Looking at pieces in Daniel

[Fireinfolding]

Ok Im just posting this (leaving out revelation type stuff here) to get a basic foundation for Daniel and find certain things (here and there) that I am looking at or might have question about. Its not put together to teach nobody but after a few questions I might have (and where to look) so I can work it out (from where I am comfortable working it from).

I start out in odd places I know, I have several start ups at different places I could drive you nuts. But I just wanted to post these parts (so I would have my own reference points)

Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.


Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.


Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.


Therefore...


Dan 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.


Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.


Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.


Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.


Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.


Dan 11:42 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.


2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (Add 2The-3-7)

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


1Thes 4:14 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


Again...voice of an archangel


1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

And...

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.Jude 1:9

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Time of trouble above, and great tribulation here

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Mat 22:24 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Back here...

Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Is he answering for one or both? Looks like "unto" just one (the sanctuary) no?

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


So 2300 days, then says except those days be shortened


Mat 22:24 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
　
Saying back here...

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Counting from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and to the abomination that maketh desolate set up is 1290 days


Whereas here 1335 days


Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Is ^this^ where the difference is? Or rather a specific number of days "unto" but from which point?

Whats this pointing to... why an AND THEN (here)?

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

We know this preceeds it...

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction...

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days no flesh should be saved...


Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:24-25 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


I'll most likely ask on this later a little later more quoting sections (whether rightly or wrongly connected yet) and ask for help, preferably using scripture only (showing how they interlock)

I'll be back to this

 

[Fireinfolding]

I think I got some mixture in there, and I didnt delete out everything I wanted to delete out of it looking back at it.

But heres one question...On the days here...

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.Jude 1:9

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Time of trouble above, and great tribulation here

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Mat 22:24 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Back here...

Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Is he answering for one or both? Looks like "unto" just one (the sanctuary) no?

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


So 2300 days, then says except those days be shortened


Mat 22:24 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
　
Saying back here...

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Counting from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and to the abomination that maketh desolate set up is 1290 days


Whereas here 1335 days


Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Is ^this^ where the difference is? Or rather a specific number of days "unto" but from which point?

Whats this pointing to... why an AND THEN (here)?

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

We know this preceeds it...

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction...

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days no flesh should be saved...

Where to start figuring?:o


Dan 8:13 How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The daily sacrifice AND the transgression of desolation to give BOTH the above 2300 days

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So this is a bit more specific (and from a certain point) from the time the daily sacrifice is TAKEN away TO the abomination and the number of days (here) is 1290

I think I need a calculator...


SpiritInTruth where are you?

Can you make better sense, and then point out where the mix is incorrect (as far as you can tell)?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I'll most likely ask on this later a little later more quoting sections (whether rightly or wrongly connected yet) and ask for help, preferably using scripture only (showing how they interlock)

I'll be back to this[/quote]



Its important to keep in mind Fire that there are 2 separate events forcast in the book of Daniel. Just as there are 2 separate tribulation periods. Just as it is written tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, first to the Jew, and then also to the Gentile.

Even though one event is a reflection of the other, it is important to remember that the abomination of desolation has already been set up, just as Jerusalem has already been surrounded by armies and made a desolation.

So many parts of that prophecy has already been fulfilled from Christ crucified, to Jerusalem destroyed in 70 a.d.

So it is important to rightly divide the 2 events, and times prophesied for the one event, and the events and times prophesied for the other.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Fire I think if you take your study piece by piece it might make more sense to you.

For instance figure out what the daily sacrifice is.

What caused the abomination of desolation?

What was the host given against the daily sacrifice?

What is the sanctuary of strength, and how was it trodden down? etc.

You've got alot on your plate there at one time, I think its easier to digest in small portions.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Its important to keep in mind Fire that there are 2 separate events forcast in the book of Daniel. Just as there are 2 separate tribulation periods. Just as it is written tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, first to the Jew, and then also to the Gentile.

Even though one event is a reflection of the other, it is important to remember that the abomination of desolation has already been set up, just as Jerusalem has already been surrounded by armies and made a desolation.

So many parts of that prophecy has already been fulfilled from Christ crucified, to Jerusalem destroyed in 70 a.d.

So it is important to rightly divide the 2 events, and times prophesied for the one event, and the events and times prophesied for the other.

I find it very important bro which is why I am here asking for you kiddo. You know I am a fencesitter on this stuff, so I have a clean slate, meaning I really dont take up a sword to any angle, and you know I dance around it because I wont touch the numbers (because they arent my thing) thats why I added these in rather splicy to see various connections but nothing yet connected.

After I can get past the numbers I know I will have less of a hard time with the other things, I have them like boxed up under separate headings waiting for the little connector things on the ends of them (link it here) and (link it there).

Can you rip it apart as you would and break it down and build it back up as you might see where each link to?

I'd like that When you have anytime to invest (and dont worry about little intricate details or anything) that (for me would complicate it for me). But if you did a swoop over and I could catch that first (with an ah ha moment) after that the other stuff will typically fall right in.

Have a study on it you could share, Ive heard so many (being exposed to them around here) but some folks are right on (or at least I feel they are) in part but it seems we all have this tendency to go beyond our measure and the whole thing becomes, nah... I dont think so.

Know what I mean?

Anyhow, this is open and within it are places I have questions on, and I usually slide and move the verses till they fit (which above no) but thats what Im waiting on. Theres too many layers yet, one at a time (or so I think I can do it that way lol)

God bless you brother

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Tell ya what Fire, pick one verse, or topic out of all that you listed in your thread and I will show you what I see in it. And if you like, we can take it piece by piece.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Fire I think if you take your study piece by piece it might make more sense to you.

For instance figure out what the daily sacrifice is.

What caused the abomination of desolation?

What was the host given against the daily sacrifice?

What is the sanctuary of strength, and how was it trodden down? etc.

You've got alot on your plate there at one time, I think its easier to digest in small portions.

Do a post bro (even here it doesnt matter) on each one so I have a place to cross check it, can you bro?


I have pieces of them scattered, but mostly them on Messiah or on what I am TRYING to fit one place which SOME APPEAR to fit then I so cant make it work I am so off, I have them worded "every which way" (so wherever I MIGHT have nailed it I can just slide it in) and delete the other (or move it to where it might belong but honestly Im guessing lol

I might as well play spin the bottle (Im hopeless here lol)


For example...(the wording is too similiar for me)


Dan 9:36 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:


John 16:7 I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away...


Because the "prince" is mention here at this marker too...

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


....and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

Luke 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Ephes 2:2... according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


Ephes 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


...and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


1Cr 10:11...and they are written for our admonition, upon whom **the ends** of the world are come.

See how the wording mirrors ?

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

....and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

....and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, (dont fit with the next)

Mat 23:28 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


...even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


1Thes 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Yet he said....

Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

------------

I cant find my starting points and ending points in Daniel because I get dislexic with numbers all the time


Zach 13:3 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: (Mat 26:56) Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Psalm 17:13....from the wicked, which is thy sword:

Job 16:11 God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked.

Mark 14:48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?

Acts 6:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Same wording "prince" (at that marker)

Luke 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Ephes 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


-------------

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;


So Im like, What are Seventy weeks for? How to divide it?


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,

Is it speaking to this or otherwise to it?

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


It appears to be speaking after the same here...


Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Only because, the verse following is...


....and to make an end of sins,


Which makes me think of this...


Heb 9:26... but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Which is followed by ...

....and to make reconciliation for iniquity,


Which reminds me again of this...


2Cr 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


The following verse after that is this...


...and to bring in everlasting righteousness

Whereas...


Heb 7:1 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Showing both the "To bring in" and "the bringing in" (above)

The following verse... not sure here...cant place the wording

.... and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Whereas it says here of the vision and the sealing this...

Isaiah 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed


Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

1Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

1Cr 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

I mean thats how my notes look Im all over the place with little pieces here (and there) and when it comes to Daniel I might as well be "hands off" here, who am I kidding?

And I cant divide it aright, Im just about to give up (forever) and believe I can never know, its that incredibly difficult (for me).

And probrobly alot of the reason I stay standoffish about certain things, even moreso because of this (and nothing out there is helping me) just makes me more confused... might be a good idea to throw in the towel, Im not getting better at any kind of eschatology type study, its not in me.

But what you have post bro, your much more precise then I can ever be. Im just too scattered brained to do this lol

 

[Fireinfolding]

Tell ya what Fire, pick one verse, or topic out of all that you listed in your thread and I will show you what I see in it. And if you like, we can take it piece by piece.

Can you pick one I am screwing up the most here?

Or pick one you know you can show the best?

I'll leave it to you, or just pick out of the list you post, I need a foundation here, so anywhere from the bottom

What say you bro?

Im still here and still dont know, so what can I possible know about where to start?

I trust your judgment on where to start (just remember as simply as you can). You always get hrough to me that way

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Most of what you posted there is about the first coming of Christ, the anointing of the Most High, Messiah being cut off(crucified), the judgement of the world(flood waters) the prince of this world(Satan cast down) with a host given against the daily sacrifice(Israel) The heavenly sanctuary is cleansed, and the abomination that causes desolation set up(house is left to you desolate.)

The 2300 days pertain to the 70 weeks of Daniel,(which are not literal days) which is a sign of time given in the first coming of Christ. I wrote a thread on it a while back if you care to read it, but I know how you are with numbers. LOL

But this last post was alot more in order than the first ones. Like I said if you want to discuss a single verse at a time we can. But for me to respond to each individual verse you posted would take quite some time, and be very lengthy.

You know how a single verse of scripture can be shown in a multitude of other verses. But I 'll be happy to help with the things you don't understand as best I can.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Most of what you posted there is about the first coming of Christ, the anointing of the Most High, Messiah being cut off(crucified), the judgement of the world(flood waters) the prince of this world(Satan cast down) with a host given against the daily sacrifice(Israel) The heavenly sanctuary is cleansed, and the abomination that causes desolation set up(house is left to you desolate.)

Ok so Im sorta catching some of the first coming of Christ a little, and for judgment he was come. The flood waters (there) would they be a figure of ungodly men? The host given against the daily sacrifice would be what against Christ/Isreal? Just trying to make sure Im on the right track here.

Probrobly what I wasnt catching was the sanctuary, for example Daniel speaks of the people of the prince coming to destroy (two) the city and the sanctuary whereas Jesus said, "destroy this temple" (his body) whereas they diverted to understanding him as speaking of the temple that took 46 years to build. When he appeared to be speaking of that it was of the stones cast down of those great buildings (the disciples pointed out). So the picture is kind of cloudy there.

So would the abomination that causes desolation (in you house being left to you desolate) how does the timing associated in Daniel to that fit in better? Theres a number of days mentioned in connection to it isnt there?

The 2300 days pertain to the 70 weeks of Daniel,(which are not literal days) which is a sign of time given in the first coming of Christ. I wrote a thread on it a while back if you care to read it, but I know how you are with numbers. LOL

Im afraid to look You were pretty heavy handed with those numbers back in the day lol. I'll see if I can find it (and not go into brain freeze) lol

But this last post was alot more in order than the first ones. Like I said if you want to discuss a single verse at a time we can. But for me to respond to each individual verse you posted would take quite some time, and be very lengthy.

You know how a single verse of scripture can be shown in a multitude of other verses. But I 'll be happy to help with the things you don't understand as best I can.

I guess the best place is to make sure I am divided His first coming correctly and according to the wording rightly, I wish I can just hand you my papers and you just drive a big slash through each one that dont fit with a check (here) notation on it

If I "pretty much" seem to be catching that part (Messiah coming and being cut off) I suppose anything it speaks of after.

Im pretty easy though the whole thing dont need to be explained to me, just 3-6 scriptures where I can hear it (and where it might be going) then I will feel around some more and then come back and bug ya again lol

Now to find your post

 

[Fireinfolding]

Ok I found the post you were talking about. And this one was really helpful InSpiritInTruth there wasnt all those numbers in it (well at least not to any extreme at all)

Im going to post this here so I dont have to go through all those posts to sift through them again, I included Ronalds too, you both were in agreement and everything he lists I have found so I am putting them both up.

This was really well done

I hear people talking about how the prophecies of Daniel are yet to be fulfilled, including the 70 weeks of Daniel. But people need to understand that if these prophecies were not already fulfilled, then believers would still be in their sins.

In Daniel 9:24 we are told; "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon the holy city, to finish the transgression, and (to make an end of sins), and to make ( reconciliation for iniquity), and bring in (everlasting righteousness), and seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (anoint the most Holy.)"

Think about it, who was the One who made an end of sins? It was Christ crucified on the cross. Who was the One who has forgiven us for our iniquities, and has (reconciled us to God) it is the Lamb of God. Who was the One that( God anointed King,) and gave His Spirit to without measure, and proclaimed, " This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
If people say this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, then they deny this very Truth that Christ has already come and died for our sins.

　

The last week is a 70 year period from the birth of Jesus, to the abomination of desolation being set up.

Daniel 9:27; " And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ( 1 week): and in the ( midst of the week) he shall cause (the sacrifice) and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consumption, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Jesus was a sign of that daily sacrifice, just as Paul said; " In Christ I die daily."

Jesus was crucified in (the midst) of that last 70 year week. From the time the Messiah was ( cut off ) to the time that the abomination of Desolation would be set up was 62 weeks.

In Daniel 8:13-14 we are told; "How long shall be the vision concerning the (daily sacrifice), and the (transgression of desolation), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto 2,300 days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

If you divide 2300 days by 62 weeks you will get 37 years. After the Messiah was cut off at the age of 33, it would be 37 years later that Jerusalem would be destroyed, and the abomination of Desolation would take place in the year 70 ad.
There is no lost week in this prophecy.

You two agree posted Ronalds here...

You are right in saying the 70 weeks of Daniel is history!
I would like to refute the Gap Theory though to add to your post.

Many prophecies in Daniel have been fulfilled, but not end-time prophecies such as in Daniel 12.

Concerning Daniel 9:24-27, let me share my view with you.

There will be no future Temple built or sacrifices based on these verses. Since we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, God would not necessitate some new temple or sacrifices in the future for Israel. He wants to soon remove their blindness and I don't think this is part of the process. He, Himself, set up the destruction of the last temple. He sets up desolations to come also.

In Daniel 9:24, Gabriel explains clearly that the 70 weeks of years are in fact 70 weeks of years, not 70 plus a gap of 283 weeks of years... NO GAP! I used to be a proponent of this early in my studies.

It also refers to:

1. Israel ("your people")
2. Jerusalem ("holy city')
3. a finish to transgressions ( by Grace through faith ... the Law is abolished
4. putting an end to sin (He defeated the power of sin over believers; Law replaced with Grace)
5. atoning for sins (He paid the price)
6. bringing in everlasting righteousness (righteousness is imputed to all who believe)
7. sealing up prophecy (After the Bible was complete, no more was needed)
8. anointing the most holy (or holy of holies)

Daniel 9:27 refers to the Messiah . . .PERIOD!

Some scholars take the events described in vs. 27 to be in chronological order of the end time allusions of vs 26. *If you interpret Revelation that way, you will get confused. Gabriel was accurate about 70 weeks of years. There is a 7- year period in the end time tribulation but it is not the 70th week of Daniel, just a different time period/ week of years.

Daniel 9:26 just alludes beyond the Temple destruction in 70 AD to wars, desolations in the future, then gets back to the topic and time period in vs. 27. The Messiah is cut off in the middle of the week. It's not a full week, doesn't have to be, it's inclusive and finished. Christ sets up the destruction of Jerusalem and informs the disciples in Matt. 24 of what He has planned.

"... I make peace and create evil (or prepare evil / troubles): I the Lord do all theses things.Is. 45:7

"...and for the outspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." KJV (Ezek 33:29 supports this too.)

God is in control, This is His wrath at work. He sets up these
judgments/desolations. He allows abominations for a purpose. Who are the desolate? Are not those who do not have the Lord, desolate? Actually in the ASV vs. 27 says, "...shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate."

Amen Ronald, Truly you have not been drinking from those polluted waters. I fully understand that not all of the prophecies given in Daniel have been fulfilled, but the most important one has, and that is Christ crucified, and resurrected.

Those who try to make these prophecies of the Messiah, and the abomination of desolation determined upon the desolate to fit into some future time period in the end of days take away from this most important truth.

But I also understand by the Spirit, that scripture past, will also reflect on prophecy future.

A new decree was given to rebuild the Temple by Jesus when he said; tear down this Temple, and I shall raise it up in 3 days. Jesus was not talking about a literal temple, and neither was He just speaking of his physical body.

Jesus was talking about his true Body, and his true Temple, which are the saints of the Most High God. Keep in mind, Jesus is that chief corner stone, but we who are ( in Christ) shall make up the rest of this Holy Temple. And in 3 days we shall be perfected.

The heavenly sanctuary has already been cleansed when Christ conquered death. Daniel 8:14 says that it shall be 2,300 until the sanctuary is cleansed.

If you look to the law of purification of the man-child seen in Leviticus 12:4 you will see how this time is determined. Notice after 7 times, in order to complete the blood of purification it would be 33 days more. This sign was shown in the age of Jesus when he was crucified. If you take that 2,300 days mentioned to cleanse the sanctuary and divide it by 33 days you will get the 62 weeks plus the 7 weeks, or 69 weeks shown in scripture. Notice 2,300 days divided by 33= 69.69 weeks; showing how the Messiah was cut off in the midst of the 70th week.

Jesus confirmed this cleansing of this heavenly sanctuary in John 12:31 when he said; "Now is the judgment of this world, ( now) shall the prince of this world( be cast out.") Satan was not cast out of this world, but he was (cast down) to this world. This is the prince, and the host that was given against the daily sacrifice. This is when those spiritual flood waters would be released upon the earth as seen in Daniel 9:26.
Jesus said in John 14:30; "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the (prince of this world comes,) and has nothing in me."

But even though the heavenly sanctuary has already been cleansed, the earthly sanctuary is yet to be cleansed.

The Messiah being (cut off,) the One who's name is the BRANCH, was not only (cut off,) or sacrificed for the sins of the world, but Jesus was also (a sign) given for the children of Israel. Thus showing in his body how the natural branches of the Olive tree would be (cut off) so that the unnatural branches of the Gentiles could be grafted into the Tree.

Luke 2:34;"And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, (this child) is set for the (fall) and ( rising again) of many in Israel; and for ( a sign) which shall be spoken against;"

If this prophecy of the Messiah being (cut off) did not come to pass, it would be like saying that Jerusalem was never destroyed, or like saying Israel was never (cut off) as a Nation after the abomination of desolation took place in 70 AD.

The( sign) given has been fulfilled, just as the prophecy of the Messiah being( cut off) has also been fulfilled.

　
　
There you go, just posting it here to refer to

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The sanctuary has a threefold meaning. It is first shown in the earthly tabernacle of the law of Moses. It was then shown in the Body of Jesus(tear down this temple).

But the one most people miss is the most important one, which is who Christ is (Word of God) the Sanctuary of our strength.

Heres a couple of verses to show this point.

Zephaniah 3:4
Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

In Daniel 8:12 we are told; "And a host was given him(Satan) against the daily sacrifice(Israel) by reason of transgression, and it(spirit of anti-christ) cast the truth to the ground; and practised, and prospered."

To pollute the sanctuary is also to pollute the Word of God by teaching lies.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is the thread I was talking about Fire.

70 weeks of Daniel by the Numbers
In Daniel 9:24 Daniel was told 70 weeks were determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, to finish the transgression, and make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Many people try to move this prophecy forward to somewhere in the future, but plainly this prophecy is speaking of Jesus, and the sacrifice he made for our sins. In this prophecy we are given several numbers to go by to confirm this time line given to Daniel.

If we go back to Daniel 8:14 we see there was given the sign of 2300 days to cleanse the sanctuary. With this time, and the prophecy given of 70 weeks we are then able to discern this time. But in order to unlock the key to this time line we must go to the law of purification of the man-child as seen in Leviticus 12:4.

In this purification process we see a woman who has concieved a man-child, who would also be unclean 7 days, according to the days of her separation. These 7 days are like 7 times that would be fulfilled before the birth of Jesus. In Matthew 1:17 we see there was 3 groups of 14 generations that led up to the birth of Jesus, or 42 total generations. This 7 times would be fulfilled by the sign of 7x6=42 generations.

But in the law in Leviticus 12:4 we see the woman was to continue in the blood of her purifying for 33 more days to be clean. Keep in mind that Jesus was crucified at the age of 33. This sign of 7+33 was also shown to us in David in 1 Kings 2:11. Here we see David reigned in Hebron for 7 years, and in Jerusalem he reigned 33 years.

Now that we have the numbers we need to figure out this time line, let us look to the start date of the prophecy. We are told in Daniel 9:25 that from the going forth of the commandment given to rebuild Jerusalem to the Messiah would be 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 69 weeks total. This decree to rebuild Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes to Ezra in 457 BC., which shown in Ezra 7:13.

If we take 457+33 we will get 490 years, which is 70 weeks x 7= 490. But lets break this down by the numbers to see if this fits. In Daniel 8:13 we were shown 2300 days, and in Daniel 9:25 we are told 69 weeks. If you divide 2300 by the 33 days of purification you will get 69 weeks.

In Daniel 9:26 we are told from the time of the Messiah being cut off, to the destruction of the city and the sanctuary would be 62 weeks. If you divide the 2300 days by 62 weeks you will get 37. Just as the city of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.; which was 37 years after the Messiah was cut off.

This sign can also be shown by multiplying 70 x 33 = 2310; and then subtracting 62 x 33 = 2046. This would be 2310-2046= 264; then divide that 264 by 7 times, and you get the 37 years between Christ crucified and the abomination of desolation.

By this I am convinced this prophecy given to Daniel was fulfilled in the first coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[granpa]

Documentary hypothesis/Revelation - Religion-wiki

 

[Fireinfolding]

The sanctuary has a threefold meaning. It is first shown in the earthly tabernacle of the law of Moses. It was then shown in the Body of Jesus(tear down this temple).

But the one most people miss is the most important one, which is who Christ is (Word of God) the Sanctuary of our strength.

Heres a couple of verses to show this point.

Zephaniah 3:4
Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

In Daniel 8:12 we are told; "And a host was given him(Satan) against the daily sacrifice(Israel) by reason of transgression, and it(spirit of anti-christ) cast the truth to the ground; and practised, and prospered."

To pollute the sanctuary is also to pollute the Word of God by teaching lies.

Ok this is good bro, I can catch this (and in the way you are showing it). What I was thinking of (well in my mind) was how Jesus (The Word of God) said I sanctify (cleanse) myself, Him as the sanctuary, or so I was thinking around that (kinda) but maybe I was off and running in a wrong direction there. I suppose even there (hard to tell) because I can catch the picture through the veil (which is also his flesh though isnt it?).

I suppose coming in at it through Daniel I must change (somewhat) in what respect I am reading it.

I do like the way you put that, because I was like how can you pullute the sanctuary (and make it Him) so to speak?

Thanks bro, that was a big help

God bless you

 

[Fireinfolding]

Here is the thread I was talking about Fire.

70 weeks of Daniel by the Numbers
In Daniel 9:24 Daniel was told 70 weeks were determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, to finish the transgression, and make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Many people try to move this prophecy forward to somewhere in the future, but plainly this prophecy is speaking of Jesus, and the sacrifice he made for our sins. In this prophecy we are given several numbers to go by to confirm this time line given to Daniel.

If we go back to Daniel 8:14 we see there was given the sign of 2300 days to cleanse the sanctuary. With this time, and the prophecy given of 70 weeks we are then able to discern this time. But in order to unlock the key to this time line we must go to the law of purification of the man-child as seen in Leviticus 12:4.

In this purification process we see a woman who has concieved a man-child, who would also be unclean 7 days, according to the days of her separation. These 7 days are like 7 times that would be fulfilled before the birth of Jesus. In Matthew 1:17 we see there was 3 groups of 14 generations that led up to the birth of Jesus, or 42 total generations. This 7 times would be fulfilled by the sign of 7x6=42 generations.

But in the law in Leviticus 12:4 we see the woman was to continue in the blood of her purifying for 33 more days to be clean. Keep in mind that Jesus was crucified at the age of 33. This sign of 7+33 was also shown to us in David in 1 Kings 2:11. Here we see David reigned in Hebron for 7 years, and in Jerusalem he reigned 33 years.

Now that we have the numbers we need to figure out this time line, let us look to the start date of the prophecy. We are told in Daniel 9:25 that from the going forth of the commandment given to rebuild Jerusalem to the Messiah would be 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 69 weeks total. This decree to rebuild Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes to Ezra in 457 BC., which shown in Ezra 7:13.

If we take 457+33 we will get 490 years, which is 70 weeks x 7= 490. But lets break this down by the numbers to see if this fits. In Daniel 8:13 we were shown 2300 days, and in Daniel 9:25 we are told 69 weeks. If you divide 2300 by the 33 days of purification you will get 69 weeks.

In Daniel 9:26 we are told from the time of the Messiah being cut off, to the destruction of the city and the sanctuary would be 62 weeks. If you divide the 2300 days by 62 weeks you will get 37. Just as the city of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.; which was 37 years after the Messiah was cut off.

This sign can also be shown by multiplying 70 x 33 = 2310; and then subtracting 62 x 33 = 2046. This would be 2310-2046= 264; then divide that 264 by 7 times, and you get the 37 years between Christ crucified and the abomination of desolation.

By this I am convinced this prophecy given to Daniel was fulfilled in the first coming of Jesus Christ.

Thanks bro, I didnt pull up this one but I sure found your other one really helpful. God bless you

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Ok this is good bro, I can catch this (and in the way you are showing it). What I was thinking of (well in my mind) was how Jesus (The Word of God) said I sanctify (cleanse) myself, Him as the sanctuary, or so I was thinking around that (kinda) but maybe I was off and running in a wrong direction there. I suppose even there (hard to tell) because I can catch the picture through the veil (which is also his flesh though isnt it?).

I suppose coming in at it through Daniel I must change (somewhat) in what respect I am reading it.

I do like the way you put that, because I was like how can you pullute the sanctuary (and make it Him) so to speak?

Thanks bro, that was a big help

God bless you

Yes, the flesh is the veil that covers ones mind from entering into the holy place, where that hidden manna is kept.

Here is a verse that speaks in a two fold manner, of what would happen to both the flesh of Jesus, and to Gods written Word in the hands of evil men.

Luke 9:44
Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.

What man did to the body of Jesus, is also what they have done to the written Word of God.

By the spirit of the lie they have corrupted the Word of God and cast the truth to the ground, and by their own carnal interpretations and traditions they have made the Word of God of no effect.

But the Lord will not let His Holy One see corruption. For the Truth shallbe resurrected again in the hearts and minds of all the Lords disciples.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, the flesh is the veil that covers ones mind from entering into the holy place, where that hidden manna is kept.

Here is a verse that speaks in a two fold manner, of what would happen to both the flesh of Jesus, and to Gods written Word in the hands of evil men.

Luke 9:44
Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.

What man did to the body of Jesus, is also what they have done to the written Word of God.

By the spirit of the lie they have corrupted the Word of God and cast the truth to the ground, and by their own carnal interpretations and traditions they have made the Word of God of no effect.

But the Lord will not let His Holy One see corruption. For the Truth shallbe resurrected again in the hearts and minds of all the Lords disciples.

I was just speaking to Raze on that the other day, I so agree

And yes bro, I can see the comparison there with the "handling the word of Life" and His being marred beyond recconition in the hands of wicked men likewise. That was something I caught earlier on which is why I can be nuts trying to order something up aright, or at least having showing some kind of uncorruptedness when it comes to HOW He is speaking. You know when your off or wresting with His words even.

I always loved how his disciples would say, "WHAT MEANETH HE when He saith..."? Like others can tell you what they THINK it means but its important (to these) to know what HE MEANS by something. Whereas a false witness (even where he speaks of His body being destroyed) were wresting on what they heard (in their own words). Even their witness not agreeing. You can see it there that way too.

Been looking in Daniel this morning, I keep avoiding this book but it keeps becoming important to me.

Question, the way these are worded, knowing Daniel knew the years (understood not the vision) for it was for many days whereas Jesus speaks of that spoken by Daniel (and Jesus "opened their minds" to understand the scriptures") then says, "let him that readeth understand" (as if now) what Daniel did not understand, and was sealed up till the time of the end, Jesus is saying, "let him understand" (who readeth it now) type thing.

I was looking at these, applying to the wars (or the war desolations) as determined in Daniel spoken of (yet after the Messiah was cut off)

*Mark 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

*Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desloations of Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book : for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
　
This part here...

to seal up the vision and prophecy...

Whats seal up the vision, is this what is speaking of the vision of all (or as "the words of the book") because it says "to seal up the vision" (as in complete it? or sealed it in, or sealed it in another way?) So seal up the vision AND the prophecy (along with anoint the Most Holy)

Why does it speak threefold like that?

Thanks bro, God bless, still looking at this, just want to be sure I get the little things

 

[Fireinfolding]

Im curious (also) is Paul (at all) speaking of the same thing (or in the same manner) as Jesus here? Or to the time itself?

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

1Cr 7:23 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

1Cr 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

1Cr 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;


Because he says he is speaking of the "present distress" and Jesus speaks of the distress (those who are with child) and Paul seems to pull in virgins, the present distress and brethren with wives (as it relates to the time short).

Just wondering if Paul is speaking of the same thing there.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I was just speaking to Raze on that the other day, I so agree

And yes bro, I can see the comparison there with the "handling the word of Life" and His being marred beyond recconition in the hands of wicked men likewise. That was something I caught earlier on which is why I can be nuts trying to order something up aright, or at least having showing some kind of uncorruptedness when it comes to HOW He is speaking. You know when your off or wresting with His words even.

I always loved how his disciples would say, "WHAT MEANETH HE when He saith..."? Like others can tell you what they THINK it means but its important (to these) to know what HE MEANS by something. Whereas a false witness (even where he speaks of His body being destroyed) were wresting on what they heard (in their own words). Even their witness not agreeing. You can see it there that way too.

Been looking in Daniel this morning, I keep avoiding this book but it keeps becoming important to me.

Question, the way these are worded, knowing Daniel knew the years (understood not the vision) for it was for many days whereas Jesus speaks of that spoken by Daniel (and Jesus "opened their minds" to understand the scriptures") then says, "let him that readeth understand" (as if now) what Daniel did not understand, and was sealed up till the time of the end, Jesus is saying, "let him understand" (who readeth it now) type thing.

I was looking at these, applying to the wars (or the war desolations) as determined in Daniel spoken of (yet after the Messiah was cut off)

*Mark 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

*Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desloations of Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book : for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
　
This part here...

to seal up the vision and prophecy...

Whats seal up the vision, is this what is speaking of the vision of all (or as "the words of the book") because it says "to seal up the vision" (as in complete it? or sealed it in, or sealed it in another way?) So seal up the vision AND the prophecy (along with anoint the Most Holy)

Why does it speak threefold like that?

Thanks bro, God bless, still looking at this, just want to be sure I get the little things

Again you have discern what events took place leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem, and what events were prophesied after the desolations of Jerusalem.

For instance Mark 13:7 speaks of things that would happen after the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.(as spoken in Mark 13:14)

Jesus was reflecting on both long term, and short term events; but like I said the past is a reflection of future events.

The sealing up of something is to close it up from sight.

In Daniel 12:9 Daniel is told "for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."

Jesus (Word of God) is the light of the world, when the light of the truth left the world, mens minds were darkened from seeing the truth.

But though the world could not see Him(Word of Truth) his disciples could see him, and understand the mysteries hid in God. This was because they had the light dwelling in them.

But the end time mysteries spoken to Daniel, and revealed in Revelation to John would be sealed up and closed till the time of the end.

Jesus(lion and lamb) is shown opening up these sealed up mysteries in Revelation.

Revelation 5:2
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 6:1
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.


Each one of these seals would be opened up in there own time, and be revealed to the Lord's disciples in their own time.

Revelation 10:7 :"But in the days of the voice of the 7th angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets."