Looking for all the missing links

[Jazer]

I don't think I do any more....

In fact, i think i'm losing the will to live!

That is actually the first step is to die to self so you can live for God.

 

[Jazer]

thereby to "prove" the scientists are all wrong.

Not all wrong, just mostly wrong.
Every now and then they get something right.
I just can not remember when the last time was they did that

I remember looking thought the hand outs that my dad use to give his patients. Most of them were articals that he copied out of a magazine. Some he wrote himself. I would say about half the information was useful. The other half was mostly filler to take up space. Not bad though for the most part considering some of it was 50 years old. You would think it would have been more outdated then it was. Still it was time to retire them. Yet here 3500 years have passed and the Bible is still going strong. My brother wrote a text book once, for medical school students. Took him three years to do the research. That was about how long it was before his book was outdated and needed rewritten. But 3500 years and the books of Moses are still going strong. The advice in the Bible is as good as the day the Bible was written.

 

[verysincere]

Seeing how "Good Brother" believes he has demonstrated empirically that hydrological sorting during Noah's Flood explains all or most (??) of the geologic column, I await his explanation of the Haymond Formation:

1) How could 15,000 ALTERNATING layers of sandstone and shale occur in the single year of a GLOBAL FLOOD?

2) For that matter, how could they even have occurred during the 6,000 years since creation?

3) Why do EACH of those 15,000 layers have INDEPENDENT animal borrow systems (which make very evident that the animals had plenty of time to dig their homes and live for extended periods) when all of the formation came into being during the single year of Noah's Flood? Did they use fins and scuba gear?

There are many more questions which a Global Flood hypothesis needs to address. But those three would be a good start.

Like the topic of ring species, Answers in Genesis, ICR, and Creation.com stay silent about the main questions of the Haymond Formation ---but AiG at least tries to divert attention to an unrelated question which in no way addresses the many ways in which for formation defies a global flood interpretation.

 

[verysincere]

No, you made a comment that indicated that geologist just make stuff up as they do their field work. I hope you really don't feel that way, because nothing could be further from the truth.

So Good Brother truly believes that geologists simply make things up as they do their work. I wonder, do youth pastors do the same thing? I've seen plenty of evidence in these threads that some do. I do know that if a geologist publishes things after simply "making things up", others in the field will quickly critique and debunk it. Does the same peer-review process prevent the problem of youth pastors simply making things up and publishing them? How about preventing them from teaching those made up ideas to young people?

Do peers in the youth ministry field stop them from from teaching nonsense that they just made up?

.

 

[juvenissun]

You previously made a comment about index fossils which is completely incorrect, at least the way you presented it.


Thus, I would truly like to see what "your" definition of an index fossils is. Subsiquent to that I will be glad to render what constitutes an index fossil, as described in the mainstream scientific literature, which I suspect is going to be somewhat different.

What is wrong with what I said?

 

[juvenissun]

Seeing how "Good Brother" believes he has demonstrated empirically that hydrological sorting during Noah's Flood explains all or most (??) of the geologic column, I await his explanation of the Haymond Formation:

1) How could 15,000 ALTERNATING layers of sandstone and shale occur in the single year of a GLOBAL FLOOD?

2) For that matter, how could they even have occurred during the 6,000 years since creation?

3) Why do EACH of those 15,000 layers have INDEPENDENT animal borrow systems (which make very evident that the animals had plenty of time to dig their homes and live for extended periods) when all of the formation came into being during the single year of Noah's Flood? Did they use fins and scuba gear?

There are many more questions which a Global Flood hypothesis needs to address. But those three would be a good start.

Like the topic of ring species, Answers in Genesis, ICR, and Creation.com stay silent about the main questions of the Haymond Formation ---but AiG at least tries to divert attention to an unrelated question which in no way addresses the many ways in which for formation defies a global flood interpretation.

In the Haymond Formation thread, you ran away. Here you bring it up again and I will resume my old question to you:

Why not? Could you find a more reasonable mechanism to make those layers?

 

[good brother]

So Good Brother truly believes that geologists simply make things up as they do their work. I wonder, do youth pastors do the same thing? I've seen plenty of evidence in these threads that some do. I do know that if a geologist publishes things after simply "making things up", others in the field will quickly critique and debunk it. Does the same peer-review process prevent the problem of youth pastors simply making things up and publishing them? How about preventing them from teaching those made up ideas to young people?

Do peers in the youth ministry field stop them from from teaching nonsense that they just made up?

.

Since you refuse to tell me anything about you except that you expect me to trust that you can do just about anything outside of walking on water, maybe you'll answer one tiny question for me. Would you mind sharing your testimony of when you accepted Jesus Christ as your LORD and Savior? You can feel free to PM me if you would like as to not derail this thread. I love to hear those precious stories of when other people found the Savior. I am sure other people would like to hear it too, but I won't ask you to bear it out here as it may be tough.

God bless you as I wait to hear your story.

In Christ, GB

 

[Guy1]

Not all wrong, just mostly wrong.
Every now and then they get something right.
I just can not remember when the last time was they did that

I remember looking thought the hand outs that my dad use to give his patients. Most of them were articals that he copied out of a magazine. Some he wrote himself. I would say about half the information was useful. The other half was mostly filler to take up space. Not bad though for the most part considering some of it was 50 years old. You would think it would have been more outdated then it was. Still it was time to retire them. Yet here 3500 years have passed and the Bible is still going strong. My brother wrote a text book once, for medical school students. Took him three years to do the research. That was about how long it was before his book was outdated and needed rewritten. But 3500 years and the books of Moses are still going strong. The advice in the Bible is as good as the day the Bible was written.

You're basically complaining that science corrects itself and expands it's own horizons, while the bible is static (Not really but it's what you think).

 

[verysincere]

In the Haymond Formation thread, you ran away. Here you bring it up again and I will resume my old question to you:

Why not? Could you find a more reasonable mechanism to make those layers?

What "more reasonable mechanism" is that? Are you saying that a Global Flood created the 15,000 layers of the Haymond Formation? If yes, I would love to hear more about your theory of how a one-year flood would do that.

Are you asking me how geologists explain the formation? I'm usually not interested of doing someone else's research for them, but I'm game if you will FIRST provide a "reasonable mechanism" for a Global Flood could do it.

(And at my age, I'm no longer able to do much "running away". But if you posted something significant on this topic, I'm quite willing to follow a link to see what you wrote. If you posted an explanation of how a Global Flood produced the Haymond Formation, I didn't see it.)

 

[juvenissun]

What "more reasonable mechanism" is that? Are you saying that a Global Flood created the 15,000 layers of the Haymond Formation? If yes, I would love to hear more about your theory of how a one-year flood would do that.

Are you asking me how geologists explain the formation? I'm usually not interested of doing someone else's research for them, but I'm game if you will FIRST provide a "reasonable mechanism" for a Global Flood could do it.

(And at my age, I'm no longer able to do much "running away". But if you posted something significant on this topic, I'm quite willing to follow a link to see what you wrote. If you posted an explanation of how a Global Flood produced the Haymond Formation, I didn't see it.)

I don't think you know much about sedimentology. So, rather than giving you the whole idea, I just want to confirm that you know the basics:

If we see a thin layer of mud deposit laid over a think layer of sand deposit with a clear-cut contact like what's shown in the Heymond Fm, what does the combination say to you about the sedimentary process? Here are some hints: source of material? depositional environment? time needed? The answer does not have to be long, three lines of text would be good enough.

 

[NailsII]

That is actually the first step is to die to self so you can live for God.

God wouldn't have me - he says so many times in his book.

I see no point in sucking up to a celestial dictator, if I am to be damned I will be damned for what I am and judged on my works.

I give to charity (including being a blood donor for which you only get a cup of tea & a biscuit in the UK), work hard to provide for my family and generally try to live the best life that I can - for me and those around me.

If that is worth less than someone who cons millions into funding their playboy style tax-exempt lifestyle while throwing a few 'alleluias' around, then so be it.

I am what I am, and I see no point in pretending to love a god whose existance is, at best, questionable.

 

[verysincere]

I'm still waiting on a Young Earth Creationist explanation for the 15,000 layers of alternating sandstone & shale of the Haymond Formation, each layer filled with its own self-contained network of animal burrows. To construct those 15,000 independent layers of independent burrows, did the animals wear scuba gear and fins?

I know, that's a hard one. So after you answer that one, you can address an easier one that you should have figured out long ago: How about just THREE of your best examples of evidence which demonstrates that there was a GLOBAL FLOOD and that that is the best explanation for all three sites/phenomena.

And if you plan to go with the same lame "Mt. St. Helens and The Grand Canyon" and polystrate fossils, you actually have to explain WHY they suggest a global flood. And by the way, "Mt. St. Helens was an example of catastrophic event: is a nearly content-free factoid.

.

 

[Jazer]

I see no point in sucking up to a celestial dictator,

If you see no point in it, then why do you suck up to Satan?
Why do you choose to follow that loser in his rebellion against God?

 

[Jazer]

I'm still waiting on a Young Earth Creationist explanation for the 15,000 layers of alternating sandstone & shale of the Haymond Formation

Why would you expect a YEC to explain Cambrian period formations? YEC only deals with the last 6,000 years. Whatever happened before that, they have no knowledge of. You need to talk to an OEC or a geologist to explain something that happened back then. Or perhaps a creation scientiest like yourself.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Why would you expect a YEC to explain Cambrian period formations? YEC only deals with the last 6,000 years. Whatever happened before that, they have no knowledge of. You need to talk to an OEC or a geologist to explain something that happened back then. Or perhaps a creation scientiest like yourself.

A YEC says that there was no history before 6000 years. In which case they need to explain how there can be 15,000 layers of alternating sediments all with their own animal burrows in a young earth.

 

[Jazer]

A YEC says that there was no history before 6000 years.

Well whatever, the end result is the same. They have nothing to say about anything that takes place before 6,000 years ago. If it never happened in their opinion, then they have nothing to say about it. So they are going to claim that your in error and your evidence is not valid.

In which case they need to explain how there can be 15,000 layers of alternating sediments all with their own animal burrows in a young earth.

Their explaination is that you do not know what your talking about.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Well whatever, the end result is the same. They have nothing to say about anything that takes place before 6,000 years ago. If it never happened in their opinion, then they have nothing to say about it. So they are going to claim that your in error and your evidence is not valid.

If they are going to claim that the world is 6000 years old, then they had better say plenty about evidence that the world is much older. Otherwise it looks like their young earth theory has overwhelming evidence against it, and the YEC have absolutely no answer to it.

And simply gainsaying any evidence, saying it's not valid without a sophisticated argument as to why it's not valid, is hardly a convincing argument.

Imagine a debate where one side produces huge amounts of well chosen, presented, and argued evidence. And the other side just keeps on saying "no, it's wrong, the evidence is not valid" without any reasoned argument as to why it's not valid. Who is going to be voted the winner in that debate?

 

[juvenissun]

Why would you expect a YEC to explain Cambrian period formations? YEC only deals with the last 6,000 years. Whatever happened before that, they have no knowledge of. You need to talk to an OEC or a geologist to explain something that happened back then. Or perhaps a creation scientiest like yourself.

I am very disappointed with that person. He is one not worthy to talk to.

 

[NailsII]

If you see no point in it, then why do you suck up to Satan?

AS an atheist I reject all gods.
Satan would have to have god-like powers at least, so I reject him as well.

Why do you choose to follow that loser in his rebellion against God?

If satan advocates charity work and donations, giving blood, working hard to be the best i can, looking after my family to ensure they are the best that they can be, asking for and giving respect...

Then I am a 'cultural satanist' (but I still deny his existance)

Did satan advocate slavery?
Subjugation of women?
Denying equal rights for all, based on skin colour or sexual orientation?
Did he command his followers to commit mas murder?

No.

Who did commit the most evil of acts, which are recorded as fact in holy text?

So which one of us is on the path to peace, love and harmony?

 

[Jazer]

If they are going to claim that the world is 6000 years old, then they had better say plenty about evidence that the world is much older.

The Bible is not Natural History. The Bible is Written Recorded History. Although we are told that both the fossils and the ten commandments are etched in stone. So they both share that in common. The rest of the Bible Moses wrote on papyrus. So that does not last as long. Some of the fossils, like from the Cambrian can go back a lot longer then 6,000 years. It was Darwin's good friend Lyell that some people consider to be the Father of Geology. Even though like Darwin he was a botanist. Only Lyell remained a Creationist all his life and Darwin did not talk much about Creationism.