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"Living Together" An Update

Wagonmaker

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I recently posted a thread called "We are living together out of wedlock" and my initial question brought on quite a discussion. I want to share what the Spirit has revealed to me since that time. I hope this helps others in my situation.

Here is the original post:

"I know the orthodox view of this situation. But are there exceptions to the rule since I'm not really a member of a specific church? I am a Christian, but I think a lot of rules are relative, or at least situational. What do you think?"

The response was overwhelming in favor of me not living with my girlfriend. But boiled down, my dilemma is not about living under the same roof (or even sleeping in the same bed). Taking the question and stripping it of appearances, the issue is one of fornication. And the question isn't about whether or not premarital sex (fornication) is a sin. Fornication clearly is immoral, as Scripture plainly teaches. But here is where it gets dicey for me, and here is why I call on the godly to pray on my behalf...

I am in love with an unbeliever. She and I have been together off and on for many years. We have survived a long distance relationship and the challenges of forgiveness after infidelities. Last year she moved back to town and is living with me.

I say she is an "unbeliever" because she does not have a religious background of any kind. That said, she's one of the most godly women I have ever met.

The main "religious" influence in her life has been me (a daunting and sobering realization). So we are in this thing, for good or ill...

I am planning to ask for her hand in marriage in March (for reasons that are too involved to discuss here). We will then most likely have at least a one year engagement (again, for reasons too involved to get into here).

So here's the recent revelation... an old friend of mine (who used to be a student in my college Sunday School class who is now a pastor of his own church) posted an article on his FB regarding fornication. The post spelled out plainly the crisis many now face in the light of God's eternal truth. You can read the article here.

Since fornication cannot be justified in the light of sacred Scripture, the main course of action I see is to discuss the issue with my girlfriend (again!) and let her know that I have taken a firm stand, based on my own faith, against us crossing this formidable line.

I cannot possibly live out a purposeful life while living contrary to my convictions. No one can, as a house divided against itself must necessarily fall. And since I am convinced beyond doubt that sleeping with her while being out of wedlock is incorrect behavior, I must stand firm.

I want to be a positive role model to my children. I want to live a fully integrated life, not some piece-a-meal, compartmentalized, hypocritical flim-flam of an existence. In short, I want to walk in the Light.

Fornication paints a picture of Christ using the church without being unified with her.. an incorrect picture indeed.

One last thing... last night it dawned on me that this is the very issue that I have struggled with since my first years in ministry. I was a full-time Baptist minister for over a decade. I was asked to resign from my first job as youth minister at age 19 when it was discovered that my girlfriend (later my wife) and I were committing fornication. This was in 1993. Now divorced, and exactly 20 years to the YEAR, I am dealing with this great behemoth of an obstacle that keeps me away from God's richest blessings on my life.

Is this coincidental? Maybe. Is it ordained by God to strengthen a driven and thoughtful, albeit bleeding, warrior in Christ? Absolutely.

Please pray that I will be firm in my commitment to bring this issue to light, and that my girlfriend, who has always been a bright light of love and understanding (without "religion"), will take my commitment seriously and allow me to lead us in a more fitting direction. Please pray that my peripheral struggle (sexual temptation in general) is abaited through the power of the Spirit.

I am committed to straightening my path in preparation for the Lord. The hardships that temptation brings are acute, reminding me always that the enemy is alive and well, and he plays for keeps. May God save us all from our greatest weakness.
 

Wagonmaker

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Another update...

I brought up the subject to my gf, and as expected, she resisted to the idea. It isn't that she is willfully disobedient to God. She certainly does not wish to live an immoral life. The question for her is, Is premarital sex necessarily immortal for everyone.

I cannot see a way out of the dilemma. She feels that we have been together too long for us to suddenly just stop having sex altogether. She says, and I quote, "It just seems silly."

I told her that if I am ever going to be the knight in shining armor that she deserves, I have to live a fully integrated life. I cannot compartmentalize my actions from my convictions. Otherwise, my mind will be splintered, and there will be little reason not to justify any sin.

I explained that for me, sexual union is a sacred sharing, and that I have not taken it seriously or sacredly with her. I also explained that fornication is one step away from adultery (which I have committed as well). Where is the line? If I am to heal, I have to take a stand.

The conversation did not resolve the issue, but we read Ephesians 5 together and we plan to attend church tomorrow. The topic: "Trust Issues".

God is doing a mighty work. In my confusion, I still trust that he will be faithful to deliver us from this conflict.
 
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Luther073082

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So it's been a while since the last thread and I don't feel like going through all of it again, so excuse me if this question was already asked.

Why is it the two of you can't just get married?

While I certainly think it's great that you are trying to follow God's word in this and stop committing fornication, when you are in a relationship that has been going on for a long time and that relationship has been sexual for that long period of time, it certainly does introduce some difficulties.

It may be easier to just get married.

The only difficulty I see with this is that you and your girlfriend are not eye to eye on a major moral issue, and there could be in the future other moral issues in which you might not see eye to eye on.

Say she becomes pregnant at a time that is not convient in your life. Does your girlfriend believe that abortion is murder and not an acceptable solution.

That part concerns me, as I don't believe that it's wise to marry someone who does not share your faith and moral values.
 
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Wagonmaker

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Luther, I have the same concern. I know that she and I differ on the abortion issue. She doesn't share a black and white view. However, I know her heart and her conscience well enough to know that she would never abort in the event of a pregnancy with me, regardless of timing. So this really is a non-issue.

It's funny you mention just getting married. As difficult as this would be at this time, I am beginning to consider actually having the ceremony prepared and ready on the night I propose in March.

One of her objections to abstinence is that we have talked about being married in three years (when she finished school). I figure that my conscience and obedience to my God is more important than my plans and timetable. Therefore, I may just ask her to marry me, and have all our friends, family, and a minister there on site to marry us then and there.

It's extreme but it would solve all the issues.
 
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Wagonmaker

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That's the spirit. Talk less, marry more.

I was thinking of surprising her for her birthday and ask her to marry me (In March), but then I thought, why not get married that night? And then I thought why wait til March? My birthday is in February. Why not proposed then... And have the minister present, and all our friends?
 
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Rushing into a marriage out of convenience - I don't care how horny (aka "burning") you are - is NEVER a good idea.

This whole relationship smacks of impending disaster. A believer with a non-believer. Premarital sex. Cohabitation. Already your beliefs aren't lining up with hers and it's causing strife between you.

This is going to end in flames, in a big and painful way. If not now, later on the down the road, when you've rushed into a marriage and years have passed and one (or both) of you suddenly realize what you've gotten into.

I'd have ended this relationship yesterday.
 
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Luther073082

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Rushing into a marriage out of convenience - I don't care how horny (aka "burning") you are - is NEVER a good idea.

This whole relationship smacks of impending disaster. A believer with a non-believer. Premarital sex. Cohabitation. Already your beliefs aren't lining up with hers and it's causing strife between you.

This is going to end in flames, in a big and painful way. If not now, later on the down the road, when you've rushed into a marriage and years have passed and one (or both) of you suddenly realize what you've gotten into.

I'd have ended this relationship yesterday.

I agree with you on the beliefs not lining up with hers, that concerns me.

But I wouldn't call it a rush into marriage just cause they are horny. They have essentially been living as though they where married for years. If the two where eye to eye on beliefs then there certainly would be no reason for them not to get married.

The difficult thing about this situation is one has to recognize the high level of difficulty a person is put in when they have been in a relationship for years and they love the person but yet they convert to the Christian faith while the other person does not.

Just breaking up may be for the best. But actually doing so would be very difficult for him to do.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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For one I am glad you are standing up for whats right Wagon Maker in terms of saying no more sex. My advice is if all else fails and she says its her or God when it comes to sex... well I think the decision should be obvious. Will it crush you both to split? Of course (I know so). If you two are truly meant to be she will hopefully start to understand and even become a christian.

But it looks like that may not be the current route and hopefully you two will marry. Do I think marriage is a good idea? Well my view doesn't matter really. You are both adults. Just realize marriage is for life (my view anyways). So be sure you are ready for whatever trials you may have with each other if she decides to stay a non-believer.

So many I know marry a nonbeliever because they really feel God is changing who they are with. They tell me things will be fine. But years later most of them do divorce for various issues. Maybe about 25% of the spouses actually end up getting saved. Thats just from who I know mind you. The fact she read Ephesians with you is a good thing.
 
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The way I see it, WM and his girlfriend are already married (not legally, but in spirit). To undo that would be just like divorce, not something I think most of us Christians would condone. WM, you are doing an honorable thing here, by marrying her, yet following your convictions in the meantime. I don't know exactly where your GF stands spiritually, but it sounds like she has a heart for God; even if she doesn't follow conventional "Christian" standards, let's not forget that it's the heart that God looks at. I wish you all the best in your marriage, God's richest of blessings.
 
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Wagonmaker

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Defensiveness smacks of conviction.

And as far as you throwing the word "ignorant" at me... I just had to laugh. I've been in the exact same situation before, and I lived a very sordid life in my younger years. "Ignorant" is one thing I am not :)

Dear, I do not need human beings playing Holy Spirit for me to feel conviction. My defense is a reaction to your grossly obvious misunderstanding of my situation (in other words, ignorance). Just because my situation reminds you of an experience you once had does not mean that your advice is relevant to me. You have simply projected your life onto mine.

I want to caution you in the future to consider carefully the advice you give. In my case it happens to be disrespectful and inappropriate. Words have power, and I don't appreciate you cursing my relationship with the love of my life. I don't hold it against you since I am quite certain you didn't mean to get this reaction from me, but truly, had I been a weaker brother in Christ who relied solely on the advice given on this forum, you could have done serious damage to my situation.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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That is true. Christians who are weaker can be given advice that can mess things up forever. In some cases causing them to leaving christianity all together. When I had my seizure and brain injury people on this forum (not all of them) told me it must be because I was a bad sinner. And they said me not being healed showed to I was not a good christian. Eventually I got tired of it and started to get mad at christians in general and at God. >.< It wasn't until a sister in Christ came along and helped me back by being stern, but also loving in what she said.

Also Wagonmaker. I feel for you. I tell my fiance we are married in spirit, just not legally like you do. Many dislike the idea I tell her that. But we admit we aren't legally married. When your bond with someone is strong you can feel the love and it does feel like your bonded in spirit. Its why I am exciting we are legally married in just over a month.
 
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