Looking for faith but failing.

[Twillum]

These are a few of the very general questions and thoughts I struggle with as I search for faith (it would take far too long to go into detail so I summed them up). I’m not looking for a discussion on these questions or thoughts, I am simply posting some things *I* am having issues with when searching for faith. This is a sincere post of things that continue to cause me to struggle, things I can’t simply overlook. I have never been one to simply accept someone’s word or take something on blind faith, especially when history, logic and evidence scream at me not to do so.
I haven’t believed in god since I was a kid. I guess I would consider myself a bit of an agnostic and have been for 20+ years. I don’t believe in god but I’m not against the possibility but I am very much against religion. Truth is, I would like to believe but I can’t. I would love to believe that after this life I will see my family again but I don’t.
Years ago I began looking for answers to find faith. I found a love for religious history which I found fascinating but rather than answers it brought more questions and to me, more evidence that it’s all just the same basic fable that has been going on since the beginning of time to help people cope and offer blind understanding. Historically speaking and knowing how people are, it’s only natural that these beliefs would come about.
For several years now I have been stuck here. Pondering all I have read, all I am told and trying to dig through the mountains of trash for the truth but onyl finding more questions.

How do you have faith in a book that you believe is no more factual or believable than any tales by the Brothers Grimm?

How do you believe in a book that has essentially ‘borrowed’ older tales and lore?

How do you believe a religion where so many of its tales and beliefs are not its own?

How do you believe a religion where its central belief is strikingly similar to Mithraism?

How do you have faith in a god (that based on stories from the bible and what’s told to you by the church) you find petty and childish?

How do you believe in a religion with such questionable history?

How could I follow a god that would allow a child rapist into his grace but condemn a good soul who helps others simply because of different beliefs?

These are things I often find myself asking when searching for faith. There is a quote by Thomas Jefferson that I do like and seem to be living.

Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

I’ve certainly got the questioning down.

There are a few beliefs I have come to over the years. That religion and church is unnecessary and often misguided. Corruption and disagreement has run rampant though out history and two Christian churches can have two drastically different views and interpretations. I may be wrong on the gospel but I believe it was Thomas who essentially said the church wasn’t needed, that the light was within each of us, we only need to find it. No big surprised this isn’t mentioned much and never made it into the bible. All religions can’t be entirely right but they can all be wrong.

Something else I’m beginning to be convinced of. If there is a god, he does not get involved nearly as much as many will say, if he even gets involved at all. Far too much in our everyday lives get credited to or blamed on god that I believe he had no part of. To me that explains why bad things happen sometimes. Often seemed a bit arrogant to me that people will claim god personally saved them from a car accident or something while others face far worse.

As much as the church and the bible have played a role in the loss of my faith, I think the people played a rather large one as well. To listen to some so called ‘christians’ speak will often turn my stomach. Few know anything of their beliefs (sad fact) and many spout off some of the most vile and hateful things. Things like natural disaster victims deserving what they got and using it as a reason to preach their hatred justified by their misguided beliefs and interpretation.

Ultimately the biggest conclusion I came to is that I will not find god through the church or the bible and I have to believe that if there were a true god (not the one embellished by man for hundreds of reasons), I wouldn’t need either. Perhaps this is the wrong forum then, or not, after all this is non-christian struggles so I guess I still fit.

Sorry, started to get a bit off the topic there, I’ll wrap this up.

I don’t know why I’m writing this. Sort of felt the urge to lately but I didn’t anticipate the difficulty in doing so. This simple post has taken well over an hour to compose and is a mere fraction of the difficulties I face in my struggle. I guess I just wanted to see if there are others who understand what I’m going through, rather than those who have always believed without question. Thank you for taking the time to read. I hope to one day have these issues partially resolved as I fear they will never fully be resolved.

 

[JustAVessel]

Thank you for your questions. I will try to answer them as clearly as I can. I'll break you post down into sections for an easier response.

These are a few of the very general questions and thoughts I struggle with as I search for faith (it would take far too long to go into detail so I summed them up). I’m not looking for a discussion on these questions or thoughts, I am simply posting some things *I* am having issues with when searching for faith. This is a sincere post of things that continue to cause me to struggle, things I can’t simply overlook. I have never been one to simply accept someone’s word or take something on blind faith, especially when history, logic and evidence scream at me not to do so.

There is nothing wrong with your questioning. I actually hope more people learn to question the faith. While some things in the Christian faith need to be taken for granted, the Christian faith isn't a blind one, rather it is a faith based on knowledge.

I haven’t believed in god since I was a kid. I guess I would consider myself a bit of an agnostic and have been for 20+ years. I don’t believe in god but I’m not against the possibility but I am very much against religion. Truth is, I would like to believe but I can’t. I would love to believe that after this life I will see my family again but I don’t.
Years ago I began looking for answers to find faith. I found a love for religious history which I found fascinating but rather than answers it brought more questions and to me, more evidence that it’s all just the same basic fable that has been going on since the beginning of time to help people cope and offer blind understanding. Historically speaking and knowing how people are, it’s only natural that these beliefs would come about.
For several years now I have been stuck here. Pondering all I have read, all I am told and trying to dig through the mountains of trash for the truth but onyl finding more questions.

I'm glad that you've been searching for an answer. However, are you sure you have been searching in the right places? If you only read books by liberal "scholars" you will only find answers against the Bible. There is a lot of literature in defense of the Bible and of Christianity out there as well. May I direct you to reading Lee Strobel's books? He was a journalist who was convinced that the Bible was wrong, so he set out to prove the Bible false once and for all. After all his research...he became a Christian.

How do you have faith in a book that you believe is no more factual or believable than any tales by the Brothers Grimm?

How do you believe in a book that has essentially ‘borrowed’ older tales and lore?

I'll talk about the Bible here. Let me talk about the formation of Scripture, it's canonicity, and its transmission. I'm not going to answer your questions directly, though, because those aren't real issues for me personally. Also, please remember that I am writing from a Christian worldview. Everyone looks at things from some sort of worldview. What I say will make sense within a Christian worldview (one that has a God) but may not make sense from an agnostic worldview, such as the one you have.

How Scrpture was formed
The process by which various books in the Bible were gathered and recognized as sacred is called canonization. The word canonicity refers to the quality of being "canonical."
1) God inspired the books. The Bible is written by men who were moved and directed by God. It is not a book of human wisdom. These men who did the physical writing were not simply "human tape recorders" but they were active participants who were allowed to use their own writing style and personalities (For example, the poetry of the Psalms), but they ended up writing exactly what the Holy Spirit wanted them to, and no errors crept in at this point.
2) Man recognized God's books. People recognized the authority and inspiration of the message. This is for both the Old Testament and the New Testament. It is important to note that while people recognized the authenticity and authority of the books, they did not give it. The books of the Bible are not inspired and authoritative because they are simply added to a list. They are included in the list (the canon) because they are acknowledged as inspired. It was determined by God and discovered by men.. Theologian James Packer put it this way: "The church no more gave us the New Testament canon than Sir Isaac Newton gives us the force of gravity."
3) Man collected and preserved the books. Throughout a 1500 year period, God periodically spoke to prophets who recorded His words. When the community recognized the divine authority of a book, it was immediately stored and preserved. The canon was not given at one stated time. "The chain of prophets evidently wrote a chain of histories from Genesis to Nehemiah and the writings of these prophets were accepted, one by one, through the centuries," said R. Laird Harris in inspiration and Canonicity of the Bible. As far as the New Testament is concerned, the books were sent to the intended church, would be read and studied, and circulated. After this circulation, they would be collected. It is evident that by the time Second Peter was written, some of the writings of Paul were already gathered and recognized as Scrptured and considered equivalent in terms of authority and inspiration to the Old Testtament.
Tests of Canonicity
1) Is it written by a prophet or apostle? Such an individual was a spokesman for God, and they faithfully declared it unto the people. Frequently miracles accompanied their messages in order to verify their credentials. An apostle (as opposed to a prophet) was a believer who had witnessed Christ's resurrection and was commissioned by Him to be His witness.
2) Was it recieved by the original community? Every book was initially accepted by the people of God because they recognized the prophets of God. The local populace was crucial in the process of canonicity because they alone would know if a writer was an apostle or prophet. the question is not: was it recognized by the religious community four or five hundred years after the books was written?, but was it recognized as inspired by the initial community. The church counceils that met long after th eNT books had been written and recognized as inspired did not grant inspiration but rather provided a final and formal recognition of what was previously discovered in the first century.
3) Is it authentic? No book can contradict truth and be from God. It must agree with past revelation and posses no historical inaccuracies or moral incongruities.
Transmission of Bible documents
Old Testament:
1) Scribes were diligent keepers of Scripture. There were sopherim, meaning counters, who dveloped a device of counting all the words and letters of each book. After copying a particular book, they would count the words and letters and check this tally against the count of the manuscript that was being replicated. If the numbers did not correspond, there was an error. There were also the Masoretes (sometimes speled Massoretes). They numbered the words and letters of every book, numbered the times each letter was used in each book, calculated the middle word and letter of each book, and they calculated the middle letter of the Pentateuch and of the whole Hebrew Bible.
2) There is confirmation of ancient versions. Our present Old Testament (the Masoretic Text) is confirmed by both the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint. Both have very early documentation, and both have independent traditions from the Masoretic text. The Pentateuch remained seperate from the Hebrew text that came through the Sopherim and the Masoretes, but is incredibly similar to the Masoretic text. The great majority of the variations were mainly spelling differences, grammar alterations, and substitutions of Samaritan idioms for Hebrew.
3) There are also tens of thousands of late Hebrew manuscripts as well as the infamous Dead Sea Scrolls.
New Testament:
1) Manuscript families. When all existing manuscripts are compared, there are very few significant differences. While there are differences, "Weestcott and Hort (famous Greek scholars) estimated that only about one-eighth of all the variants had any weight, as most of them are merely mechanical matters such as spelling or style" (Norman L. Geisler, A General Introduction to the Bible: Revised and Expanded.
2) Time. The less time that exists between the extinct original work and the oldest extant manuscripts, the more reliable are the existing copies. Older copies of an original work are more accurate and less tampered with than those of a more recent date. Out of the 5000 Greek manuscripts, 250 date before the eighth century, and some even stretch back to the early second century. The codex bezae (ca. 450) is the oldest bilingual manuscript of th eNT. It contains the four Gospels and Acts. The Codex Alexandrinus (ca. 450) contains the whole OT and most of the NT (except for a few passages). The Codex Veticanus (ca. 325) is probably the oldest manuscript written on vellum and one of the most valuable documents that substantiates the integrity of the original NT (Geisler). It includes most of the OT and much of the Greek NT. The John Ryland Fragment (ca. 94-125 AD) was a small fragment found in Egypt, measuring 3.5 by 2.5 inches and is the oldest known manuscript of th NT. It contains a few verses of the Gospel of John on both sides. It shows that the codes form of the book was already in use, that the Gospel circulated to Egypt a few years after it ws written, proves John's Gospel dates to the first century, and demonstrates our modern text reads almost precisely like the first century text. (Neil R. Lightfoot, How We Got the Bible).

Just to let you know- I'm working off of someone else's research and tried to cite his original sources, but citation is really hard to do in a post like this, so if you want any other citations, I can give you a list.

How do you believe a religion where so many of its tales and beliefs are not its own?

The similarities you may find between Christianity and other religions is usually because either other religions copied Christianity or simply incidental.

How do you believe a religion where its central belief is strikingly similar to Mithraism?

I'm not familiar with Mithraism, so I don't consider myself qualified to answer that part of your question.

How do you have faith in a god (that based on stories from the bible and what’s told to you by the church) you find petty and childish?

I have not found any evidence of God being petty or childish, either in the Bible or in the Church. Can you give me an example of what you mean by this?

How do you believe in a religion with such questionable history?

Are you referring to the Crusades? It's sad what people have done in the name of Christ. What happened during the Crusades was horrible. Christians are just people. People make mistakes. Also, many people call themselves Christians and have no idea what Christianity is about. Also, I do not "believe in a relgion." My faith is not based on people or even the Church as an establishment. People are fallible. I believe in God and in Christ.

How could I follow a god that would allow a child rapist into his grace but condemn a good soul who helps others simply because of different beliefs?

This is talked about within the church as well, and I'll try to answer as best as I can. The "ultimate sin" is the rejection of Jesus Christ. In the end, this is the only sin that "matters." If someone recognizes their sin, asks for forgiveness, sees that Jesus is the only way to salvation, and is changed because of this, all other sins can be and are forgiven, even rape, murder, etc. Also, there are no "good souls" who simply hold other beliefs. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. All are deserving of hell. The question isn't why can't the "good person" go to heaven? The question is: why can I, a sinner, receive God's grace and go to heaven? That question boggles my mind as a Christian, and my only response is praise and thanks.

There are a few beliefs I have come to over the years. That religion and church is unnecessary and often misguided. Corruption and disagreement has run rampant though out history and two Christian churches can have two drastically different views and interpretations. I may be wrong on the gospel but I believe it was Thomas who essentially said the church wasn’t needed, that the light was within each of us, we only need to find it. No big surprised this isn’t mentioned much and never made it into the bible. All religions can’t be entirely right but they can all be wrong.

Again, my faith isn't in religion or in the Church. It's in God and JEsus Christ. Humans often get things wrong, and there are lots of things I can point out that are wrong with the church. But many churches still stick to the Bible and what is written in it. For this reason, I beg you not to reject Christianity simply because of the mistakes of man. Also, the "gospel" of Thomas isn't seen as inspired because it doesn't pass the "tests" I mentioned above. As for your last statement, why not? Why can't a religion be entirely right?

I'm sorry, but I can't respond to the rest of your post at this time. I have carpal tunnel syndrome, and my wrist feels like it's about to fall off right now. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and PM me.

I pray that you will find that which you seek.

 

[Johnnz]

These are a few of the very general questions and thoughts I struggle with as I search for faith (it would take far too long to go into detail so I summed them up). I’m not looking for a discussion on these questions or thoughts, I am simply posting some things *I* am having issues with when searching for faith. This is a sincere post of things that continue to cause me to struggle, things I can’t simply overlook. I have never been one to simply accept someone’s word or take something on blind faith, especially when history, logic and evidence scream at me not to do so.
I haven’t believed in god since I was a kid. I guess I would consider myself a bit of an agnostic and have been for 20+ years. I don’t believe in god but I’m not against the possibility but I am very much against religion. Truth is, I would like to believe but I can’t. I would love to believe that after this life I will see my family again but I don’t.
Years ago I began looking for answers to find faith. I found a love for religious history which I found fascinating but rather than answers it brought more questions and to me, more evidence that it’s all just the same basic fable that has been going on since the beginning of time to help people cope and offer blind understanding. Historically speaking and knowing how people are, it’s only natural that these beliefs would come about.
For several years now I have been stuck here. Pondering all I have read, all I am told and trying to dig through the mountains of trash for the truth but onyl finding more questions.

How do you have faith in a book that you believe is no more factual or believable than any tales by the Brothers Grimm?

You need to look at the evidence that lies behind Christians trusting the biblical account. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel is a good starting point. or, if you have broadband try bethinking.org of veritas.org for some good material.

How do you believe in a book that has essentially ‘borrowed’ older tales and lore?

See above. The issue here is what evidence is there that this has happened? Critics have made this claim for more than 2 1/2 centuries, but have never been able to produce reliable evidence of corruption to the NT account of the Christ to sustain their case against Christianity and the NT in particular.

How do you believe a religion where so many of its tales and beliefs are not its own?

Unless every other belief is totally wrong there must be some overlaps in material.

How do you believe a religion where its central belief is strikingly similar to Mithraism?

As above. But, Christianity is not at all similar to Mithraism.

How do you have faith in a god (that based on stories from the bible and what’s told to you by the church) you find petty and childish?

Why childish?

How do you believe in a religion with such questionable history?

The historical and archaelogy evidence has consistently supported the accuracy of the bible, especially the NT.

How could I follow a god that would allow a child rapist into his grace but condemn a good soul who helps others simply because of different beliefs?

Are you privy to what God has decided in these cases?

These are things I often find myself asking when searching for faith. There is a quote by Thomas Jefferson that I do like and seem to be living.

Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

Good advice. Do it well and you can conclude that Christianity is vey reasonable. I did.

I’ve certainly got the questioning down.

There are a few beliefs I have come to over the years. That religion and church is unnecessary and often misguided. Corruption and disagreement has run rampant though out history and two Christian churches can have two drastically different views and interpretations. I may be wrong on the gospel but I believe it was Thomas who essentially said the church wasn’t needed, that the light was within each of us, we only need to find it. No big surprised this isn’t mentioned much and never made it into the bible. All religions can’t be entirely right but they can all be wrong.

The church is never a perfect reflection of God. It is the reasons for Christian belief, not how well we live them out tht is the real factor to consider.

Something else I’m beginning to be convinced of. If there is a god, he does not get involved nearly as much as many will say, if he even gets involved at all. Far too much in our everyday lives get credited to or blamed on god that I believe he had no part of. To me that explains why bad things happen sometimes. Often seemed a bit arrogant to me that people will claim god personally saved them from a car accident or something while others face far worse.

I basically agree with most of what you said here.

As much as the church and the bible have played a role in the loss of my faith, I think the people played a rather large one as well. To listen to some so called ‘christians’ speak will often turn my stomach. Few know anything of their beliefs (sad fact) and many spout off some of the most vile and hateful things. Things like natural disaster victims deserving what they got and using it as a reason to preach their hatred justified by their misguided beliefs and interpretation.

As I Christian I too cringe at the statements and attitudes of some Christians

Ultimately the biggest conclusion I came to is that I will not find god through the church or the bible and I have to believe that if there were a true god (not the one embellished by man for hundreds of reasons), I wouldn’t need either. Perhaps this is the wrong forum then, or not, after all this is non-christian struggles so I guess I still fit.

The Bible is important. Getting it explained sensibly and relevantly can be a problem.

Sorry, started to get a bit off the topic there, I’ll wrap this up.

I don’t know why I’m writing this. Sort of felt the urge to lately but I didn’t anticipate the difficulty in doing so. This simple post has taken well over an hour to compose and is a mere fraction of the difficulties I face in my struggle. I guess I just wanted to see if there are others who understand what I’m going through, rather than those who have always believed without question. Thank you for taking the time to read. I hope to one day have these issues partially resolved as I fear they will never fully be resolved.

Feel free to PM me if you want some sources of good information about Christian belief and the reasons for them.

John
NZ

 

[eoe]

Twillum have you tried prayer? Would you be willing to (again)?

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy upon me, the sinner.

Faith comes not through contemplation but through action.

 

[epy]

Sometimes a thoughts will run through my head like: "One religion is no better than the other.""Christianity/Judaism was really based on xyz.""How could abc be true when efg?"

When thoughts like that happen I have to stop myself and remind myself what logic, experience, etc. dictate. Most religions have some glimmer of truth, but Jesus is the way.

Sometimes I find belief hard for a moment. I can see why you, not having the luxury of an upbringing(experiences, doctrinal conflicts sorted out at a younger age, etc.) in the doctrine you are seeking, would have trouble with this.

May God be with you through your struggle with these questions.

 

[Shubunkin]

I have never "believed without question" throughout my life, and had quite a rocky road to endure for years. Many churches let me down too. I'm sorry you had to endure much of the same, and it sounds as though your mind is made up. However, I kept asking questions, and studying, and trying to find the truth. Eventually, God revealed himself to me without a doubt, and I must admit that was sweeter to me after all I had been through than if it had happened the first day I became a Christian.

 

[jesussavess]

Hello,​

Thank you for your post.​

I am glad you came here seeking help on how to find Faith in God. That takes courage to step up to the plate .​

To surrender all to God (Christ), one must truthfully speak words of repentance to God.​

There is no particular way to pray. All that is required is true repentance from our hearts and confesson with our mouths; acknowledging to God that we do believe we are indeed sinners & are separated from Him because of our sins.​

Jesus Christ (God, our Creator) lovingly and graciously became Flesh, the incarnation of a man named Jesus Christ, and graciously gave up His life for you and for me, so that through the shedding of His blood we could be washed, redeemed and made whole by His great and humbling sacrifice at Golgotha (Calvary)-The Place of the Skull.​

Jesus went through all the sufferings for us.​

All we need to do now is just truthfully receive the gift that He gave to each of us at the Cross.​

I want to thank you again for asking for help.​

God bless you friend​

And I will be keeping you in all my prayers.​

God is Good, God is Gracious and God is loving.​

He is PEACE,
jesus saves {Have a wonderful night everyone!)​

Romans 10:9-10 "For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED."​

The written promises of God.




​

 

[heron]

Jesus' arrival was predicted and anticipated hundreds of years before Mithraism was recorded. Christianity was the fulfillment of Judaism, which reached back thousands of years before Christ.

You know the song:

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be callèd Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
Much of the first segment of Handel's Messiah was set to the text of Isaiah -- written around 750 BC.

 

[Digit]

Hi Twillum,

I would like you to ponder on a quote that has been at the foremost of my mind recently:

"A man with experience, is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."

Mull it over, and have a look at your questions, or even of those around you, and see what comes to mind.

All the best,
Digit

 

[BigNorsk]

Jesus gave specific instructions for just a case like yours.

Mat 18:1-3 NET.
(1) At that time the disciples came to Jesus saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
(2) He called a child, had him stand among them,
(3) and said, "I tell you the truth, unless you turn around and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven!

I don't know if you've ever experienced the faith the belief of a little child. You can have the child way up in the air on something and if you hold out your hands and say "Come" they come. They don't hesitate, they don't think about things, they just believe.

See you've got yourself so tied up in a knot over why is Christianity somewhat like that religion and why do Christians behave so badly and all that you won't come. You sit there and think.

You are really the proof that Jesus' words are true. You have to become like that little child who just believes and comes when Jesus tells him to come.

If we could argue and fight and work our way through one objection or problem or comment after another and have you believe, it would actually prove Jesus was a liar.

So if you really want faith. I would suggest focusing on Jesus, not everything else, who knows, you just might find it if you give up trying to think your way there.

Marv

 

[heron]

How do you believe a religion where so many of its tales and beliefs are not its own?

This criticism often strikes me as odd -- people will look at parallel stories of different cultures, and make the conclusion that none of them existed because they were so similar.

What if all the cultures knew of the same incidents, then moved outward? Notice how anthropology maps recognize migration.

How do you believe in a religion with such questionable history?

It is a faith that clearly recognizes that even when we make mistakes, the faith still stands and God still has a clear and thoughtful intent. The Bible itself is full of people making mistakes and poor decisions.

We don't stand behind abusive actions, but behind a system that picks us up when we fall.

 

[plmarquette]

how can you believe in BANG-SOUP-& HERE'S Johnny....?

what else is there ?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07465b.htm

 

[SpiritDriven]

These are a few of the very general questions and thoughts I struggle with as I search for faith (it would take far too long to go into detail so I summed them up). I’m not looking for a discussion on these questions or thoughts, I am simply posting some things *I* am having issues with when searching for faith. This is a sincere post of things that continue to cause me to struggle, things I can’t simply overlook. I have never been one to simply accept someone’s word or take something on blind faith, especially when history, logic and evidence scream at me not to do so.
I haven’t believed in god since I was a kid. I guess I would consider myself a bit of an agnostic and have been for 20+ years. I don’t believe in god but I’m not against the possibility but I am very much against religion. Truth is, I would like to believe but I can’t. I would love to believe that after this life I will see my family again but I don’t.
Years ago I began looking for answers to find faith. I found a love for religious history which I found fascinating but rather than answers it brought more questions and to me, more evidence that it’s all just the same basic fable that has been going on since the beginning of time to help people cope and offer blind understanding. Historically speaking and knowing how people are, it’s only natural that these beliefs would come about.
For several years now I have been stuck here. Pondering all I have read, all I am told and trying to dig through the mountains of trash for the truth but onyl finding more questions.

How do you have faith in a book that you believe is no more factual or believable than any tales by the Brothers Grimm?

How do you believe in a book that has essentially ‘borrowed’ older tales and lore?

How do you believe a religion where so many of its tales and beliefs are not its own?

How do you believe a religion where its central belief is strikingly similar to Mithraism?

How do you have faith in a god (that based on stories from the bible and what’s told to you by the church) you find petty and childish?

How do you believe in a religion with such questionable history?

How could I follow a god that would allow a child rapist into his grace but condemn a good soul who helps others simply because of different beliefs?

These are things I often find myself asking when searching for faith. There is a quote by Thomas Jefferson that I do like and seem to be living.

Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

I’ve certainly got the questioning down.

There are a few beliefs I have come to over the years. That religion and church is unnecessary and often misguided. Corruption and disagreement has run rampant though out history and two Christian churches can have two drastically different views and interpretations. I may be wrong on the gospel but I believe it was Thomas who essentially said the church wasn’t needed, that the light was within each of us, we only need to find it. No big surprised this isn’t mentioned much and never made it into the bible. All religions can’t be entirely right but they can all be wrong.

Something else I’m beginning to be convinced of. If there is a god, he does not get involved nearly as much as many will say, if he even gets involved at all. Far too much in our everyday lives get credited to or blamed on god that I believe he had no part of. To me that explains why bad things happen sometimes. Often seemed a bit arrogant to me that people will claim god personally saved them from a car accident or something while others face far worse.

As much as the church and the bible have played a role in the loss of my faith, I think the people played a rather large one as well. To listen to some so called ‘christians’ speak will often turn my stomach. Few know anything of their beliefs (sad fact) and many spout off some of the most vile and hateful things. Things like natural disaster victims deserving what they got and using it as a reason to preach their hatred justified by their misguided beliefs and interpretation.

Ultimately the biggest conclusion I came to is that I will not find god through the church or the bible and I have to believe that if there were a true god (not the one embellished by man for hundreds of reasons), I wouldn’t need either. Perhaps this is the wrong forum then, or not, after all this is non-christian struggles so I guess I still fit.

Sorry, started to get a bit off the topic there, I’ll wrap this up.

I don’t know why I’m writing this. Sort of felt the urge to lately but I didn’t anticipate the difficulty in doing so. This simple post has taken well over an hour to compose and is a mere fraction of the difficulties I face in my struggle. I guess I just wanted to see if there are others who understand what I’m going through, rather than those who have always believed without question. Thank you for taking the time to read. I hope to one day have these issues partially resolved as I fear they will never fully be resolved.

Freind....do not trouble yourself.... I am not going to bore you with scripture....or try to convert you.

What I will tell you is the truth that you will come to know one day for yourself.

Nobody can come to Christ unless the Father who sent him draws him....your turn will come and God will leave you in no doubt about his reality when your turn comes... and your turn will come....in the fullness of Gods own time.

God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4).

The Lord canst do all things, and that no purpose of His can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Grace and Peace to you