Marvin Knox
Senior Veteran
How about because we are commanded to?
You do believe in keeping His commandments don't you?
Oh - that's right. Your salvation depends on how well you do at keeping them.
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How about because we are commanded to?So then it useless to preach the gospel then if it is all God. In fact preaching the gospel to an audience that they can be saved would be a lie because some of them may be destined to be unsaved. For no doubt the Calvinist preacher is preaching so as to convince people. No doubt Calvinists who write here do so in a way that they can convince others. But why even try if it is all God who makes a person see the truth?
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Not sure how this issue entered into the discussion, but the parables of the wheat and tares, the good fish and the bad fish, actually support the eternal security of the believer. Believers are clearly identified and so are non-believers.For I know that if parables were to help the case for OSAS, somebody here would no doubt use it to back up their belief in it.
No it is from the Book of Romans - and I do take it literally.
"There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;" Romans 3:11
This was hardly our first go round now was it?I only had 5 minutes then, so I did only respond to one thing.
However, I do not appreciate you jumping to conclusions from my post that I was avoiding the other verses, because as I said earlier, I was on a work break.
It seems to me that above you are asking not to have your beliefs misrepresented, but the other half of your post is drawing conclusions about me, which I find ironic.
To ask questions of me would have been easy, but instead you draw your own conclusions. Then you finish your post about how people just need to ask and not misrepresent you, but that is exactly what you did to me. So you may be reaping what you sow in that.
Please do not tell me what you think about why I am doing anything. That makes for a bad conversation where I am constantly correcting incorrect assumptions and it is not a righteous thing to do.
That is correct. He does.That in Calvinist believe God must do something to a person to make them open to God.
No one comes to God on their own. No one understands God on their own.However, the Word tells us that we come to God in faith and we RECEIVE faith by hearing the Word of God.
Several reasons - first and foremost is because you yourself first engaged me with the assumption that I was a Calvinist.Why on earth are you playing ping-pong with us when you do not agree with what they do? Seems to me you are injecting yourself into the conversation as some kind of mediator and to 'explain' things.
Why would we need that? Each side can ask each other questions directly.
Apparently you have a window into the spirit world that I do not have.No doubt. But God being "at work" doesn't equate to regeneration.
So then you feel perfectly justified in drawing your own conclusions and misrepresenting others based on how you interpret and understand their previous posts?This was hardly our first go round now was it?
In fact you first started in this thread with an emotional outburst concerning the horrible unfairness of the beliefs of Calvinists.
I was hardly taking a stab in the dark at what your emotional status was concerning Calvinism. You have made that abundantly clear from the very start.
Regeneration is specific to pre-salvation for the Calvinist. However what FreeGrace2 was saying that God being 'at work' does not mean regeneration (pre salvation).Apparently you have a window into the spirit world that I do not have.
Well that is not true. Man comes to God in faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and the gospel. Hearing the Word of God we are drawn to Him through the gospel.No one comes to God on their own. No one understands God on their own.
"There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;" Romans 3:11
Fair enough..............Why not just keep to the facts and leave what you think someone else says out of it, unless you are looking for clarification on their point. It is not the way to hold a conversation and is getting old really quick.
Not sure how this issue entered into the discussion, but the parables of the wheat and tares, the good fish and the bad fish, actually support the eternal security of the believer. Believers are clearly identified and so are non-believers.
I was very much on the topic that FreeGrace2 and I were talking about.Regeneration is specific to pre-salvation for the Calvinist. However what FreeGrace2 was saying that God being 'at work' does not mean regeneration (pre salvation).
Then you say that he has a different understanding of spiritual things than you do.
But pre-salvation is very specific point in time. You are talking about overall, before and after salvation.
I think @FreeGrace2 is right. Why not pin-point it down to the specific period of time that Calvinists are referring to. That would be much better than saying that whenever the Spirit works in someone as a blank statement. Maybe try to stay on topic using the same criteria as the person you replied to.
Faith does come by hearing the Word of God.Well that is not true. Man comes to God in faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and the gospel. Hearing the Word of God we are drawn to Him through the gospel.
So you are saved by the work of your faith? Are you then also kept by that faith? Well for me, I am saved and kept by the One who called to me and renewed me. I have hope in Him, not my faith.No. It is faith that brings a person to Christ and faith comes by hearing the gospel and the Word of God. That is why the Great Commission is to preach the gospel.
Then what you believe is a contradiction. It doesn't matter if you preach the gospel because God just saves people despite the gospel. There is no power in that kind of gospel because it ultimately doesn't matter if one preaches that type of gospel in the long run. However, the Scriptures say the preaching of the cross is to perish foolishness.How about because we are commanded to?
You do believe in keeping His commandments don't you?
Oh - that's right. Your salvation depends on how well you do at keeping them.
The Bible says without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For we are saved by grace THRU faith.So you are saved by the work of your faith? Are you then also kept by that faith? Well for me, I am saved and kept by the One who called to me and renewed me. I have hope in Him, not my faith.
I supplied a rather lengthy parable that illustrated the "goodness" of OSAS......I was looking more for a parable that you can make yourself personally so as to illustrate the goodness of OSAS. ...
Saved BY grace through faith.The Bible says without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For we are saved by grace THRU faith.
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I supplied a rather lengthy parable that illustrated the "goodness" of OSAS.
You said it didn't illustrate the goodness of OSAS while everyone else said that it did perfectly.
If I were Job8 I wouldn't bother writing a parable for you since you'll just reject it anyway.
What's with all of this parable silliness anyway?
Seems like after a dozen or so pages of trying to get someone to write you a parable you'd drop that particular angle.
I wish you'd just ask what I believe about God's justification of people through the faith that comes through hearing the gospel preached to them.Then what you believe is a contradiction. It doesn't matter if you preach the gospel because God just saves people despite the gospel. There is no power in that kind of gospel because it ultimately doesn't matter if one preaches that type of gospel in the long run. However, the Scriptures say the preaching of the cross is to perish foolishness. ...
Yes. That is what I said. An adult who is aware of right and wrong cannot be saved without faith.Saved BY grace through faith.
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