Logical Problems with Calvinism

[FreeGrace2]

Don't be too hard on him. Your view is pretty close.

From your statement here, seems you're fairly clueless as to what I believe.

 

[Hammster]

I said this:
"So, please tell the thread; who thinks it takes goodness to believe. Can you name even 1 person? If not, then you're just pushing a fallacy. Or fantasy."

Total fallacy. I DO NOT believe that. And I've posted that a number of times. Your claim of what I believe falls into the category of arrogance to assume that you can read my mind.

Goodness is NOT AN ISSUE in believing in Christ. Evil hearts can and do believe. Calvinist, otoh, CANNOT prove from Scripture that one needs a new heart in order to believe.

Goodness is very much the issue. An old heart is a heart of flesh and cannot please God. You disagree with this.

 

[Hammster]

From your statement here, seems you're fairly clueless as to what I believe.

Not at all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You continue to show that your memory is short. You can't seem to remember all that's said to you, so you take each statement as independent of others. This is probably why you don't understand Calvinism. You certainly don't understand what I've said in the last page or two.

You've certainly shown a penchant for making duplicitous statements. I understand the Bible and Calvinism enough to know that Calvinism CANNOT provide Scriptural evidence for much of what they claim.

I keep asking for evidence from Scripture and none have been shown.

 

[Hammster]

When an evil heart believes what God says, then YES, God is pleased.

When will a Calvinist ever find any evidence from Scripture that one needs a new heart in order to believe?

We find it all of time, all through scripture.

 

[Hammster]

You've certainly shown a penchant for making duplicitous statements. I understand the Bible and Calvinism enough to know that Calvinism CANNOT provide Scriptural evidence for much of what they claim.

I keep asking for evidence from Scripture and none have been shown.

Yes it has. You cannot even admit that. I'm not saying you have to agree. But you are either being insincere, or you truly have a short memory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your memory appears to be too short. This has been done. But you'll continue to reject it because you think there's enough goodness in the old heart to submit to God.

Just making the claim that "it has been done" doesn't get the job done. Again, STOP putting FALSE words in my mouth. Goodness is NOT AN ISSUE in believing. That is my position.

Your comments are disingenuous.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Goodness is very much the issue. An old heart is a heart of flesh and cannot please God. You disagree with this.

Prove your opinion with Scripture that teaches that one must be good in order to believe. Or more precisely, that one needs to be regenerated (have a new heart) in order to believe.

I'm patient. I'll wait for anyone to look up the verses.

 

[Hammster]

Just making the claim that "it has been done" doesn't get the job done. Again, STOP putting FALSE words in my mouth. Goodness is NOT AN ISSUE in believing. That is my position.

Your comments are disingenuous.

Believing is good. But I suppose you disagree with that, based on the above statement.

 

[Hammster]

Prove your opinion with Scripture that teaches that one must be good in order to believe. Or more precisely, that one needs to be regenerated (have a new heart) in order to believe.

I'm patient. I'll wait for anyone to look up the verses.

I've never said one must be good in order to believe. That's your position.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We find it all of time, all through scripture.

Nice vague comment. If it's all through Scripture, it should be quite easy to cite and quote. But I don't expect that to be forthcoming.

 

[Hammster]

Nice vague comment. If it's all through Scripture, it should be quite easy to cite and quote. But I don't expect that to be forthcoming.

It has been cited. Your memory issues are not my problem.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes it has. You cannot even admit that. I'm not saying you have to agree. But you are either being insincere, or you truly have a short memory.

This is nonsense. All of it. There are no verses that support your notion that one needs a new heart in order to believe.

 

[Hammster]

This is nonsense. All of it. There are no verses that support your notion that one needs a new heart in order to believe.

Again, if you were sincere you'd say that you disagree with the verses used to support the idea. To say none have been given is not sincere.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believing is good.

So? All hearts are evil. The Bible says so.

And the Bible does NOT teach that one needs a new heart to believe.

But I suppose you disagree with that, based on the above statement.

Your 'supposer' is broken.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, if you were sincere you'd say that you disagree with the verses used to support the idea. To say none have been given is not sincere.

Let's be clear. None have been given that SAY that one needs a new heart to believe. You think there are such verses. But they don't say what you claim. That much is clear.

I will agree that verses have been given. But NONE SAY what you claim.

 

[Hammster]

So? All hearts are evil. The Bible says so.

And the Bible does NOT teach that one needs a new heart to believe.


Your 'supposer' is broken.

Believing is good. But you believe an evil heart can believe.

I'm not the one with the problem, here.

 

[Hammster]

Let's be clear. None have been given that SAY that one needs a new heart to believe. You think there are such verses. But they don't say what you claim. That much is clear.

I will agree that verses have been given. But NONE SAY what you claim.

Based on your level of what's considered evidence, there's no verses that say a heart of stone can believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believing is good. But you believe an evil heart can believe.

I'm not the one with the problem, here.

Please PROVE from Scripture that one must have a new heart in order to believe. Unless there is a verse teaching that, your point is false.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Based on your level of what's considered evidence, there's no verses that say a heart of stone can believe.

Which is to say, "based on the truth of Scripture, there are no verses that say heart of stone can believe".

Thank you for agreeing with me on this.

I've asked repeatedly for verses that teach that one needs a new heart in order to believe. And this is the only kind of response there is.

Because there simply AREN'T any verses that support the Calvinistic claim that one needs a new heart in order to believe.