Loch Ness Monster debunks evolution

[Split Rock]

The lake is 23 miles long (that's 121,440 feet) and is 755 ft deep at it's deepest point. It is the largest Scottish lake by volume though it is second in surface area. It contains more freshwater than all the lakes in England and Wales combined.

And the first mention of good old Nessie goes back to 565 AD by St Columba who saw the animal twice that year. He was a priest who had nothing to gain by spreading a lie, but everything to lose if it were ever to be found out that he was lying.

In Christ, GB

Plesiosaurs were air breathers. There is no doubt we would have unqualified evidence if there were any plesiosaurs living in the lake. All we have are fakes, frauds, hoaxes (aren't you guys experts on those?) and silly stories told by people who want attention. Many natural phenomena occur on the lake that explain the "sightings" of Nessie. These include logs, waves from boats, and known animals. The locals make plenty of money from tourists from "Nessie," but its got nothing to do with any real animal.

 

[good brother]

Yep, sometimes it's the best you've got, which is why attorneys either love or hate them, because there are people like you who will believe anything.

BTW, I read the wiki account of St. Columba, and this part made me laugh;

Wow. You quoted wiki. I think you should know that I never put much stock in anything Wiki has to say especially when it deals with anything of the Christian nature. Often those articles are so far slanted that they run parallel with the horizon.

"They tried to rescue him in a boat, but were able only to drag up his corpse. Hearing this, Columba stunned the Picts by sending his follower Luigne moccu Min to swim across the river. The beast came after him, but Columba made the sign of the cross and commanded: "Go no further. Do not touch the man. Go back at once."[18] The beast immediately halted as if it had been "pulled back with ropes" and fled in terror, and both Columba's men and the pagan Picts praised God for the miracle."

I have had many miracles occur in my own life that were far beyond explanation or human understanding. If I were you, I would not dismiss what you have not seen or experienced.

Take this selective attention test and see how you do.
selective attention test - YouTube

I counted 17 passes because I assumed two when players had their backs to me, only later to find out there had only been 15 passes. And yes, I saw the gorilla suit the first time.


In Christ, GB

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Wow. You quoted wiki. I think you should know that I never put much stock in anything Wiki has to say especially when it deals with anything of the Christian nature. Often those articles are so far slanted that they run parallel with the horizon.

I have had many miracles occur in my own life that were far beyond explanation or human understanding. If I were you, I would not dismiss what you have not seen or experienced.

Yes, I quoted Wiki. It's much more reliable than you suggest. Additionally, the quote I posted was heavily sourced. If you find the quote to be in error, please point it out.

Reliability of Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for miracles, I acccept you experienced something you could not explain, but that does not mean it has a supernatural explanation. Our mind plays tricks on us all the time, and if we don't guard against personal bias, we often resort to supernatural agenticity.

 

[Loudmouth]

The lake is 23 miles long (that's 121,440 feet) and is 755 ft deep at it's deepest point. It is the largest Scottish lake by volume though it is second in surface area. It contains more freshwater than all the lakes in England and Wales combined.

First of all, the ACE textbook gets the real facts wrong. Plesiosaurs aren't even dinosaurs. They were marine reptiles. Secondly, finding modern dinosaurs would not falsify the theory of evolution. In fact, there are tens of thousands of modern dinosaur species. We call them birds.

Secondly, you would need a breeding population of plesiosaurs to keep these observations going. These are air breathing, egg laying reptiles just like crocodiles. How hard is it to find crocodiles in the wild? How much easier would it be to find crocodiles 10 times their normal size?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

First of all, the ACE textbook gets the real facts wrong. Plesiosaurs aren't even dinosaurs. They were marine reptiles. Secondly, finding modern dinosaurs would not falsify the theory of evolution. In fact, there are tens of thousands of modern dinosaur species. We call them birds.

Secondly, you would need a breeding population of plesiosaurs to keep these observations going. These are air breathing, egg laying reptiles just like crocodiles. How hard is it to find crocodiles in the wild? How much easier would it be to find crocodiles 10 times their normal size?

People always tend to ignore the fact that these cryptos must have adequate breeding populations to sustain.

 

[Illuminaughty]

I had an experience like that with the Loch Ness Plesiosaur myself. My ship sank and I was swimming toward the shore but I just wasn't strong enough. Along came a Pleasiosaur so I made the sign of the cross. He then let me ride on his back like a horse would. I was taken safely to shore and then I showed all the pagans how wrong they are.

 

[good brother]

Reliability of Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's awesome.

Ask a Encyclopedia Brittainica publisher which is the best encyclopedia.
Ask a Cubs fan which team is the best.
Ask a Hoover vacuum salesperson which vacuum cleaner everyone should own.



How would you react to me saying the Bible is accurate and true and used 2nd Timothy 3:16 as proof? By the way, 2nd Timothy 3:16 states, "All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness."

Since I just proved the Bible is all breathed out by God and is useful for teaching, then it would be good to have it taught in the classroom. What would you say to that? I bet you wouldn't accept it as true.


In Christ, GB

 

[good brother]

.

double post

 

[CaliforniaSun]

That's awesome.

Ask a Encyclopedia Brittainica publisher which is the best encyclopedia.
Ask a Cubs fan which team is the best.
Ask a Hoover vacuum salesperson which vacuum cleaner everyone should own.



How would you react to me saying the Bible is accurate and true and used 2nd Timothy 3:16 as proof? By the way, 2nd Timothy 3:16 states, "All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness."

Since I just proved the Bible is all breathed out by God and is useful for teaching, then it would be good to have it taught in the classroom. What would you say to that? I bet you wouldn't accept it as true.


In Christ, GB

*sigh

The article was heavily sourced and actually lists studies used to determine the accuracy of wiki entries. There are over 1,600 editors for English Wiki alone, and 42% of all mistakes are corrected almost immediately! Wiki utilizes a collaborative editing process which virtually insures the information to be correct. Your bible does not enjoy this self correcting process, which is why it's known as dogma and unwilling to change in the face of contradicting evidence.

Perhaps someday your heuristic may come to inlcude how to properly evaluate claims and determine their veracity.

 

[RickG]

The lake is 23 miles long (that's 121,440 feet) and is 755 ft deep at it's deepest point. It is the largest Scottish lake by volume though it is second in surface area. It contains more freshwater than all the lakes in England and Wales combined.

And the first mention of good old Nessie goes back to 565 AD by St Columba who saw the animal twice that year. He was a priest who had nothing to gain by spreading a lie, but everything to lose if it were ever to be found out that he was lying.

In Christ, GB

Just a few basic facts.

• All of the lochs in Scotland are a remnant of the Pleistocene glaciation. They were frozen glaciers up until 12,000 years ago.
• Plesiosaurs were aquatic reptiles, they couldn't possible live in cold water.
• There are no Plesiosaur fossils post the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction boundary (65.5 Ma).
• Loch Ness is a fresh water loch. Plesiosaurs lived in a marine environment, not fresh water.

 

[RickG]

That's awesome.

Ask a Encyclopedia Brittainica publisher which is the best encyclopedia.
Ask a Cubs fan which team is the best.
Ask a Hoover vacuum salesperson which vacuum cleaner everyone should own.

In Christ, GB

That is why I reference the scientific literature. Now, your source for Nessie is what?

 

[good brother]

*sigh

The article was heavily sourced and actually lists studies used to determine the accuracy of wiki entries. There are over 1,600 editors for English Wiki alone, and 42% of all mistakes are corrected almost immediately! Wiki utilizes a collaborative editing process which virtually insures the information to be correct. Your bible does not enjoy this self correcting process, which is why it's known as dogma and unwilling to change in the face of contradicting evidence.

Perhaps someday your heuristic may come to inlcude how to properly evaluate claims and determine their veracity.

If you don't like what I tell you the first time, I'll go back and reexamine my claims and give you a second opinion on my first opinion!


It is almost amazing how circular reasoning works for the secularists but never for the God followers. In fact, people who tried to disprove the Bible by stating the author of such and such a book had no idea of what they were talking about because this little village never existed or that king never lived or whatever have ALWAYS proven the Bible to be correct on matters which can be verified. But facts are ignored in favor of a presupposition that the Bible is incorrect.


In Christ, GB

 

[CaliforniaSun]

If you don't like what I tell you the first time, I'll go back and reexamine my claims and give you a second opinion on my first opinion!


It is almost amazing how circular reasoning works for the secularists but never for the God followers. In fact, people who tried to disprove the Bible by stating the author of such and such a book had no idea of what they were talking about because this little village never existed or that king never lived or whatever have ALWAYS proven the Bible to be correct on matters which can be verified. But facts are ignored in favor of a presupposition that the Bible is incorrect.


In Christ, GB

You keep ignoring the fact that these Wiki entries are sourced >>> check it out for yourself.

As for your bible, "ALWAYS" being correct, what source do you have for Quirinius ordering a census for the entire Roman empire?

 

[good brother]

That is why I reference the scientific literature. Now, your source for Nessie is what?

Eye witnesses. What is your source for the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of our LORD and Savior? Eye witnesses.

Now, do not get me wrong, I am not stating that I believe one hundred percent that Nessie even exists, but I am willing to look at the accounts given through time before I utterly dismiss the postulation that something of that nature may live in the waters. Of course, I also believe the Bible when it states that man was created on the same day as all the land animals and that would include dinosaurs. Now, I know that people will automatically state that a pleisosaur was not a dinosaur. I am not saying it was. I am just saying that I believe man was created on the day after God created any and all marine creatures including Nessie. One 24 hour day separated the creation of marine reptiles and man. So unless there was an extinction level event on that fateful first Thursday evening after God made them, they probably survived through to the next day to see the arrival of the crowning moment in all creation, the creation of man in the image of God.


In Christ, GB

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Eye witnesses. What is your source for the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of our LORD and Savior? Eye witnesses.

Now, do not get me wrong, I am not stating that I believe one hundred percent that Nessie even exists, but I am willing to look at the accounts given through time before I utterly dismiss the postulation that something of that nature may live in the waters. Of course, I also believe the Bible when it states that man was created on the same day as all the land animals and that would include dinosaurs. Now, I know that people will automatically state that a pleisosaur was not a dinosaur. I am not saying it was. I am just saying that I believe man was created on the day after God created any and all marine creatures including Nessie. One 24 hour day separated the creation of marine reptiles and man. So unless there was an extinction level event on that fateful first Thursday evening after God made them, they probably survived through to the next day to see the arrival of the crowning moment in all creation, the creation of man in the image of God.


In Christ, GB

Yes, everything is provisional, either there is enough evidence to support an assertion, or there isn't. At this point in time, there is no reason to believe something like Nessie exists.

As for the resurrection, you should check this out.

Excavating the Empty Tomb | Watch Free Documentary Online

 

[Split Rock]

Eye witnesses. What is your source for the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of our LORD and Savior? Eye witnesses.

Now, do not get me wrong, I am not stating that I believe one hundred percent that Nessie even exists, but I am willing to look at the accounts given through time before I utterly dismiss the postulation that something of that nature may live in the waters. Of course, I also believe the Bible when it states that man was created on the same day as all the land animals and that would include dinosaurs. Now, I know that people will automatically state that a pleisosaur was not a dinosaur. I am not saying it was. I am just saying that I believe man was created on the day after God created any and all marine creatures including Nessie. One 24 hour day separated the creation of marine reptiles and man. So unless there was an extinction level event on that fateful first Thursday evening after God made them, they probably survived through to the next day to see the arrival of the crowning moment in all creation, the creation of man in the image of God.


In Christ, GB

What do you think of a school that teaches students that Nessie is a real Plesiosaur living in a lake in Scotland and that this falsifies the theory of evolution?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

What do you think of a school that teaches students that Nessie is a real Plesiosaur living in a lake in Scotland and that this falsifies the theory of evolution?

Apparently there are some who would have us teach anything that's ever been written down as true, regardless of evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes, everything is provisional, either there is enough evidence to support an assertion, or there isn't. At this point in time, there is no reason to believe something like Nessie exists.

There is every reason to believe that Nessie does not exist, or at least a plesiosaur. First, you need a breeding population, not an isolated individual. Second, these are AIR BREATHING REPTILES. They would hide as well as a 100 foot alligator. IOW, pretty easy to spot. They also need to lay eggs on land since their offspring need to breath air as well.

Surely you can see the problems with all of this. How can such a creature hide so well? It can't. This doesn't even touch on the lack of resources available in the loch itself.

 

[NailsII]

The lake is 23 miles long (that's 121,440 feet) and is 755 ft deep at it's deepest point. It is the largest Scottish lake by volume though it is second in surface area. It contains more freshwater than all the lakes in England and Wales combined.

And the first mention of good old Nessie goes back to 565 AD by St Columba who saw the animal twice that year. He was a priest who had nothing to gain by spreading a lie, but everything to lose if it were ever to be found out that he was lying.

Unfortunately, nothing you actually wrote there is relevant.
Loch Ness was thoroughly investigated using sonar a few years ago (I'm sure I could find a link if anyone wants a source) and found nothing.
The logical interpretation of this finding is.....

What do you think of a school that teaches students that Nessie is a real Plesiosaur living in a lake in Scotland and that this falsifies the theory of evolution?

I think it is an absolute disgrace, to be honest.

 

[RickG]

Eye witnesses. What is your source for the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of our LORD and Savior? Eye witnesses.

This is not one of the CFs apologetics forums, It is one of the CFs science forums. Please stay on topic. You made a comment about Wiki being an unreliable source. I commented that the sources I reference are from the scientific literature and asked your source for evidence that Nessie exists and is a Plesiosaur. No "claimed" eye witness has any corroborated evidence. None.


Here are some sources from the scientific literature about Plesiosaurs. I have taken the time to source documents which are open access to all. Please take the time to review them. Thank you.

http://www.science.marshall.edu/okeefef/PDFS/JP04.pdf

http://webh01.ua.ac.be/funmorph/raoul/fylsyst/Okeefe2002.pdf

http://palaeontology.palass-pubs.org/pdf/Vol 37/Pages 941-953.pdf

http://www.plesiosauria.com/pdf/smith&dyke_2008.pdf

http://science.marshall.edu/okeefef/PDFS/OKeefe_Carrano_2005.pdf

http://reocities.com/Athens/bridge/4602/pleisiosaur.pdf

http://www.science.marshall.edu/okeefef/PDFS/OKeefeStreet2009.pdf