Amen

http://www.englishtexts.org/praying.pdf

I'm surprised this doesn't say "from the evil one" in stead of "from evil". Even Luther said that would be a more accurate translation from the Greek.