Looking for literal Creationists among Sabbath keeping groups - are you one?

BobRyan

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yes, kinda sorta

Is it your view that the creation account - of Gen 1-2:3 is accurate as well as the summation of it that we find in legal code in Ex 20:11? Such that all life on Earth was created in the same 7 day week timeline as still existed in weekly cycle at Sinai?
 
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BobRyan

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all the events are literal and based on historic events , but the time sequence may not be liner and stright cause and effect.

Let's take an example of God mentioning that 7 day timeilne in legal code
Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice how it compares to that same statement in day-7 Gen 2:1-3
Gen 2:
And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Now lets suppose that the newly freed slaves from Egypt at the foot of Sinai read those two texts of scripture - and insert "but not consecutive days" -- when would be the Sabbath for them? Would it be surprising for them to learn that manna does not fall on the literal 7th day in a literal 7 day sequence? Would they have any incentive/motivation at all for inserting some other timeline so that the 7 days are not consecutive?
 
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Adventist Heretic

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Let's take an example of God mentioning that 7 day timeilne in legal code
Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice how it compares to that same statement in day-7 Gen 2:1-3
Gen 2:
And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Now lets suppose that the newly freed slaves from Egypt at the foot of Sinai read those two texts of scripture - and insert "but not consecutive days" -- when would be the Sabbath for them? Would it be surprising for them to learn that manna does not fall on the literal 7th day in a literal 7 day sequence? Would they have any incentive/motivation at all for inserting some other timeline so that the 7 days are not consecutive?
i understand you reasoning Bob, but the test of Genesis 1:1 -2:3 tell me other wise. the text tells me that there is a pattern that is being followed in the description and recording of the events. The pattern is Heaven Earth, Earth. repeat 3 times. every time the pattern repeats it amplifies some aspect of Heaven or Earth.
 
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BobRyan

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i under stand you reasoining Bob, but the test of Genesis 1:1 -2:3 tell me other wise.

as noted in my previous post - the context of the contemporary readers is a key part of exegeting a Bible text because knowing what the author is saying and seeing how that would be understood by his primary intended audience helps to get a more accurate rendering of the text.

The Lev 23 annual feast days "are not consecutive" one following on the heels of the prior one. Moses had the skill and ability to communicate the concept of days that are not consecutive ..

It would take a lot of mental gymnastics to get the details of the 7 day creation week found in legal code in Ex 20:8-11 and in Gen 1:2-through- Gen 2:3 in the texts I quoted to come out as "non-consecutive days" to those newly freed slaves from Egypt at Sinai.

Many Bible scholars (including SDA ones) point out that Gen 1:1 is not part of the 7 day sequence. So I am not arguing for that as part of the 7 days. Rather it is a more general statement saying that all the universe was created by God. IN almost every case when you ask someone who accepts the literal statements of the Bible "what did God create on day 1" - they say "light" rather than "the entire universe". The Sun and moon were not created until Day 4 according to Gen 1 so it is clear that Gen 1:1 did not specify all stars/galaxies made before the light of our star since our star is one of those "all stars".

Gen 1:1 is the general statement covering everything. Gen 1:2 begins the 7 day sequence for formatting our environment on Earth, our solar system all life on Earth.
 
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Adventist Heretic

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as noted in my previous post - the context of the contemporary readers is a key part of exegeting a Bible text because knowing what the author is saying and seeing how that would be understood by his primary intended audience helps to get a more accurate rendering of the text.

The Lev 23 annual feast days "are not consecutive" one following on the heels of the prior one. Moses had the skill and ability to communicate the concept of days that are not consecutive ..

It would take a lot of mental gymnastics to get the details of the 7 day creation week found in legal code in Ex 20:8-11 and in Gen 1:2-through- Gen 2:3 in the texts I quoted to come out as "non-consecutive days" to those newly freed slaves from Egypt at Sinai.

Many Bible scholars (including SDA ones) point out that Gen 1:1 is not part of the 7 day sequence. So I am not arguing for that as part of the 7 days. Rather it is a more general statement saying that all the universe was created by God. IN almost every case when you ask someone who accepts the literal statements of the Bible "what did God create on day 1" - they say "light" rather than "the entire universe". The Sun and moon were not created until Day 4 according to Gen 1 so it is clear that Gen 1:1 did not specify all stars/galaxies made before the light of our star since our star is one of those "all stars".

Gen 1:1 is the general statement covering everything. Gen 1:2 begins the 7 day sequence for formatting our environment on Earth, our solar system all life on Earth.
I'm surprised that you got that out of Genesis 1:1. Most people miss that. How ever I don't think you go far enough. I think verse 2 is not part of the sequence either. Verse 2 tells us specifically that they are emphasizing the earth part of the heaven and earth paradigm. I think verse 3 is where we start the creation account. It starts by amplifying some aspect of heaven, light. Then it turns to the Earth amplifies two aspects of earth. Then it Repeats that, the sun moon and stars.heaven.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm surprised that you got that out of Genesis 1:1. Most people miss that.

That is actually a pretty well accepted detail among Seventh-day Adventists because of the doctrine on the war in heaven taking place before the creation of Earth, so I don't actually take any credit for getting that point.

How ever I don't think you go far enough. I think verse 2 is not part of the sequence either. Verse 2 tells us specifically that they are emphasizing the earth part of the heaven and earth paradigm. I think verse 3 is where we start the creation account. It starts by amplifying some aspect of heaven, light. Then it turns to the Earth amplifies two aspects of earth. Then it Repeats that, the sun moon and stars.heaven.

Gen 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

If at the first second of day one - God speaks "let there be light" then maybe we can exclude vs 2 entirely - but that means not even one second of the vs 2 condition could exist on day one just before God speaks. I just don't know enough about "the seconds" of day one to say it was "the first second" for sure. :)

But "given that vs 3" start as you propose - it would still be 7 literal consecutive days from Gen 1:3 to Day-seven in Gen 2:1-3
 
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That is actually a pretty well accepted detail among Seventh-day Adventists because of the doctrine on the war in heaven taking place before the creation of Earth, so I don't actually take any credit for getting that point.



Gen 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

If at the first second of day one - God speaks "let there be light" then maybe we can exclude vs 2 entirely - but that means not even one second of the vs 2 condition could exist on day one just before God speaks. I just don't know enough about "the seconds" of day one to say it was "the first second" for sure. :)

But "given that vs 3" start as you propose - it would still be 7 literal consecutive days from Gen 1:3 to Day-seven in Gen 2:1-3
This is where the Hebrew technique kicks in. There are a number of techniques they're being used in Genesis chapters 1 and 2. They are common to Hebrew. There is parallelism , which consists of making a statement and then repeating that statement and amplifying it in some way. It's a lot of circular repetition. The other technique that's being used technique that describes completeness I'm not sure what the name of it is. But you see it with Heaven and Earth, evening and morning, night and day. When you see two things join together that are completely polar opposites it always refers to the complete and total nature of the thing. With heaven and Earth it refers to all the aspects of the universe. With evening and morning refers to all the time included in the night but all the time including in the day. Same with night and day. Genesis 1:3 starts the repetition of the second occurrence of the parallel. Apparel is made up of three parts , one part heaven, two parts Earth. Verse 3 day 1, is the amplification of the, the heaven part of parallel days two and three are the amplification of the Earth part of the parallel.
 
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visionary

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It is within God's power to do it in a blink of an eye. He said He formed it with His own hands. Which to me, says it was a hands on process, which explains the time frame. Evolutionists do not want to believe in our all power, all knowing, great Creator. They will argue it because they know if their theory falls, they are left facing God. Scary thought to them. Comforting thought for me.
 
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