living with girlfriend, is it wrong?

I guess I´m going to get some of You irritaded at me first, before You read my second part - but I´ll live with it!
My logical intelligence gives Estefana right! When getting married as a virgin, You gamble! You might win; You might lose...


BUT - and that is part two, when You stop throwing tomatoes and eggs on me - for some reason God wants it that way!
I followed Gods will when I married, for ONE reason: Jesus in no.1 in my life and He prefers His people being virgin when marrying. For that reason alone, I obeyed. Actually, He needs not explain for me WHY He wants something; as long as He tells me THAT He wants it, so that I can obey...

A lot of people will probebly tell how much better this is... I doubt it! (Tomatoes and eggs in air again!)
But for me this is a matter of obediance!
Gods will be done!

Febe,

You got it: we submit in total obedience to God and put our trust in HIM -- not ourselves.

Why? Because He is infinitely wiser than we will ever be and has our best interest at heart at all times.

Of course, the idea of "how do you know the shoe will fit if you don't try it on first" in regards to marital relations is a primarily Western mindset. This is something many people don't seem to understand.

A very large number of eastern cultures still practice arranged marriages. Before you all start gasping about how horrible that is, just consider the way they think about marriage.

We here in the west have romanticized marriage so much that it's set onto a pedestal of love that no one ever reaches. People think that you should only get married if you truly and fully are flipped head over heels in love with that person, such a love that can only be undying and that will remain in you until you die. Get real.

You don't even need to be in love to make a marriage successful. Eastern culture is evidence enough for this. I have a friend who's parents were born and raised in India. When she asked her mother if she loved her husband, her mother's reply was "of course I love him, he's my husband."

You see, sure, it would be wonderful and great if every marriage started out with a couple who were so far gone in love that they couldn't walk straight on most sunny days, and it would be great if every married couple was completely and entirely compatible and a perfect match for each other. The reality of the matter is that nobody is likely ever to meet their perfect match, and even if they could, that wouldn't guarantee a successful marriage.

It has been said many times in this thread already. Marriage is about commitment. Marriage isn't about being "in love" with your partner. Marriage is about "loving" your partner.

"Trial marriages" are a complete contradiction to the way real marriages work. They cater to a fantasy. The only perfectly faithful marriage partner is God. It is Jesus Christ to His bride, the Church. He is the perfect model, for despite how many times we fail, how many times we are unfaithful to Him, He will always remain faithful to us.

And of course the Church, in her great wisdom, has taken steps to deal with the problems of divorce, and it has nothing to do with "trial marriages." No, instead the Church recommends at least two years of dating before getting married, so that you have time to understand each other's viewpoints about important issues, such as child-rearing, or religion. For the sake of a stable environment for the child's development, couples should be in agreement in those important aspecst of life (and, if the couple can overcome their own selfishnesses, full agreement would be ideal). So, two years dating is recommended. Furthermore, the Church provides marriage courses which the couple is asked to take part in prior to getting married. These courses help the couple to understand major issues that arise in marriage, as well as bring to light any major issues that the couple might have with each other that they didn't even know they had.

Trial marriages are unacceptible. (<<period)

I haven't read this thread, but I just wanted to give a little tidbit.

Beyond the immoral reasons why you shouldn't you live with a girlfriend (near occasion of sin, scandal for others), the rate of divorce for those who cohabitate before marriage is really high, something like 75-80%. I don't know the practical reasons for this, but I do know that marriages which are not centered around God's grace will have a tough time surviving.

I would Definately disagree with it... Even though you may not be sleeping with her it DOES leave room for Thought. It might also bring up the thought on whether or not you respect her... I know that if my boyfriend agreed on living with me He doesnt respect that we are not married.... I say wait till your married... but what do I know???

Now comes to this question that I have in my mind. What if two people are engaged to be married? Do they still have to live seperately or can they move in?

separately. it would be no different than if they were dating.

sex is for marriage. that's why the wedding night and honeymoon are supposed to be so special.

It seems to me that it would be easer and conveniant to have one's signifigant other (if they are engaged of course) move in sometime before the wedding day so that neather couple would be inconvenianced on lugging their belongs and furnature into the other SO's house.

I understand about living separately before marrage, but the thing I dont understand is how do they corridanate on the longistics of moving furnature and belonings into a SO's house .

Ok I have to disagree with everyone that said yes.

I have reasoning behind this, so bear with me.

Three and a half years ago, my now fiance and I were talking about moving in together.

I am Catholic as you all know, he is not.

He works for a monestary and talked with one of the Brothers there about this.

And we have talked with the priest at my church and with the Deacon who is going to marry us.

And believe it or not, some of the churches are starting to modernize toward this concept, because more couples are moving in together before marriage.

And they are ok with it, sort of.

Yes, premarrital sex is still a sin. But living with one another isnt. How can your church tell you who you can live with?

Dennis and I were completely commited to one another at the time we started house hunting and when we bought the house he proposed and we were engaged before we moved in.

And I would have to say, if we would have never moved in with each other before we got married, I dont think that we would have survived after being married. We have gone through ups and downs and have grown so much closer to each other in living with each other that we would have never known,

I think if we would have moved out of our parents houses into our own living spaces seperate from each other we would have grown to independant and to set in our ways to work through the things that we have worked through.

So No, in some churches it is looked down upon but you will not be shuned in the Catholic church for living together.

Nic

The Catholic Church may not shun you, but they are responsible for us. Our priests are the shepherds and we are the flock.... They need to direct us in the right and moral way, in all things.

Kusanagi said:

I understand about living separately before marrage, but the thing I dont understand is how do they corridanate on the longistics of moving furnature and belonings into a SO's house .

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When I married, about 24 years ago, we moved the furniture the weeks before, and my belongings the days before... And I moved myself after the wedding. My fiance/husband had moved himself to the flat about a mounth earlier...

Kusanagi said:

It seems to me that it would be easer and conveniant to have one's signifigant other (if they are engaged of course) move in sometime before the wedding day so that neather couple would be inconvenianced on lugging their belongs and furnature into the other SO's house.

I understand about living separately before marrage, but the thing I dont understand is how do they corridanate on the longistics of moving furnature and belonings into a SO's house .

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It can be worked out. I will be getting married in 3 weeks. We bought a house about 3 weeks ago. This past weekend we moved my stuff into the house and a good portion of her stuff that she won't need until after our wedding. The week after the wedding we'll finish moving her stuff in and she'll move in.

God sees all and knows all...We will give account one day...We are to walk in a way thay would not cause one weaker in the faith to stumble..AVOID all (appearance) of evil.. Good godly wisdom has been given here by many...Remember we either feed the flesh or we feed the Spirit..pax..kim

HisKid1973 said:

God sees all and knows all...We will give account one day...We are to walk in a way thay would not cause one weaker in the faith to stumble..AVOID all (appearance) of evil.. Good godly wisdom has been given here by many...Remember we either feed the flesh or we feed the Spirit..pax..kim

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I ask that you heed your own advice. You make it sound as though the flesh were evil. We are not gnostics, the flesh is good and is also to be fed. We are not to feed either one or the other, we are to feed both, together, in truth and justice. Marriage is the physical and spiritual union, and covenant between a man and a woman. Outside of marriage, the covenant is lacking, which binds the two spiritually. Thus, only the physical is fed rightly. The two may find a spiritual connection, but not the full and proper one found in marriage. The spirit and flesh are in accord. We feed both, together, or we die.

Redstiletto said:

And I would have to say, if we would have never moved in with each other before we got married, I dont think that we would have survived after being married. We have gone through ups and downs and have grown so much closer to each other in living with each other that we would have never known,

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So you didn't break up despite these ups and downs while living together, but you would have, had you been married? Why is that?

ufonium2 said:

So you didn't break up despite these ups and downs while living together, but you would have, had you been married? Why is that?

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Because we were able to bend more. We are more free without being married before we moved in together.

If we would have waited until marriage, then the times that were rough, and I mean we have had some rough times. I think we would have both just quit. Because they were problems with not being ready for marriage.

I mean, we put off our wedding about 6 times in the last three years, because we werent ready. If we would have jumped into marriage before moving out together then we wouldnt have lasted this long.

We both agree on this point. We actually talk about that alot.

We are a lot closer now though.

And I am happy we lived together first.

So your saying the bond you had as co-habitants was stronger than as a married couple?

How does that make sense?

Redstiletto said:

Because we were able to bend more. We are more free without being married before we moved in together.

If we would have waited until marriage, then the times that were rough, and I mean we have had some rough times. I think we would have both just quit. Because they were problems with not being ready for marriage.

I mean, we put off our wedding about 6 times in the last three years, because we werent ready. If we would have jumped into marriage before moving out together then we wouldnt have lasted this long.

We both agree on this point. We actually talk about that alot.

We are a lot closer now though.

And I am happy we lived together first.

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Nic, if you lived together first, then you were sinning if you were sleeping together. Indicating that you're happy you did it that way does speak to any repentance on the matter. I would urge you to still seek counsel about the fact that you're happy you lived in sin first through a priest. This is something that I did as well, but was truly remorseful about and had to confess. I urge you to look at things a little bit deeper.

Michelle

Redstiletto said:

Yes, premarrital sex is still a sin. But living with one another isnt. How can your church tell you who you can live with?

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The Catholic Church can because the Catholic Church knows what is best for you.

The only exception the Holy See has made for this type of situation is for people who are Catholic and married outside of the Church or have kids, who are repentant, and who plan to convalidate and seek the right path. IN that case, the Holy See says you can live together, but each situation is left to the discretion of their priest. And the couple is to live as brother and sister until the marriage is convalidated. And even THEN, the priest may very well withhold the Sacraments until the marriage is fixed just due to the appearance of things.

I don't know who these monks and brothers are that you speak of, Nic, but they sound a bit too modern for me.

Michelle

See this is where you are wrong. Yes I am not saying living with him wasnt a sin, because I will admit, yes we sin.

But the act of just living with him is not a sin. Brother Ben and Father Yvon approved it, and they both work for the Catholic Church. My priest, Father Larry said it was fine, and so did our Deacon Bill. And even through the Focus couple that we met with, in order to get married, they said that the Catholic church is adapting more and more to younger couples because they are living together before marriage more and more.

Brother Ben said there was nothing wrong with it because we were excepting each other as the one we were going to marry. We were engaged before we moved in together, I had already promised him my hand in marriage, but because of money and peoples schedules we were not able to get married until this summer. Which I am perfectly happy with.

And I am not saying we are stronger as an unmarried couple, because we have yet to be married, but I am saying is living together helped us get over our differences when we did it on our own and faced both financial joining and coexisting. That made us stronger, and it made us who we are today, and eventhough we almost ended it a few times down the road, we are still together and growing stronger and closer every day.