Lord of the Ring: Good or Bad?

[mina]

mina
yeah, but i dont wanna see you without any either.

it's not your job to look, especially if you have to be a peeping tom to see.

and when the reasons for the convictions are to all people, all people should have the convictions. there are many convictions that should never ever vary from person to person.

the word conviction means a personal impression. There is no conviction to all people. Not everyone in the family of God is going to have the same conviction. so what are you going to do if people don't have the same convictions as you. Are you going to say they aren't a Christian? You aren't God and you don't have that job. You can't judge the entirety of someone's heart and determine if they are a good Christian or not by wiether or not they saw a move or read a book. Just because someone saw a movie with wizards in it doesn't mean they are worshiping satan. By the way I agree that sorcery is wrong and that a Christian should not engage in it. If you go by your principle then anytime you read in the Bible about a sorceror then you are guilty of it. Besides if you had ever read the books or seen the movies you would understand that the "magic" and "sorcery" is seen as bad, and to embrace it is to bring corruption and destruction to yourself and others. The books and movies do not promote it at all, they promote a Christian worldview. I think that if a non-Christian gets hooked on tolkien because of this movie and then truly understands the message of the story and then checks out how God changed Tolkien's life and then even might start reading C.S. Lewis (who was a friend of tolkien, btw) , and then the Bible then it's a good thing. And I have known people who have become interested in the Bible and things of God because of Tolkien's writings and life.

 

[endure]

me a peeping tom? noooooo...way

but a person not wearing any is very obvious sometimes.

yes there is a conviction for all people actually, the holyspirit brings us the same truths, the bible, to convict us of sin. and conviction comes from the never changing scriptures, not me.
there are many convictions that are exactly the same for every true christian.
though i know there are convictions that arent either, but this isnt one of them, i dont beleive so anyway.
well obviously it is...but it shouldnt be, i dont think so anyway.

well this movie doesnt JUST have A scorcerer in it, ya know?

you said

If you go by your principle then anytime you read in the Bible about a sorceror then you are guilty of it

your not getting what im saying, theres a diffrence between accurate history reading of them and happening to read of one for second, and watching it done for entertainment and relaxing in it is diffrent.
the embracing of it is very diffrent.

i fully understand the outcome of what im saying and its meaning and how far it reaches into all the things i have ever done and will do.
but i fully accept that, because its based on truth.

you said

The books and movies do not promote it at all, they promote a Christian worldview.

i dont mean to be harsh, but that is very wrong.
a christian world veiw means Jesus, and hes not in that movie, never in christianity did Jesus endorse us to do many of things demonstrated in those movies, but he said to never do them.
they are no more christian like than a man doing something evil because he thinks hes doing some good for the world.
no more christian than my friend rachel who is a wiccan and cast spells and says they are good spells to help people.
help people...thats a good christ like thing, but wicca isnt anything near Christ like, and neither is that movie that is full of many things our bible says are extremely forbidden by God.

can God use it for someones good?
sure, he can use anything. but that doesnt mean we ought to have anything to do with it. and God doesnt need it, there are better ways for God to touch peoples lives.

and there is a limit to what anything can do for someone, if God wasnt a part of it.
it may inspire, it may bring emotion, it may motivate, but it wont last.
becuase people need the scriptures and a real move of God.
and thats not those movies,
that unclean thing, scorcrery, is filling those movies to such an extent that they are far from God.

regardless of how outlandish that may seem, scorcery is a terrible thing, yes that movie does magnify it.

 

[mina]

I think you just want to be right. And if you want to think that, go ahead. I also know God and I follow Him in every way, and I don't feel guilty for watching and enjoying these movies.

By the way, have you seen this movie or read the books? Because you talk about how they are absent of a Christian worldview and magnify sorcery. If you have seen/read them then you are guilty of what you are afraid of. If you haven't seen them, then you don't know what you are talking about. I see Jesus in these stories. Although Tolkien has said that LOTR is not a Biblical allegory, there are characters that corelate to God and Jesus. There is a theme in these books that show humankind's need for a "savior" although in the books it's called a "king". Sorcery is indeed shown as bad and corruptive.

As for convictions, it's a personal thing. There are no universal convictions like you say. If there were, then every single person in the world would be a Christian. Among Christians, there are no universal convictions. God speaks to each of His children personally about different things according to thier own indivdual struggles. I also trust God to be big enough to speak to his children about what each needs to hear.

 

[endure]

mina
im not just trying to come out on top...really im not. though i do believe this strongly becuase God dealt with me about this when i enjoyed the movies. not becuase i think im better.

yes ive read a portion of the books, and ive seen some of the movies.
i know i am guilty of it, but i will not be again, and if i do, i am wrong.

you said

There is a theme in these books that show humankinds need for a "savior" although in the books it's called a "king".

well, ya know thats good...but that really isnt much compared to whats else is there.

no universal convictions?
you dont beleive that ALL christians must serve one Lord, must not commit fornication, must not lie cheat or steal, must love all people....
those are things i speak of that convict us, ALL of us... there are some there that if we lack, we are simply not Christians.
and beleive this should be the same, convicting us all that is...
becuase the word of God that condemns scorcery is very very general and covers all peoples, it doesnt apply to a certain persons life or situation.

 

[mina]

There are universal commands (not convictions) that Christians obey out of love for their Savior.

I think this is a very Christian movie and book series. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were both ferverent supporters of evangelical Christianity. You should read focus on the family's review of this movie. Every Christian review I've read supports what I think about this movie. You keep saying that the message of Jesus in this series isn't good compared to what else is there. What do you see there? Sorcery is condemned. Every intellegent and informed commentary that I have ever read on Tolkien (even before the movies came out) , even the non- Christian comentaries agree that the message of Jesus was being conveyed throughout. This is not a Biblical allegory. But it is a fantasy story that contains the message of Christ. Tolkien was a Christian that was also interested in mythology, he wrote fantasy stories that first and formost highlighted his belief in a Savior. These books are not the inspired word of God, but they are not the works of satan either. Comparing LOTR to wicca is like comparing apples with a stump of wood. LOTR is a story that was written out of a man's Christian worldview. Wicca is a religion that was born out of someone's desire to dabble in things that are very far from God.

Watching a movie that condemns sorcery, isn't exactly going against the Bible. Like I said before, I am a committed Christian and have no guilt and shame for enjoying this series. And I also serve the same God of all creation that you do. If you experience that then you should not watch it. Not everyone is like you, nor do they struggle with the same things you do. But I know I am not going to go and particapate in sorcery if i watch a movie that's condemning it. Perhaps when you read the book and saw parts of the movie you didn't understand the message the author was trying to convey.

 

[Brooke]

While we're on the subject, I was just curious... what do real-life sorcerers do, anyway?

 

[Blessed-one]

While we're on the subject, I was just curious... what do real-life sorcerers do, anyway?

it's been said in a lot of LOTR and HP debates that real sorcery is way much different.

imagination is a literary device.

 

[babybear]

Thank you for all of your help. I think that I will go out and rent the movies one by one and watch them. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Polycarp1]

Hey, Endure? A fact which is not brought out in the movies, nor in the books they're based on for that matter -- it's in Unfinished Tales, a collection of Tolkien's writings published by his son after his death -- but something that should shape your view of the story. The only characters who use magic in the entire story are three Maiar -- one on the good side and two who have fallen -- and what Maiar are is created spirits who have been sent into the world by God in quasi-human bodies to carry out God's will (but having free will, they can turn from Him and sin). For all practical purposes, they're angels wearing bodies at God's behest. And the Nazgul, the Ringwraiths who do most of the evil stuff, are former kings and nobelmen who have been posssessed by the chief of the evil angels. If an angel is not permitted to do supernatural acts, I don't know who is!

Without giving away the plot, there's an important lesson for Christians in the story -- and one Tolkien intended be there: our job is to carry out God's will for us, resisting temptation, as far as we can -- and to support each other in doing so -- and then trust in Him to bring about success when we have reached our limit.

 

[endure]

ploycarp
if it is entended to be for Jesus' glory it wouldnt be hard to make it apparent.
and it being called wizardry and magic itself steps out of bounds as far as biblical goes.
witches and magic and scorcery are condemned in the bible.
your explanation doesnt do away with that. and this is why i believe what i do.

mina
you know why i believe what i do.

anyway
think what you do if your firm in it, im just expressing what i believe.

Goodday to you.
Godbless.

Lee.

 

[JesseB.]

Lee

We Live in this world. If we condemn anything that goes against Scripture, then where's the joy in life? We'd be missing good family films, good reading, etc. Try not to make a list of do's and dont's. Instead, make a list of things that you do and will do. LIVE A LITTLE! I watch Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter. Am I a sinner? NO. I am a devout Christian. I go to Church, pray, etc. I'll sum it up in one sentance:


IT'S ENTERTAINMENT!

SHEESH!

Enough about all this "Is Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter evil?" topics.

 

[Super Gnat]

Endure, if people started calling apples 'wizards', would that make it wrong to eat them?

 

[Brooke]

Everything is going to have a speck of darkness in it, because that's just how things are. We live in a fallen world. If we limit ourselves to only the things we thing have absolutely nothing dark in it at all, we're going to have a boring life. Like the monks of old who lived in self-imposed poverty and refused to look at women at all for fear of lust (or something like that).
Okay, I don't think they did the latter, but they were certainly pretty darn puritanical.

 

[brettnolan]

Will Santa Claus visit your children (when & if you have them) on Christmas eve?

 

[Super Gnat]

I'm pro-LOTR, but my parents didn't do the Santa Claus thing with me and I don't plan on doing it with my children (should I have them). Their rationale, like mine, is that I'd rather know I was getting gifts from people who love me than some random white guy in a suit, and also because deception is wrong.

 

[Brooke]

I agree totally.