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Logic 102

Zosimus

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After repeatedly being chastened for logical fallacies, some scientists have gotten a little bit smarter. Rather than committing the same old logical errors, they have branched out into new and subtler forms. Let’s look at the following example:

Chimp and human DNA are more than 98 percent similar. While this does not prove that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, it is unlikely that this level of similarity could have happened by chance alone. Since humans have approximately 24,000 genes, finding greater than 98 percent correlation is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and having it come up heads every time. Therefore, no reasonable person can seriously doubt that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

The logical flaw in this argument is what we call the false dichotomy. The argument presupposes that there are only two explanations exist for chimp and DNA similarity. As the argument goes, either chimp and human DNA similarity is due to chance or the similarity is due to common descent. Since chance can be (mostly) ruled out, we must accept the theory of common descent.

Ask yourself this: Are those the only possibilities? Do the major opponents of the theory of common descent claim that the DNA similarity is due to chance? Well, no. The major opponents of common descent are either intelligent design advocates or Christian creationists (or maybe there is no difference between the two groups), and they certainly do not claim that DNA similarities came about by chance alone. Typically they claim that a hyper-intelligent being and/or God created both chimps and humans. If that is true, DNA similarity will be due to design and not to chance.

Another tactic, which is not a logical flaw strictly speaking, is the claim that it’s acceptable for science to commit logical fallacies because science does not use deductive logic but rather inductive logic. Even though this argument is like a Christian saying that 2+2 can equal 5 because Christianity doesn't rely on math to make its claims, I will take a few lines to destroy the argument that inductive reasoning is valid.

What is inductive reasoning? It is the claim that people can look at a few examples and derive a general rule that explains them all. For example, we can go out into the wild and see some white swans, go to the zoo and see some white swans, and watch a swan documentary and see some white swans. From this we can conclude that all swans are white. The problem with this is that black swans exist but are only in Australia. Accordingly, we can see that inductive reasoning can result in false conclusions even when all inputs are true.

More sophisticated scientists will say that although this is true, Bayesian statistics can overcome the problem of induction. Thomas Bayes was a Presbyterian minister who calculated that he could determine whether a line down his billiards table was exactly in the middle by throwing a large number of billiard balls onto the table in such a manner that they could land anywhere on the table. This method does not result in certainty, but it is believed to result in a certain statistical likelihood.

The reason why this argument generally doesn't work for science is because most scientific investigations are not comparable to throwing billiard balls on a table in such a way that they could land anywhere. Let’s look at the following argument to illustrate this point:
The radioactive half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years, plus or minus 10 percent. Multiple labs all across the United States and in other countries have conducted countless experiments and they have all confirmed that number. Accordingly, although the above argument is logically flawed (affirming the consequent), we can calculate the half-life at around 4.5 billion years with great statistical certainty.

The problem with this argument is that just as the billiard balls in Bayes’ example needed to be thrown out on the table in such a way that they would land anywhere, so too the U-238 half-life experiment needs to be conducted in such a way that the data points collected could come from anywhere during the 4.5 billion year half-life. Rather than doing so, all the data points have been collected in the past 100 years. As such the argument is comparable to saying that we could calculate whether a Democrat will win the next US presidential election by asking a large number of people who live in one small city block of New York who they plan to vote for.

Another logical fallacy we will look at is called “begging the question.” This formal fallacy involves assuming that what you set out to prove is true right from the start and then reasoning around in a circle to prove the initial premise true. This chain of circular logic is invalid. Here’s a common example:
We scientists have seen examples of evolution in Escherichia coli bacteria (E.coli) in our laboratories. We can, therefore, conclude that E.coli is also evolving out in the wild and has been doing so for millions of years. We know this because the past is a good guide to the future and so we know that future experiments will continue to show that E.coli is and has been evolving since the first E.coli bacterium existed. We know that the past is a good guide to the future because we have used it in the past, and it has always worked well. Accordingly, it will continue to do so in the future.

As you may have seen, the key to the argument is that the past is a good guide to the future because it has worked in the past and will (they assume) work well in the future. This is a prime example of “begging the question.” Here’s an example in practice:

The universe must be many billions of years old because we can see light from stars that are billions of light years away. Light travels at a constant speed of about 300,000 km/s. We know that the speed of light is constant because we have conducted tests in the past and we know that future tests will confirm this number (because the past is a good guide to the future) and so it is not possible that the speed of light was higher in the past.

This is a classic example of begging the question. The conclusion should be rejected.

The final argument is that although the logic is abysmally bad, the conclusion might still be true. After all, if we say: “All men are mortal. Carlos is mortal. Therefore, Carlos is a man” then our final conclusion is true even though the logic was bad. This argument misses the point. Although it’s true that bad logic can sometimes lead to correct answers, said answers cannot be considered proven. As such, the claim that genetic diversity can be explained by the process of evolution is on equal footing with the claim that Vishnu created and maintains the universe. A reasonable person, such as I, would be agnostic about both claims.
 

Zosimus

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What is stratigraphy?

Stratigraphy, commonly attributed to Charles Lyell, relies on the Law of Superposition. According to this law, soils that are deeply buried were laid down first. Of course this primitive method is no longer in use today; rather we have what is called the Harris Matrix, which was developed in 1973 by Edward Cecil Harris.

How do we know that the Harris Matrix works? Well, the Harris Matrix has been tested on sites of known antiquity and the results obtained have been consistent with what was already known.

Do you see the logical pattern? If the Harris Matrix works, then it will provide results consistent with what is already known. It provides results consistent with what is already known. Therefore, the Harris Matrix works. This is a classic example of the affirming the consequent logical fallacy that was mentioned in Logic 101.

So before you study biology, physics, chemistry, or any other science, first study the philosophy of science. You can start at http://philosophy.wisc.edu/forster/520/Chapter 1.pdf where we read:

According to inductivism, the problem is to understand how a hypothesis like “All planets move in ellipses” is supported by, or confirmed by, the fact that all the instances of the generalization observed so far have been true. One inductivist strategy is to ask what missing premise must be added to the argument to make it deductively valid, and then to evaluate the truth of the added premise. In our example, we could add the premise “Whatever is true of the observed planets is true of all planets”. This is a statement of the uniformity of nature. The problem with this statement is that it is plainly false! Not everything that is true of the observed planets is true of all planets. For one thing, the observed planets are closer to the sun than Neptune, or Pluto. The problem is that nature is uniform is some respects, but not in others.
When we try to refine the statement of the uniformity of nature to make it true, there is a danger of ending up with something like “The orbits of the observed planets have the same shape as the orbits of all planets”. But now the argument is circular, because whatever reason we have for believing that the added premise is true is that all the planets move on ellipses.
 
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lasthero

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The problem with this argument is that just as the billiard balls in Bayes’ example needed to be thrown out on the table in such a way that they would land anywhere, so too the U-238 half-life experiment needs to be conducted in such a way that the data points collected could come from anywhere during the 4.5 billion year half-life. Rather than doing so, all the data points have been collected in the past 100 years. As such the argument is comparable to saying that we could calculate whether a Democrat will win the next US presidential election by asking a large number of people who live in one small city block of New York who they plan to vote for.

Untrue. And if you'd like to argue the point, I'll point you towards an excellent topic for it.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7804268/
 
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essentialsaltes

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"What is inductive reasoning? It is the claim that people can look at a few examples and derive a general rule that explains them all. For example, we can go out into the wild and see some white swans, go to the zoo and see some white swans, and watch a swan documentary and see some white swans. From this we can conclude that all swans are white. The problem with this is that black swans exist but are only in Australia. Accordingly, we can see that inductive reasoning can result in false conclusions even when all inputs are true."

That is why scientific results (and inductive logic) are always tentative and subject to further modification on new evidence.

All of your complaints boil down to, "There is no logical proof."

Science never promised proof. This does not mean that its conclusions are inherently uncertain and should be rejected.
 
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And-U-Say

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What is stratigraphy?

<snipped for sanity>

But now the argument is circular, because whatever reason we have for believing that the added premise is true is that all the planets move on ellipses.

You really don't have this Science and logic thing down at all, do you. Did you even go to school?
 
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morningstar2651

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After repeatedly being chastened for logical fallacies, some scientists have gotten a little bit smarter. Rather than committing the same old logical errors, they have branched out into new and subtler forms. Let’s look at the following example:

Chimp and human DNA are more than 98 percent similar. While this does not prove that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, it is unlikely that this level of similarity could have happened by chance alone. Since humans have approximately 24,000 genes, finding greater than 98 percent correlation is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and having it come up heads every time. Therefore, no reasonable person can seriously doubt that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

The logical flaw in this argument is what we call the false dichotomy. The argument presupposes that there are only two explanations exist for chimp and DNA similarity. As the argument goes, either chimp and human DNA similarity is due to chance or the similarity is due to common descent. Since chance can be (mostly) ruled out, we must accept the theory of common descent.

Ask yourself this: Are those the only possibilities? Do the major opponents of the theory of common descent claim that the DNA similarity is due to chance? Well, no. The major opponents of common descent are either intelligent design advocates or Christian creationists (or maybe there is no difference between the two groups), and they certainly do not claim that DNA similarities came about by chance alone. Typically they claim that a hyper-intelligent being and/or God created both chimps and humans. If that is true, DNA similarity will be due to design and not to chance.

Another tactic, which is not a logical flaw strictly speaking, is the claim that it’s acceptable for science to commit logical fallacies because science does not use deductive logic but rather inductive logic. Even though this argument is like a Christian saying that 2+2 can equal 5 because Christianity doesn't rely on math to make its claims, I will take a few lines to destroy the argument that inductive reasoning is valid.

What is inductive reasoning? It is the claim that people can look at a few examples and derive a general rule that explains them all. For example, we can go out into the wild and see some white swans, go to the zoo and see some white swans, and watch a swan documentary and see some white swans. From this we can conclude that all swans are white. The problem with this is that black swans exist but are only in Australia. Accordingly, we can see that inductive reasoning can result in false conclusions even when all inputs are true.

More sophisticated scientists will say that although this is true, Bayesian statistics can overcome the problem of induction. Thomas Bayes was a Presbyterian minister who calculated that he could determine whether a line down his billiards table was exactly in the middle by throwing a large number of billiard balls onto the table in such a manner that they could land anywhere on the table. This method does not result in certainty, but it is believed to result in a certain statistical likelihood.

The reason why this argument generally doesn't work for science is because most scientific investigations are not comparable to throwing billiard balls on a table in such a way that they could land anywhere. Let’s look at the following argument to illustrate this point:
The radioactive half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years, plus or minus 10 percent. Multiple labs all across the United States and in other countries have conducted countless experiments and they have all confirmed that number. Accordingly, although the above argument is logically flawed (affirming the consequent), we can calculate the half-life at around 4.5 billion years with great statistical certainty.

The problem with this argument is that just as the billiard balls in Bayes’ example needed to be thrown out on the table in such a way that they would land anywhere, so too the U-238 half-life experiment needs to be conducted in such a way that the data points collected could come from anywhere during the 4.5 billion year half-life. Rather than doing so, all the data points have been collected in the past 100 years. As such the argument is comparable to saying that we could calculate whether a Democrat will win the next US presidential election by asking a large number of people who live in one small city block of New York who they plan to vote for.

Another logical fallacy we will look at is called “begging the question.” This formal fallacy involves assuming that what you set out to prove is true right from the start and then reasoning around in a circle to prove the initial premise true. This chain of circular logic is invalid. Here’s a common example:
We scientists have seen examples of evolution in Escherichia coli bacteria (E.coli) in our laboratories. We can, therefore, conclude that E.coli is also evolving out in the wild and has been doing so for millions of years. We know this because the past is a good guide to the future and so we know that future experiments will continue to show that E.coli is and has been evolving since the first E.coli bacterium existed. We know that the past is a good guide to the future because we have used it in the past, and it has always worked well. Accordingly, it will continue to do so in the future.

As you may have seen, the key to the argument is that the past is a good guide to the future because it has worked in the past and will (they assume) work well in the future. This is a prime example of “begging the question.” Here’s an example in practice:

The universe must be many billions of years old because we can see light from stars that are billions of light years away. Light travels at a constant speed of about 300,000 km/s. We know that the speed of light is constant because we have conducted tests in the past and we know that future tests will confirm this number (because the past is a good guide to the future) and so it is not possible that the speed of light was higher in the past.

This is a classic example of begging the question. The conclusion should be rejected.

The final argument is that although the logic is abysmally bad, the conclusion might still be true. After all, if we say: “All men are mortal. Carlos is mortal. Therefore, Carlos is a man” then our final conclusion is true even though the logic was bad. This argument misses the point. Although it’s true that bad logic can sometimes lead to correct answers, said answers cannot be considered proven. As such, the claim that genetic diversity can be explained by the process of evolution is on equal footing with the claim that Vishnu created and maintains the universe. A reasonable person, such as I, would be agnostic about both claims.

too long; didn't read
 
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Split Rock

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After repeatedly being chastened for logical fallacies, some scientists have gotten a little bit smarter. Rather than committing the same old logical errors, they have branched out into new and subtler forms. Let&#8217;s look at the following example:

Chimp and human DNA are more than 98 percent similar. While this does not prove that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, it is unlikely that this level of similarity could have happened by chance alone. Since humans have approximately 24,000 genes, finding greater than 98 percent correlation is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and having it come up heads every time. Therefore, no reasonable person can seriously doubt that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

The logical flaw in this argument is what we call the false dichotomy. The argument presupposes that there are only two explanations exist for chimp and DNA similarity. As the argument goes, either chimp and human DNA similarity is due to chance or the similarity is due to common descent. Since chance can be (mostly) ruled out, we must accept the theory of common descent.

Ask yourself this: Are those the only possibilities? Do the major opponents of the theory of common descent claim that the DNA similarity is due to chance? Well, no. The major opponents of common descent are either intelligent design advocates or Christian creationists (or maybe there is no difference between the two groups), and they certainly do not claim that DNA similarities came about by chance alone. Typically they claim that a hyper-intelligent being and/or God created both chimps and humans. If that is true, DNA similarity will be due to design and not to chance.

Another tactic, which is not a logical flaw strictly speaking, is the claim that it&#8217;s acceptable for science to commit logical fallacies because science does not use deductive logic but rather inductive logic. Even though this argument is like a Christian saying that 2+2 can equal 5 because Christianity doesn't rely on math to make its claims, I will take a few lines to destroy the argument that inductive reasoning is valid.

What is inductive reasoning? It is the claim that people can look at a few examples and derive a general rule that explains them all. For example, we can go out into the wild and see some white swans, go to the zoo and see some white swans, and watch a swan documentary and see some white swans. From this we can conclude that all swans are white. The problem with this is that black swans exist but are only in Australia. Accordingly, we can see that inductive reasoning can result in false conclusions even when all inputs are true.

More sophisticated scientists will say that although this is true, Bayesian statistics can overcome the problem of induction. Thomas Bayes was a Presbyterian minister who calculated that he could determine whether a line down his billiards table was exactly in the middle by throwing a large number of billiard balls onto the table in such a manner that they could land anywhere on the table. This method does not result in certainty, but it is believed to result in a certain statistical likelihood.

The reason why this argument generally doesn't work for science is because most scientific investigations are not comparable to throwing billiard balls on a table in such a way that they could land anywhere. Let&#8217;s look at the following argument to illustrate this point:
The radioactive half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years, plus or minus 10 percent. Multiple labs all across the United States and in other countries have conducted countless experiments and they have all confirmed that number. Accordingly, although the above argument is logically flawed (affirming the consequent), we can calculate the half-life at around 4.5 billion years with great statistical certainty.

The problem with this argument is that just as the billiard balls in Bayes&#8217; example needed to be thrown out on the table in such a way that they would land anywhere, so too the U-238 half-life experiment needs to be conducted in such a way that the data points collected could come from anywhere during the 4.5 billion year half-life. Rather than doing so, all the data points have been collected in the past 100 years. As such the argument is comparable to saying that we could calculate whether a Democrat will win the next US presidential election by asking a large number of people who live in one small city block of New York who they plan to vote for.

Another logical fallacy we will look at is called &#8220;begging the question.&#8221; This formal fallacy involves assuming that what you set out to prove is true right from the start and then reasoning around in a circle to prove the initial premise true. This chain of circular logic is invalid. Here&#8217;s a common example:
We scientists have seen examples of evolution in Escherichia coli bacteria (E.coli) in our laboratories. We can, therefore, conclude that E.coli is also evolving out in the wild and has been doing so for millions of years. We know this because the past is a good guide to the future and so we know that future experiments will continue to show that E.coli is and has been evolving since the first E.coli bacterium existed. We know that the past is a good guide to the future because we have used it in the past, and it has always worked well. Accordingly, it will continue to do so in the future.

As you may have seen, the key to the argument is that the past is a good guide to the future because it has worked in the past and will (they assume) work well in the future. This is a prime example of &#8220;begging the question.&#8221; Here&#8217;s an example in practice:

The universe must be many billions of years old because we can see light from stars that are billions of light years away. Light travels at a constant speed of about 300,000 km/s. We know that the speed of light is constant because we have conducted tests in the past and we know that future tests will confirm this number (because the past is a good guide to the future) and so it is not possible that the speed of light was higher in the past.

This is a classic example of begging the question. The conclusion should be rejected.

The final argument is that although the logic is abysmally bad, the conclusion might still be true. After all, if we say: &#8220;All men are mortal. Carlos is mortal. Therefore, Carlos is a man&#8221; then our final conclusion is true even though the logic was bad. This argument misses the point. Although it&#8217;s true that bad logic can sometimes lead to correct answers, said answers cannot be considered proven. As such, the claim that genetic diversity can be explained by the process of evolution is on equal footing with the claim that Vishnu created and maintains the universe. A reasonable person, such as I, would be agnostic about both claims.

Translation: "All of science should be rejected because it does not follow logical proofs used for mathematics. Aren't I a genius?"

I have a question for you Zosimus. If science is all crap because it isn't based on logical proofs, how is it that you are on the internet, using a computer, run by electicity, derived from a powerplant, all using technology developed via science? You cannot logically be doing this, therefore I logically conlcude that you do not exist.

Thank you everyone. :wave:
 
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And-U-Say

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Translation: "All of science should be rejected because it does not follow logical proofs used for mathematics. Aren't I a genius?"

I have a question for you Zosimus. If science is all crap because it isn't based on logical proofs, how is it that you are on the internet, using a computer, run by electicity, derived from a powerplant, all using technology developed via science? You cannot logically be doing this, therefore I logically conlcude that you do not exist.

Thank you everyone. :wave:


We have a winner!
 
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madaz

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As such, the claim that genetic diversity can be explained by the process of evolution is on equal footing with the claim that Vishnu created and maintains the universe.

I would suggest you peruse the evidence for evolution, perhaps only then you might realize that evolution is incomparable with man's creation myths.
 
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46AND2

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After repeatedly being chastened for logical fallacies, some scientists have gotten a little bit smarter. Rather than committing the same old logical errors, they have branched out into new and subtler forms. Let&#8217;s look at the following example:

Chimp and human DNA are more than 98 percent similar. While this does not prove that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, it is unlikely that this level of similarity could have happened by chance alone. Since humans have approximately 24,000 genes, finding greater than 98 percent correlation is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and having it come up heads every time. Therefore, no reasonable person can seriously doubt that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

The logical flaw in this argument is what we call the false dichotomy. The argument presupposes that there are only two explanations exist for chimp and DNA similarity. As the argument goes, either chimp and human DNA similarity is due to chance or the similarity is due to common descent. Since chance can be (mostly) ruled out, we must accept the theory of common descent.

Humans and Chimps share 200,000+ (99.9+% of them) endogenous retroviruses, orthologously in their genomes.

We have observed that humans share these same ERVs with each other through inheritance.

Since random chance that these viruses inserted themselves in the same locations is essentially nil, we are left with a dichotomy. Either humans and chimps share these ERVs through inheritance, or God created each of us that way.

Since we have observed this event through inheritance, and God is not deceitful, we share a common ancestor with chimps.

Funny thing is, though, this still isn't logical proof, in part because we have no idea if God is deceitful or not.




The radioactive half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years, plus or minus 10 percent. Multiple labs all across the United States and in other countries have conducted countless experiments and they have all confirmed that number. Accordingly, although the above argument is logically flawed (affirming the consequent), we can calculate the half-life at around 4.5 billion years with great statistical certainty.

The problem with this argument is that just as the billiard balls in Bayes&#8217; example needed to be thrown out on the table in such a way that they would land anywhere, so too the U-238 half-life experiment needs to be conducted in such a way that the data points collected could come from anywhere during the 4.5 billion year half-life. Rather than doing so, all the data points have been collected in the past 100 years. As such the argument is comparable to saying that we could calculate whether a Democrat will win the next US presidential election by asking a large number of people who live in one small city block of New York who they plan to vote for.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7803853/

If the decay constant for uranium-238 was inconsistent, it would not form a decay sphere consistent with its current alpha particle energy. If the decay constant was in flux, you would either get multiple, blurred, or no visible halos upon inspection of a cross-section of the sphere, depending on how much and how often the decay constant varied.
 
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sfs

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Translation: "All of science should be rejected because it does not follow logical proofs used for mathematics. Aren't I a genius?"

I have a question for you Zosimus. If science is all crap because it isn't based on logical proofs, how is it that you are on the internet, using a computer, run by electicity, derived from a powerplant, all using technology developed via science? You cannot logically be doing this, therefore I logically conlcude that you do not exist.
"Meehl attributed to the distinguished philosopher Morris Raphael Cohen the saying, 'All logic texts are divided into two parts. In the first part, on deductive logic, the fallacies are explained; in the second part, on inductive logic, they are committed.'"
-- "The Earth is Round (p < .05)", Jacob Cohen
 
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morningstar2651

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Some people have difficulty making the transition from Boolean logic & truth tables to Bayes' theorem & Bayesian probabilities.

In the real world, we have to make decisions with a degree of uncertainty. The choice to believe or disbelieve in the existence of God is once such choice. There is no certainty in the answer of that question - only probability.

Google's autonomous car doesn't know all the facts about the area around it. It makes observations and makes predictions based on what it observes. If new observations contradict its predictions, it makes new predictions based on new observations. If a pedestrian begins crossing an intersection that the car thought was clear to make a left turn in, it yields to the pedestrian.

1948674


How Google's Self-Driving Car Works - IEEE Spectrum
 
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Zosimus

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Translation: "All of science should be rejected because it does not follow logical proofs used for mathematics. Aren't I a genius?"

I have a question for you Zosimus. If science is all crap because it isn't based on logical proofs, how is it that you are on the internet, using a computer, run by electicity, derived from a powerplant, all using technology developed via science? You cannot logically be doing this, therefore I logically conlcude that you do not exist.

Thank you everyone. :wave:

How to Analyze Logical Arguments

Every logical argument can be broken down into three parts: The explicit parts consist of the conclusion (hereinafter the “main point”) and the premises (hereinafter the “reasons”). Let’s look at the following example:

Carlos has a good job. Carlos is tall. Therefore Carlos is attractive to women.

In this case finding the main point is simple. Words such as therefore, hence, thus, and accordingly signal us that the main point is coming up. The main point of this sample argument is “Carlos is attractive to women.” The rest of the argument can be broken up into either reasons or distractions by using the Why technique.

Example: Why is Carlos attractive to women? Answer: Because he has a good job and because he is tall. These two statements are the reasons of the argument.

Aside from the explicit parts of the argument, there may be one (or more) assumptions. Assumptions are never stated in the text. It is up to us to use our brains to supply them. In this case there are surprising words in the main point. The words “attractive” and “women” have not been previously mentioned. As such, the assumption must involve those two words. The assumption for this argument is “Women are attracted to tall men with good jobs.” This is what we call a causal assumption. Height and good jobs cause women to be attractive.

Once we have the assumption, we can test if we have the right assumption by using the following simple procedure: The negated assumption will kill the main point. Therefore if we rephrase the argument as: “Women are not attracted to tall men with good jobs” then we can see that the main point does not follow.

Now we will apply this procedure against your logical argument (if we can call it that) and try to make sense of it. Unfortunately for us, you have not phrased your argument very well. All you have said is, “If science is all crap because it isn't based on logical proofs, how is it that you are on the internet, using a computer, run by electicity (sic), derived from a powerplant (sic), all using technology developed via science?” Nevertheless, we can improve your argument for you by stating it in the following way:

The Internet, computers, electricity, and power plants all exist.
Therefore science works.

Since the word “science” was never mentioned in the reasons, the assumption will involve that word. The assumption is: “Science causes technological advances.” As you can easily see, if we negate this assumption then it kills the main point.

Now it falls to us to weaken this argument. It is a causal argument with a causal assumption. Accordingly we can weaken this argument by eliminating the cause and showing that the effect remains.

As you may or may not know, science as we know it was invented in the early 1800s. The word “scientist” did not exist until 1834. Accordingly any technological progress obtained before the 1800s would be ample proof that science is not the cause of technological progress.

As you can read at 18th Eighteenth Century Inventions 1700 to 1799 there were dozens of technological innovations and inventions in the 18th century (pre-science) and so it cannot be logically claimed that science is the sole cause of technological inventions.

Some people, however, object to the claim that scientists did not exist before the 1800s. They claim that this was merely a name change and that prior to 1800 scientists did exist, but were known as “natural philosophers.” This claim can be found, among other places, on the Wikipedia entry at Natural philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sir Isaac Newton, it is argued, should be considered a scientist because he wrote papers entitled “The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy” and thus has every right to be considered a scientist.

Unfortunately, even if this argument were true, it would render such inventors and innovators as Galileo non-scientists because Galileo was not a natural philosopher but rather a medical school dropout. Additionally many of the people mentioned on the above list made inventions or innovations and were not natural philosophers. People such as John Shore, Thomas Newcomen, and John Campbell were not natural philosophers and yet created inventions that predated science. Additionally, many technological innovations such as the wheel and fire predated natural philosophy.

Accordingly the claim that science is the cause of technological progress is refuted. Human technological progress is now, as it has always been, proportional to total human population worldwide. It should be obvious that 7 billion people will make twice the number of technological advances a 3.5 billion will.
 
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And-U-Say

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How to Analyze Logical Arguments

<snipped for sanity>

Accordingly the claim that science is the cause of technological progress is refuted. Human technological progress is now, as it has always been, proportional to total human population worldwide. It should be obvious that 7 billion people will make twice the number of technological advances a 3.5 billion will.
There are some nice bits and pieces here, but overall it is handled poorly. You seem to believe that complicated phenomena can be reduced to simple phrases to be acted upon by philosophy. There is a lot in the history of Science you either don't know or just don't want to know. The Scientific method has been vastly more helpful than just the addition of people. Scientific progress was at a virtual standstill during the Roman Empire because they believed (perhaps like you do) that the natural world could be understood just by thinking about it. This was, or course, very wrong and we can be thankful that this model only survives in certain philosophy departments, perhaps the one you went to.
 
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essentialsaltes

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essentialsaltes said:
If Zosimus existed, he would post a reply in this thread...

Zosimus posted a reply in this thread.

I was tempted to conclude that Zosimus exists, but that would be affirming the consequent. This line of reasoning should be rejected.

So Split Rock is probably right that Zosimus doesn't exist.
 
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Split Rock

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Accordingly the claim that science is the cause of technological progress is refuted. Human technological progress is now, as it has always been, proportional to total human population worldwide. It should be obvious that 7 billion people will make twice the number of technological advances a 3.5 billion will.

HA, HA, HA! You are a funny guy. Science leads to nothing, eh? Why? Because it wasn't called "science" untill the 1800s. Yeah.. that sure is a "logical" argument.

Electromagnetism? Nothing.
Cell theory? nothing.
Thermodynamics? nothing.
Germ theory? nothing.

Those satellites in outer space got there by the wishful thinking of couch potatoes who do nothing but think up logical refutations of reality...like yourself... right? ;)
 
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DogmaHunter

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Chimp and human DNA are more than 98 percent similar. While this does not prove that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, it is unlikely that this level of similarity could have happened by chance alone. Since humans have approximately 24,000 genes, finding greater than 98 percent correlation is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and having it come up heads every time. Therefore, no reasonable person can seriously doubt that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

The logical flaw in this argument is what we call the false dichotomy. The argument presupposes that there are only two explanations exist for chimp and DNA similarity. As the argument goes, either chimp and human DNA similarity is due to chance or the similarity is due to common descent. Since chance can be (mostly) ruled out, we must accept the theory of common descent.

You're misrepresenting the evidence.
The argument is not at all "similarity, therefor common descent".

It's actually a combination of things that lead to the, what I would call "factual", conclusion of common descent.

First, there's the knowledge on the role of DNA and how it works from generation to generation.
This means: inheritance and variation.
Each new born inherits the dna of its parents and adds a couple of unique variations of its own through mutations.

This is why we can do DNA tests to see if your dad is your actual dad.
This means that family trees will show hierarchically structured DNA. It's perfectly possible to build family trees, purely by comparing DNA and mapping it out based on this comparison.

We can do the same on species level.
So, it's not "just" the 98% similarity. It's a combination of the hierarchy of the genetics AND the similarity.
We share most with chimps. A little less with gorilla's. A little less with oerang oetangs. Even less with monkeys. Even less with lions. etc.
Now, we can go and compare anatomy between these creatures and map them again in the same way. We can use entire bone structures, teeth, single bones, etc.

The same tree results.

Now, we can go and look in the fossil record and see if it matches this "phylogenetic tree". And it does.

Then, we can go and look at geographic distribution of these species and look again if it matches this tree. And it does.

And in all of these independent fields (comparative genetics, comparative anatomy, paleontology, etc) NOT A SINGLE EXCEPTION can be found.

The phylogenetic tree, furthermore, can be drawn from several genetic angles. You can go an compare entire genomes, gene sequences or individual genes or genetic markers. We don't encounter something that doesn't fit this family tree.

Take ERV's. Genetic remnants of infections in ancestors. The only way to share ERV's between creatures, is if these creatures share ancestors. Well, in all fairness... there's a one in (3000 * 3 billion) chance that you share one without common ancestry. There are some 3000 known endogenous viruses and some 3 billion places in the human genome where it could end up after infection (insertion place is random).

But this quickly rises exponentially.
For sharing 2 ERV's without common ancestry, that chance becomes one in (3000 * 3 billion)². For 3, it becomes (3000 * 3 billion)³. Etc. While the chance of sharing ERV's with creatures through common ancestry is... one in one - no matter how many you share. It's expected and predicted.

We share PLENTY of erv's with chimps. We share a little less with gorilla's. Even less with oerang oetangs. Lesser still with lions.

It fits. It looks EXACTLY like it should look if life has a common ancestor.

And there's millions of examples like this.
Take the human second chromosome. Chromosomes have markers at the end. We have 23 chromosome pairs while the other primates all have 24. So now, evolution theory can make a prediction...
If we share ancestry, primate chromosomes must have fused in the homo bloodline at some point.
Behold, the second human chromosome. The markers that mark the "end" of a chromosome are found smack down in the middle of this one. It's a fused chromosome. If we pull it apart in that exact spot... what do we get? A perfect match with chromosome 2 and 13 in chimpansee's.
It's a perfect fit. Chromosome 13 fused into our second one at some point.

Because of all this, common ancestry is pretty much undeniable. It's nothing short of fact.

So when you hear people speak about genetic "similarity", realize that the word "similarity" is not just something like "it looks alike".
Rather, it means "it's hierarchically a perfect fit, exactly what we expect to see from common ancestry, without any exception whatsoever".
 
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