long engagements

[Lilem85]

Hi everyone. Really want your opinion on something.
I've been with my boyfriend for 8 months and although it's not a really long time God has been totally at the centre of our relationship for the whole of that time and we know that we've both found our "soul mates" (cheesy i know!).
We're both travelling in the same direction in life and marriage is a certainty, it's just a question of when. So we've been thinking about getting engaged. We both really want it and it seems so so right. If he asked me tomorrow I know I'd say yes.
However, we don't actually want to get married for 2 or 3 years. We quite like the idea of a long engagement for practical reasons (planning, finances, studies) however my parents may have their reservations.
Is there anything wrong with long engagements?
What dya reckon?

 

[LiberatedChick]

In the end my husband and I had a 4.5 year engagement but despite that I think an engagement should be no longer than a year or two max. With us it wasn't that we wanted to get engaged and then wait until marrying...we would have married much sooner if we could have. We were very young when we got engaged and whilst we discussed many things beforehand it wasn't until we announced our engagement that we really thought through exactly what we'd need to do in order to be in a good financial, study-free and legal position to marry. And so a time when we should have just been planning our wedding was also spent getting ourselves in a good position to marry in the first place.

So I think it's great that you've realised you need to finish your studies and sort your finances before marrying but it's the wanting to be engaged but not wanting to marry yet which strikes me about your post. You've realised you need to sort out your finances and finish your studies before marrying and as a result you don't want to marry until 2-3 years time. Well that's fine...nothing wrong with that. However, I think you need to ask yourselves why you want to get engaged now? Why not wait until your studies are finished and you've got your finances sorted? Whilst I see being engaged as a promise to marry (and hence if you were certain you wanted to marry but hadn't announced it I'd say you were unofficially engaged) the actual engagement period is really just for planning the wedding. IMO ensuring you're in a good position to marry should be done beforehand.

So the only real reason I can think of for having a long engagement is if the planning is going to take a long time. I think you need to look into venues etc. If your seriously going to have to book a venue 2-3 years in advance (I've heard of people needing to book 1-2 years in advance but never three) then sure, get engaged and start planning. If this is not the case then ask yourself why get engaged now? Why not spend this time preparing yourself for your life together by sorting your finances and finishing your studies before you get engaged?

 

[FaithfulServant]

Personally, I couldn't have a long engagement because of sexual temptation. But if y'alls passions can be easily controlled then you're in a different boat.

The 'engagement' process is supposed to be the planning process. Why not just date until you are ready to start planning? I don't see any point in people using 'We're engaged' as simply showing a step up in the relationship. If you need 3 years to plan a wedding, then get engaged now. Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

There have been threads on this forum before about long engagements, I suggest looking back at the old ones

 

[TankGirl]

Never quite worked out the point of engagements. My husband proposed after 8 weeks, and we got married 4 1/2 months later, but we never really considered ourselves engaged. Being married was what mattered to us - and we have been, extremely happily (with ups & downs!) for 9 years now.

I guess age is a relevant factor (I was 25, he was 29), but as for lots of other reasons, well, we were stony broke, didn't have our own home etc, but none of that mattered...

Life will never be perfect - the time will never be right - follow God & your heart...

 

[Singin4Him]

My husband and I had a 9 month engagement and surprisingly there was less temptation during our engagement than during our dating period so I have to disagree with those who say the sexual temptation becomes stronger during engagement. I'm sorry but temptation begins with a CHOICE, you CHOOSE to put yourselves in compromising and tempting situation therefore you can choose not to as well. If you want to marry in purity you will work hard for it, it's not easy but it's completely and totally possible.

With that said I would like to discourage you from getting engaged 2 or 3 years before you can get married. That is a very long amount of time and there are a few problems I see with those who get engaged for such a long time. First of all when you get engaged for such a long amount of time you begin to act as though you are married and think as though you are married, this can actually hurt the relationships rather than help it. You do not want to live as though you are married (even if you're not living together) until you are joined in marriage. Secondly, if you are unable to get married for 2 or 3 years there is a reason for that and the Lord knows what he is doing. Until you are engaged and even married you need to constantly have you eyes open to what God might want for your lives and as crazy as this may sound it might not be marriage even as much as you may think so right now. God may lead you down a completely different path between now and 3 years, you need to be sure you are open to what God wants not what you want.

So with that said I would just say take these few years to get to know each other better and discern God's will for your relationship. If you are 100% sure the Lord wants you together in marriage then my advice is get engaged for only the amount of time it would take to plan a wedding. I had a rather big wedding so it literally took me 9 months and I still could have used another month, so use that as your time period. Good luck!

 

[Lilem85]

Thanks for all your valid points. It's not gonna happen for a while yet cause the b/f has to save up for a ring and ask my parents etc. (who live on the other side of the country.) But it's cool to get everything into perspective. I reckon We'll probably end up being engaged for around 2 years before we tie the knot if we do decide to do the long engagement thing. I don't think sexual temptation will be a problem for us, purity is really important to both of us and we're really careful about that type of thing.
However, I think it would take at least 18months to plan the wedding- after watching our friends try and fit it all into a year I'd want to give us an extra 6 months on that!

As for being financially secure and finishing studies etc I can see what you're saying about waiting till we are to get engaged. However I know that it will never happen that way given our circumstances. If we wait for that, we'll be waiting a very long time because my b/fs chosen career path is never going to be financially stable. We wouldn't get married till I'd at least finished my studies (i graduate a year before him), but being married whilst he's studying is a very real possibility as he goes to a family based bible school, where they welcome couples and families on campus. So him studying is not really an issue. I know plenty of couples who have married whilst studying, or who have begun studying after getting married and it is feesible- I really think you can do it all, because in Britian we don't actually have the same financial worries whilst studying as in other countries- the government pays for it all.

I know engagement is not to be taken lightly and we're not just playing happy families or whatever, we are seriously thinking about all the implications and consequences to our decision. We're both mature enough- emotionally, spiritually and mentally, and we've both lived away from our families for some time so the shock of being domesticated etc is not an issue.

All your comments have made me think seriously about aspects i hadnt thought about and so I'm still not decided either way, although I'm still not against long engagements. I think a chat with the rents is in order and we shall have to see.

Thanks guys! really helpful.

 

[invisiblebabe]

Why not just date until you are ready to start planning? I don't see any point in people using 'We're engaged' as simply showing a step up in the relationship. If you need 3 years to plan a wedding, then get engaged now. Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Dating and engagement entail completely different levels of commitment. I say if you are sure you will marry and have a specific time frame in mind, why not just call it like it is and say you are engaged?

Blessings
kayli

 

[FaithfulServant]

Dating and engagement entail completely different levels of commitment. I say if you are sure you will marry and have a specific time frame in mind, why not just call it like it is and say you are engaged?

Blessings
kayli

I disagree completely. Engagement is a time to plan your wedding (book flowers, caterer, etc). It is the stupidest thing in the world to say "okay, now our relationship is sooo much deeper" once you get engaged. In one day your relationship isn't going to magically transform because you have a ring, if you mean spiritually, emotionally, etc.

Anyone can say "we hope to be married in 2 years in the summer". That's dreaming, which is of course allowed and talking about when a good time frame would be before you get engaged is totally cool. But I'm saying, don't bother announcing to the world that you're engaged unless you plan to start planning your wedding in the NEAR future.

Whenever people get engaged and I asked when their wedding date is and they say "Oh, in summer 2009, blah blah", I can't help but roll my eyes on the inside Then term 'engaged' shouldn't be used as simply a 'relationship status title', which is sadly how some people use it.

 

[InTheFlame]

Hi everyone. Really want your opinion on something.
I've been with my boyfriend for 8 months and although it's not a really long time God has been totally at the centre of our relationship for the whole of that time and we know that we've both found our "soul mates" (cheesy i know!).
We're both travelling in the same direction in life and marriage is a certainty, it's just a question of when. So we've been thinking about getting engaged. We both really want it and it seems so so right. If he asked me tomorrow I know I'd say yes.

You don't mention how well you know each other, and what's behind this knowledge that you're 'soul mates'. So, WHY do you two know that marriage is a certainty? What is it about your relationship that makes you sure that being married to this guy would be a good thing? It's great that God's been 'at the centre' of your relationship, but it is possible to have that and still stuff up on choice of person to marry... or to avoid building a good foundation for marriage.

sorry if that sounds harsh. It's not meant to be... I do want to see what you think about those questions though.

 

[invisiblebabe]

I disagree completely. Engagement is a time to plan your wedding (book flowers, caterer, etc). It is the stupidest thing in the world to say "okay, now our relationship is sooo much deeper" once you get engaged. In one day your relationship isn't going to magically transform because you have a ring, if you mean spiritually, emotionally, etc.

Oh, I'm not saying it has to do with the ring. It has to do with the promises made and the level of the commitment. There can be no ring for all I care, if a couple has promised to love each other forever and get married within the next several years, and some sort of announcement is made, ie the rest of their social circle knows about it... by my definition, they are engaged.

The relationship gets deeper because of the level of intensity/commitment, and the fact that the decision has been made. There is no more "dating" or "getting to know you" for the sake of deciding whether to marry. When it's already decided, a couple is engaged.

Anyone can say "we hope to be married in 2 years in the summer".

"We hope to get married" is a lot different than "We *will* get married."

Whenever people get engaged and I asked when their wedding date is and they say "Oh, in summer 2009, blah blah", I can't help but roll my eyes on the inside Then term 'engaged' shouldn't be used as simply a 'relationship status title', which is sadly how some people use it.

2009?!?! That's ridiculous.

I'd consider anything within 3 years at latest, a real engagement.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on some of the concepts though, as you seem to emphasize the concrete/outward actions that accompany engagement, and I emphasize the state of the commitment and relationship.

Blessings
Kayli

 

[Singin4Him]

Oh, I'm not saying it has to do with the ring. It has to do with the promises made and the level of the commitment. There can be no ring for all I care, if a couple has promised to love each other forever and get married within the next several years, and some sort of announcement is made, ie the rest of their social circle knows about it... by my definition, they are engaged.

I'm just curious, how long have you been engaged?
You are correct in saying that with engagement comes a deeper commitment as it should obviously considering you have agreed to enter into marriage with one another. However many ministers encouraged my husband and I as we were going through premarital counseling and classes to continue to keep our eyes open to what God wants and as we prepare for marriage with one another be open to the fact that we may discover that we are not going to compatible to marry one another. It is much easier and in a sense better to break off an engagement than it would be to divorce especially considering the Lord is against divorce.

In a sense you are both correct. Engagement is a time to plan but it is also a time to get to know one another in a deeper way and get to know what needs your future spouse and how to meet them. But it is true becoming engaged does not magically transform your dating relationship into this deeper more intimate relationship, that is something that grows with time and IMO deep intimacy should not be accomplished until the wedding day and from then on .

 

[LadyBird]

I don't think there's anything wrong with long engagements, I just wonder what is the point of a long engagement? I feel as though engagements should last ONLY as long as it takes to plan the wedding. And I also feel as though, when a couple gets engaged, they should be 100% prepared for marriage.

I like to look at it this way: if all the wedding preparations were made, would you and your fiance(e) be ready to get married today? If the answer is yes, then go ahead, get engaged, if the answer is no, then you are not ready to be engaged. May sound a little harsh and extreme...but honestly, does it take 3 years to plan a wedding?

Engagement is a time to plan but it is also a time to get to know one another in a deeper way and get to know what needs your future spouse and how to meet them

Getting to know each other is what two people do when they are dating... NOT when they are engaged...you plan the wedding when you are engaged...that's it! You should know your fiance(e) well enough before you get engaged.

Why not just date until you are ready to start planning?

Well said!!!

I disagree completely. Engagement is a time to plan your wedding (book flowers, caterer, etc). It is the stupidest thing in the world to say "okay, now our relationship is sooo much deeper" once you get engaged. In one day your relationship isn't going to magically transform because you have a ring, if you mean spiritually, emotionally, etc.

Anyone can say "we hope to be married in 2 years in the summer". That's dreaming, which is of course allowed and talking about when a good time frame would be before you get engaged is totally cool. But I'm saying, don't bother announcing to the world that you're engaged unless you plan to start planning your wedding in the NEAR future.

Whenever people get engaged and I asked when their wedding date is and they say "Oh, in summer 2009, blah blah", I can't help but roll my eyes on the inside Then term 'engaged' shouldn't be used as simply a 'relationship status title', which is sadly how some people use it.

Are you and I sharing a brain? My thoughts...EXACTLY!

The relationship gets deeper because of the level of intensity/commitment, and the fact that the decision has been made.

I don't think so.

 

[InTheFlame]

I don't think there's anything wrong with long engagements, I just wonder what is the point of a long engagement? I feel as though engagements should last ONLY as long as it takes to plan the wedding. And I also feel as though, when a couple gets engaged, they should be 100% prepared for marriage.

I don't quite agree with you here, although I see some common ground. Here's an example... before hubby and I were engaged, we were doing studies and having conversations centred around the idea of 'is this the person I should marry?' and 'am I ready for marriage?'. After we were engaged, the focus shifted to 'how can we prepare for the challenges of marriage?'. We talked in more depth about what we expected/wanted from marriage, like whether he'd move into my place or whether we should find a new 'our' place together. We moved from talking about how many children we'd like and about when, to 'for how many months after the wedding will we use birth control? What type?'

Getting to know each other is what two people do when they are dating... NOT when they are engaged...you plan the wedding when you are engaged...that's it! You should know your fiance(e) well enough before you get engaged.

Again, I don't quite agree but I think we have common ground. I think that a couple should know each other well enough to know whether they can fruitfully live with each other for the rest of their lives, before they get engaged. The engagement period, however, is a chance to look in more depth at their own (and the other's) flaws and strengths, and work out strategies for dealing with/utilising them.

I don't think so.

I found that our trust for each other was greater when we'd made a solid decision to marry. We knew that we were each in it for the long haul, and that allowed us to be more vulnerable with each other, I think.

 

[invisiblebabe]

I'm just curious, how long have you been engaged?

We really aren't sure....depends what you'd call engagement. We've had a wedding date set since the end of December, but we didn't get rings (he has one too) until April 2, we started actually booking the church and asking people to be bridesmaids and all that stuff in April, and he proposed June 10. We started telling people about our wedding date around Feb, I think.. I don't remember, but it was before we got the rings. The wedding is in 40 days.. August 10. I say at the very latest, April 2 was when we were "officially" engaged, although the dynamics of the relationship were predominantly those of an engagement much sooner.

You are correct in saying that with engagement comes a deeper commitment as it should obviously considering you have agreed to enter into marriage with one another. However many ministers encouraged my husband and I as we were going through premarital counseling and classes to continue to keep our eyes open to what God wants and as we prepare for marriage with one another be open to the fact that we may discover that we are not going to compatible to marry one another. It is much easier and in a sense better to break off an engagement than it would be to divorce especially considering the Lord is against divorce.

I have an ex fiance... when I was 19... so I've been there. That got wrecked because of interfering future in-laws

I would also say though, that if a couple is not 100% sure they will marry, they should not even get engaged to begin with. Promising forever and breaking it can potentially cause about as much damage as premarital sex, I would say, believe it or not. In Biblical times, betrothal was treated as a legally binding commitment, and I can see the logic in this.

As far as compatibility.... I'm a psych student at university, and I've done extensive research on personality and temperament, as well as communication dynamics in relationships. That one wasn't too hard to figure out with my fiance I'd find it quite interesting counseling people actually...

In a sense you are both correct. Engagement is a time to plan but it is also a time to get to know one another in a deeper way and get to know what needs your future spouse and how to meet them. But it is true becoming engaged does not magically transform your dating relationship into this deeper more intimate relationship, that is something that grows with time and IMO deep intimacy should not be accomplished until the wedding day and from then on .

You are definitely right that it is a process that leads up to engagement and continues to marriage and throughout life. I prefer to focus less on the labels and more on the internal models.... and I will agree that it is not the status of engagement that makes a relationship stronger.... it is the rapport and connection that has led up to the point of engagement, that makes it strong.


Hmmm, how would you define deep intimacy?

 

[LadyBird]

I don't quite agree with you here, although I see some common ground. Here's an example... before hubby and I were engaged, we were doing studies and having conversations centred around the idea of 'is this the person I should marry?' and 'am I ready for marriage?'. After we were engaged, the focus shifted to 'how can we prepare for the challenges of marriage?'. We talked in more depth about what we expected/wanted from marriage, like whether he'd move into my place or whether we should find a new 'our' place together. We moved from talking about how many children we'd like and about when, to 'for how many months after the wedding will we use birth control? What type?'
[/font]

Again, I don't quite agree but I think we have common ground. I think that a couple should know each other well enough to know whether they can fruitfully live with each other for the rest of their lives, before they get engaged. The engagement period, however, is a chance to look in more depth at their own (and the other's) flaws and strengths, and work out strategies for dealing with/utilising them.


I found that our trust for each other was greater when we'd made a solid decision to marry. We knew that we were each in it for the long haul, and that allowed us to be more vulnerable with each other, I think.

You aren't going to change how I feel about this...just like I'm not going to change how you feel.

I honestly don't care what other people do in their life...it's their life and the can live it however they want...it's not like I'm going to be affected by someone's outrageously long engagement...it makes me laugh more than anything.

I just don't see the point in being engaged for 3 or 4 years .... .

If a couple is going to be engaged for that long, obviously they either:
a) haven't been together for a long time and/or
b) aren't ready to get married either,

thus, either
a) they are still getting to know each other and/or
b) aren't ready for marriage.

So what is the point in being engaged if you aren't ready and prepared to be married? I think that when people have 3 year long engagements, it's more so out of insecurity. Like "oh, I'm taken but...I wont be married for another 3 years so if someone better comes along then I'll just break off my sort of engagement since we wont be getting married for another 2 years anyway." I just think it's stupid and pointless.

I'm not trying to push my ideas on anyone, I'm just saying what I think. I don't care about what other people think about this topic, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[FaithfulServant]

You aren't going to change how I feel about this...just like I'm not going to change how you feel.

I honestly don't care what other people do in their life...it's their life and the can live it however they want...it's not like I'm going to be affected by someone's outrageously long engagement...it makes me laugh more than anything.

I just don't see the point in being engaged for 3 or 4 years .... .

If a couple is going to be engaged for that long, obviously they either:
a) haven't been together for a long time and/or
b) aren't ready to get married either,

thus, either
a) they are still getting to know each other and/or
b) aren't ready for marriage.

So what is the point in being engaged if you aren't ready and prepared to be married? I think that when people have 3 year long engagements, it's more so out of insecurity. Like "oh, I'm taken but...I wont be married for another 3 years so if someone better comes along then I'll just break off my sort of engagement since we wont be getting married for another 2 years anyway." I just think it's stupid and pointless.

I'm not trying to push my ideas on anyone, I'm just saying what I think. I don't care about what other people think about this topic, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

You don't have to use a disclaimer haha, I hope no one here is offended by anyone sharing their opinion because it is the point of posting

I agree with you. If someone has to get engaged for that long a period of time, then they aren't ready for marriage. You're ready for marriage when you can be MARRIED, and in the near future.

 

[Lilem85]

You don't mention how well you know each other, and what's behind this knowledge that you're 'soul mates'. So, WHY do you two know that marriage is a certainty? What is it about your relationship that makes you sure that being married to this guy would be a good thing? It's great that God's been 'at the centre' of your relationship, but it is possible to have that and still stuff up on choice of person to marry... or to avoid building a good foundation for marriage.

sorry if that sounds harsh. It's not meant to be... I do want to see what you think about those questions though.

thanks for getting me to think about those questions and its cool i havnt taken offence. but for me to list all the reasons why i know we're "soul-mates" would take a very long time and would probably bore you all to death. Just trust that I know, and he knows- mainly because God has told me that he is the one, aside from all the lovey-dovey stuff. I have faith and I trust God on this one. He knows where I'm going in life and although I don't know all the details, I do know that this is it for me. I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that, but thats the most honest answer I can give.

 

[Singin4Him]

Getting to know each other is what two people do when they are dating... NOT when they are engaged...you plan the wedding when you are engaged...that's it! You should know your fiance(e) well enough before you get engaged.

I'm not talking about the "getting to know each other" part of dating, I'm talking about getting to know one another's NEEDS this is something you not only discover through engagement but constantly in marriage. I'm talking about a deeper sense of getting know one another as I said above, please read my comment fully. I'm sorry but engagement is not just a time to plan a wedding but also a time to prepare for marriage. A wedding is just one special day but a marriage is a lifetime commitment and I strongly believe during the time of engagement there should be much more preparation for marriage than for a wedding day such as premarital counseling, classes, meeting with married mentors, or however the couple can prepare for such a deep commitment.

 

[Singin4Him]

I would also say though, that if a couple is not 100% sure they will marry, they should not even get engaged to begin with.

Promising forever and breaking it can potentially cause about as much damage as premarital sex, I would say, believe it or not. In Biblical times, betrothal was treated as a legally binding commitment, and I can see the logic in this.

I completely agree however, has there ever been a time in your life when you thought the Lord told you something that in reality he did not? To often couples get engaged because they want to be together but not because it's God's will, if we encourage a couple to continue to seek God's will in their relationships even after engagement then we could be preventing the rising divorce rate amount Christians.

As far as compatibility.... I'm a psych student at university, and I've done extensive research on personality and temperament, as well as communication dynamics in relationships. That one wasn't too hard to figure out with my fiance I'd find it quite interesting counseling people actually...

I'm about to graduate with my Psych degree....I'm a bit confused as to what your point is here?

Hmmm, how would you define deep intimacy?

When you are married you will understand that there is a level of intimacy that should be saved for marriage, a level where you are so open, so vulnerable, and so "connected" with one another that is leads to feelings and desires one should not have unless they are married and this is possibly more so for women emotionally but it can be just as true for many men. It can be very hard to fight temptation if you enter this level of intimacy.

 

[Lilem85]

Ok, I've just caught up with all the posts and obviously I agree and disagree on various different points. I think with my personal relationship it's cool:

we're emotionally and spiritually ready for MARRIAGE, if practicalities allowed, we would do it tomorrow and we would be ready for it.

We are 100% sure that we WILL get married, either summer 2007 or summer 2008 depending on practicalities.

We have talked about marriage and whether we are ready for it in a logical and objective way.

We are seeking advice from our parents and from other married people who we trust- meaning we are keeping accountable.

We know each other well enough to know that marriage is a certainty- although we looking forward to getting to know each other further over the next 50 odd years.

In our minds 2-3 years is a realistic time frame to plan a wedding, and we would start planning straight away. Ok, so you can do it in a shorter amount of time, but we WANT to take our time over it, we WANT to have that period to prepare for marriage and to prepare for our wedding.

We do not view engagement as an extension of dating. We do not view engagement as a security blanket, or some kind of trap to stop each other from thinking about cheating or leaving etc.

We have a God-given knowledge that we are going to get married, we our open to hearing his voice on it and to his guidance on every aspect of our relationship.

We love each other.

We are not rushing to get married because sexual temptation is too much for us.

So I'm still leaning towards a long engagement- some might say that we're pretty much engaged already- but when i say engagement I'm talking about going public, making it official. No, a ring won't deepen our relationship or make us more secure, but to me it is a public declaration that on "this date" some time in the future we WILL get married and we want everyone to share in our happiness.