Living together-Sin?

[explodingboy]

True, but living in the same house as your friend/boyfriend/girlfriend/fiancé is NOT sin in any way shape or form, and the bible doesn't in any way say that it is, either - no wonder really, because what could possibly be sinful about it in the first place?

I'm sick of christians MAKING UP sins and then accusing each other for committing them. It's shameful.

This I'd agree with.

(where is the avatar from, I swear I've seen it before)

 

[meblonde]

True, but living in the same house as your friend/boyfriend/girlfriend/fiancé is NOT sin in any way shape or form, and the bible doesn't in any way say that it is, either - no wonder really, because what could possibly be sinful about it in the first place?

I'm sick of christians MAKING UP sins and then accusing each other for committing them. It's shameful.

But you already said you have sex with your girlfriend..

 

[holo]

But you already said you have sex with your girlfriend..

Yes I did, and I don't mind discussing that, but the issue here isn't sex, but where people choose to live.

 

[meblonde]

Yes I did, and I don't mind discussing that, but the issue here isn't sex, but where people choose to live.

if people can live together with out sex. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I don't think they can.. Temptations kicks in..
and if you go back to the start of this thread that is what I was asking..

 

[holo]

if people can live together with out sex. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I don't think they can.. Temptations kicks in..

You think too lowly of people. Your problem, then, is really with pre-marital sex, not with where people choose to live.

 

[Sunset2009]

I'm going to reply to the OP. I think meblonde is boggle minded about how some people can claim to follow Christ, yet live a life of sin.

Some may think Christians have turned premarital sex into the deadliest sin EVER, and that you must be a virgin in order to get into heaven. That might be because there is a difference between falling into sin, and living a life of sin. IMO, if you are living a life of sin, (continually sinning, not WANTING to stop, not repenting, etc.) I would argue if you have the Holy Spirit in you. A true Christian would feel convicted of their sins and try to stop, because sin does not please God. 1 Samuel 15:23 says "Disobedience is as bad as the sin of sorcery."

If someone is living a life of sin and IS convicted of their sin, yet denying the Holy Spirit in continuing to live a life of sin, the Holy Spirit will eventually depart that person.

I could give a TON of Scriptures that condemns fornication. But I think this one sums it all up nicely.

"If you love me, you will obey my commands." (John 14:15)

 

[Weasel7711]

True, but living in the same house as your friend/boyfriend/girlfriend/fiancé is NOT sin in any way shape or form, and the bible doesn't in any way say that it is, either - no wonder really, because what could possibly be sinful about it in the first place?

I'm sick of christians MAKING UP sins and then accusing each other for committing them. It's shameful.

It's a sin to think that way! I know because I just made it up!

 

[Weasel7711]

if people can live together with out sex. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I don't think they can.. Temptations kicks in..
and if you go back to the start of this thread that is what I was asking..

True, but thats their decision to make. We don't tell people to go out in the hills and live in a hut alone because if they lived in society it would cause them to sin. Just because people have the tendency to sin doesn't mean we should prohibit being able to choose not to.

 

[Sunset2009]

Did Jesus, His disciples, John the Baptist and other prophets not often exclaim, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near!"? It is definitely NOT biblical to stay out of another Christian's business when they are in the midst of sin. Look at Samuel and Eli. Look at Nathan and King David. Samuel and Nathan told Eli and King David they were in sin, and the latter two THANKED them for telling them they were in sin! I think Christians should take the same reaction. As Christians, we shouldn't sin, and as Christians, we should welcome anyone telling us we are in sin, so we can get out of it and repent. The Bible has a whole list of the kind of people who won't get into heaven unless we are sorrowful and repent of our sins.

'Tis all. I completely disagree with your post, and so does the Bible. (Referring to Tropical Wilds)

 

[meblonde]

How are people that are doing things that go against the word of God supose to know if as chiristian we don't ask about their choices?
My friends that are living together and having sex act as if there is nothing wrong with it. AND THERE IS. As a christian I don't think we are to just put on blinders and look the other way.
We are suposeto bring them closer to God and if we say something that might make them stop and think about their actions.. How could that be wrong?
It's not!

 

[meblonde]

who even said I was gossiping look at the thread . I started..
And now are you not doing the same to me you acuse me of doing?
Humm interesting!
Are you trying to browbeat me into not talking to my friends about living in sin?? hummm.

Time to move on..

 

[Johnnz]

My values are for sex and marriage to together. But that has never prevented my from welcoming and accepting those who don't share my values, Christian or otherwise. Why? That's what God's love is all about. And, I don't think I am above reproach either.

John
NZ

 

[Sunset2009]

I'm guessing that these folks know that somewhere right now, somebody thinks they're living a life of sin. The fact that some people find living together without being married a sin is no newsflash. If this was a case of simply informing them "Hey, FYI... My interpretation of the word of God is that you're wrong..." and they genuinely didn't know that some people interpret the Bible in such a way, you may have a point...

However, I'm guessing that these folks know that some people won't approve and have still made the choice to live together. Thus, they don't care what outside opinions state. Meaning, by interjecting your opinion, when they know of some people's belief that it's a sin, serves no real purpose, outside of being obnoxious, nosey, and looking for a reason to gossip. If this was a case of the informed informing the uninformed, that'd be one thing... But when the party already knows what the opinion of some is and consciously makes their choice inspite of the opinions of others, that's your signal to butt out, not your signal to push harder and claim with righteous indignation about how what they're doing (which doesn't affect you), is against your personal beliefs and that they did not immediately repent to you and reformulate the entire dynamic of their relationship so as to appease your sense of morality.

Besides which, there is a point where informing somebody that they're engaging in sin turns into not actually an exercise for the benefit of those percieved to be in sin... But a means of moral exhaultation of the person doing the warning, and a means to serve as idol gossip for the masses. What I'm seeing here isn't "Gosh, they're in sin... I wish they knew that!" but gossip of who's doing what with who in who's house and why that puts them in a position of moral inferiority to the person doing the gossiping. Gossip, by the way, being a sin just as much as living together as an unmarried couple (if you're inclined to believe the latter is a sin).

If you were bombarded by Atheists who told you to give up your belief in God because it was foolish and a waste of time, would you find this helpful or annoying? You'd probably find it annoying, and offensive, that people who don't know you are asking you to give up your beliefs so as to fit the beliefs that they have. You'd find it to be a totally offensive interjection into your life, and that such demands were inappropriate. And rightly so, since I'm sure you know that there are people out there who don't agree with your beliefs, but inspite of said criticisms you make the choices you do in your life and spirituality.

This exactly what the folks in your church, who's living arraingements and sex lives you're so fixated on, have done. Made a choice that they know people will not like because it's in their best interests. The fact that it's not what you'd like them to do doesn't really matter, as your opinion on the subject is really not important as their lives do not effect you. Your opinion was heard, it was rejected, time to move on. Browbeating people into believing as you do is not someting God asked you to do.

If we are exclusively talking about two unmarried people living together, you are right, it is simply an opinion that it's wrong or okay. However, I could give several Scriptures that would indeed instruct us to stay away from such a thing.

If we are talking about fornication, there is no "opinion" about it. As Christians, we are to follow God's word, and the Bible also tells us that it is better to tell someone their wrongdoings, rather than keep our mouths shut and act like nothing is happening. If we fall into enough sin, it can indeed lead us away from Christ, and then we can lose our salvation. So it is indeed important we let people know, if we love them.

 

[holo]

If we are exclusively talking about two unmarried people living together, you are right, it is simply an opinion that it's wrong or okay. However, I could give several Scriptures that would indeed instruct us to stay away from such a thing.

Such as?

If we fall into enough sin, it can indeed lead us away from Christ, and then we can lose our salvation. So it is indeed important we let people know, if we love them.

No offense, but this is so gravely untrue that I have to speak up against it. You didn't gain salvation by sinning little enough, and you won't lose salvation by sinning too much. Nobody gives you a free gift and then demands that you work for it, lest they take it back. You never saved yourself in the first place, how could you "un-save" yourself later? Granted, His grace is free and it's your choice to stay in or out of it, but it's certainly not sin that keeps you in or out of it! It's faith.

 

[holo]

How are people that are doing things that go against the word of God supose to know if as chiristian we don't ask about their choices?
My friends that are living together and having sex act as if there is nothing wrong with it. AND THERE IS. As a christian I don't think we are to just put on blinders and look the other way.
We are suposeto bring them closer to God and if we say something that might make them stop and think about their actions.. How could that be wrong?
It's not!

True, it's not wrong. But I'm not sure how effective it is. For example, I just said something to you in this thread to make you stop and think about your actions (and bring you closer to God, so to speak, though you can't get any closer than you already are). But does it work? Does it make you change your mind, repent even?

I really don't know. But as you say, I refuse to put on blinders and look the other way. I, and so many of my friends, have suffered so much and so needlessly because of stupid christian tradition and culture, and I have a heart for all those who are victims of that, and that's why I speak up against it.

And at the same time, I try to remember that if I ask someone to be willing to change their mind, I should be equally willing to change mine.

 

[Sunset2009]

I'd be interested in seeing them, because I've yet to come across them. Thought I have to say, I've got scripture that states that you shouldn't wear mixed fiber clothes, and if you come to a toll you can't pay, leave your maiden daughter with the tollkeeper and take a night in the Inn, then come back the next morning and get your daughter and go through the toll as the fee is paid in her company. So obviously, the acceptable and appropriate behavior of Biblical times doesn't always apply to today...

There are rules and instructions that were made under the Old Covenant that no longer apply since Jesus came to earth and He is the New Covenant. I don't know why people try to justify things by saying, "The Bible says to do this! So why don't you follow that anymore?" If we go by that, why do you follow ANYTHING the Bible says? We are no longer under the Law as the Israelites once were. I may be young, but you can't get me with that one.

As for the verses that directs towards it being unwise for two unmarried, yet romantically involved people to not live in the same home alone, here are a couple.

The Bible tells us numerous times to "flee sexual immorality" (1 Cor. 6:18) and even goes as far to say the sexually immoral are indecent people (Rom. 13:12-13) and tells us to not even eat with them (1 Cor. 5:11). Not too mentions in 1 Corinthians 6:9, the Bible tells us those who sin sexually (other translations say fornicators) will not inherit the kingdom of God. How does any of this apply to an unmarried couple living together? Clearly, to sin sexually is not something someone should even be tempted with. To put yourself and your partner in an intimate setting that has been reserved for married couples for thousands of years (not living together until marriage, that is) is not wise.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 tells us that if our souls are pure, we will "abstain from the appearances of evil." Look at the original post of this thread! To the OP, the said unmarried couple is appearing to be partaking in evil together and sinning against themselves and God. Even this could cause the Christians around them to stumble, which we are also told in Scripture to prevent from happening.

In John chapter 4 when Jesus was talking with the Samaritan woman at the well, He told her to get her husband and come back to Him. When she told Him she had no husband, He replied in saying, "You are right to say you have no husband. Really you have five husbands, and the man you live with now isn't even your husband." (John 4:18) Now, I understand this isn't something to base doctrine on, however, this Scripture makes it sound like Jesus was speaking in a disapproving tone that the woman had been divorced many times and is now living with a man she's not married to.

So may the Amish share with you the multiple sins you're making by your lifestyle? Can the Catholics inform you of your hersay? Can Atheists, out of love, tell you that there is no God? Can Muslims tell you that you're bound for hell for worshipping Jesus? Can all these sins, seen as grevious by the people who hold these beliefs, tell you of your multiple violations repeatedly and in a manner that both demeans you and your personal choices, and impacts the manner in which you're viewed by your loved ones? All passionately, and with proof consistant to their personal beliefs, find you in the wrong, and such reproach comes from love, afterall...

This honestly would not bother me. I would see they are very passionate about what they believe in and want to share it. To be bothered by it, would be to be convicted of it, or to feel insecure in your own way of living and in your own personal beliefs.

As I said, there is a line where informing of wrongdoings becomes berating and unsolicited interpretation of a doctrine the person being preached to might not believe in (and probably doesn't believe in if they persist in the behavior even with the knowledge that some believe it to be spiritually wrong), and an exercise in feeding the pride and sinful nature of the person doing the preaching. People who are so quick to point out that they have a right to point out the sin in others often forget the passages where they are told that they are to turn the other cheek, forgive those who sin as they'd wish the Lord to forgive them, forgive those who trespass (as they themselves make tresspasses), love those who sin inspite of their sins and not cast them out for their inherent sinful nature, and that what they measure in judgment is measured back at them in the same severity and with the same lack of forgiveness by God. They also forget that all sin in their various ways, as human beings are sinful creatures by God's own word... And they seem to ignore that God is infiniately more forgiving than man, so a sin you see in another human being may have long ago been repented of and erased from that person's heart by God himself... So to continue judgment is not only unChristian and unGodly, but it is blasphmy as it questions the actions of God.

Here's the thing. I wouldn't tell an Atheist that they a displeasing God by doing sin #1 or sin #2, because since they don't believe in God, they don't care if they are disobeying Him. However, as Christians, we have committed our lives completely unto the Lord and hopefully strive to make Him happy, and that would mean sacrificing old, selfish sins. What I'm saying is that above all else, we need to strive to make Christ happy, that should be our number one goal. And if a Christian is confronted with one of their sins, they should respond as Eli or King David did in the Bible, be thankful that a brother or sister in Christ pointed their sins out, and repent because that's what pleases the Lord.

I'm fairly certain the same judgment as to people's motivations and actions, if lumped upon you with the same unrelenting severity, would not be seen as a loving or helpful act.

That is absolutely false. If I was sinning, I would want people to point it out. Honest! If I was doing something that totally went against Scripture, I would very much welcome and love someone coming up to me, opening their Bible and showing me what I'm doing wrong. It's called instruction, and I would respond this way because I want to please the Lord above all else.

Proverbs 27:5 tells us, "Open rebuke is better than secret love."

(Sorry this is long.)

 

[holo]

As for the verses that directs towards it being unwise for two unmarried, yet romantically involved people to not live in the same home alone, here are a couple.

The Bible tells us numerous times to "flee sexual immorality" (1 Cor. 6:18) and even goes as far to say the sexually immoral are indecent people (Rom. 13:12-13) and tells us to not even eat with them (1 Cor. 5:11). Not too mentions in 1 Corinthians 6:9, the Bible tells us those who sin sexually (other translations say fornicators) will not inherit the kingdom of God. How does any of this apply to an unmarried couple living together? Clearly, to sin sexually is not something someone should even be tempted with. To put yourself and your partner in an intimate setting that has been reserved for married couples for thousands of years (not living together until marriage, that is) is not wise.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 tells us that if our souls are pure, we will "abstain from the appearances of evil." Look at the original post of this thread! To the OP, the said unmarried couple is appearing to be partaking in evil together and sinning against themselves and God. Even this could cause the Christians around them to stumble, which we are also told in Scripture to prevent from happening.

This is taking thing too far and out of context, though.

Fleeing sexual immorality doesn't have to do with where you sleep and eat. Well, granted, some christians do seem to be hopelessly subject to all sorts of vile temptations (probbably because they subject themselves to all these commandments, and the commandment is the power of sin, not against it). But I would argue that normal people don't. If you have to live in a certain place to avoid sin, you have a serious problem - but don't blame it on your locations! The problem is more likely that you're trying to live according to rules rather then resting in grace. That's how it's been for me, anyway; when I stopped thinking "must... not... have... sex" and (to be honest) just stopped giving a damn, it turned out that respecting myself and my woman was so natural and easy that I wouldn't even dream of trying to take advantage of her before we were both ready.

But you know, that's what will happen when we try to live according to rules and laws and commandments - the law may be good, but it will take our focus AWAY FROM our loved ones and AWAY FROM Christ and all we are left with is a big fat temptation.

This christian assumption that if you live in the same house, you must be giving into this irresistible sexual temptation is not only wrong and unfair, it is also a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for avoiding "all appearance of evil," well I really don't see what's evil about me sharing a home with my fiancé. It looks far more evil that I'm walking around in fine clothes while stepping over junkies and hobos on the street. It looks much more evil that christians, my brothers and sisters, will be even more worldly than the world and condemn me and my fiancé and our entire relationship based on nothing but appearance. Even unsaved people do better than that. So I find any accusation of "looking evil" wholly hypocritical.