Living Like Christ Day by Day, How?

[True Blu]

You get the impression that all Christians are supposed to breath in and breath out the Gospel of Jesus every day and every second, that we base every single thought and decision off of God's word and will, that we bring up God in every conversation and testify daily of the things God has done and pray constantly about everything.

That is wonderful, marvelous. I love it. Hear it every Sunday. Awesome.
...
But I've never done that.
That's not okay, I mean, I call myself a Christian. But my life consists of thinking about my daily plan and going to school, going to work, visiting with friends, and in little of that do I seem to fit God into it.

It's like I'm too busy to think about any of the important life-at-stake stuff. It bothers me so. Day in and day out, with little to no goals of actually trying to start my day with keeping the Gospel close to my heart and praying for God's guidance over my day and for my family/ friends.

Gracious. If I died, I could go to Hell. I'm not sure whether or not that is too extreme, but in any case it's serious. I need God's help.

 

[dcalling]

Remember, we are all sinners, it is not that because we are Christians we are better than others, we are all sinners, we are not better than others.

The only difference between us and the ones who don't believe is that we depend on God to save us (the evidence of such is that we try our best to follow God's words), and that God will save us base on our faith (our sins are redeemed by blood of Jesus).

There will be a difference to those who went to heaven, "If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames" 1 Cor 3:15.

 

[True Blu]

Remember, we are all sinners, it is not that because we are Christians we are better than others, we are all sinners, we are not better than others.

The only difference between us and the ones who don't believe is that we depend on God to save us (the evidence of such is that we try our best to follow God's words), and that God will save us base on our faith (our sins are redeemed by blood of Jesus).

There will be a difference to those who went to heaven, "If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames" 1 Cor 3:15.

I understand that we are all still sinners, but because we're redeemed in Christ we don't live in sin. We turn to God for salvation from our sins and we're not held accountable because Jesus took that on himself.

But aren't we still left with a calling?

Are you saying that we can just live on like the rest of the world not worrying about God because that was all "taken care of" and it doesn't matter anymore? We're saved and just move on?

I'm sorry but that just doesn't line up for me. We're like everyone else minus that we label ourselves Christians and go to heaven? Clarify if that was misunderstood, please?

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

These are completely my thoughts to myself - I won't be offended if you discard

You get the impression that all Christians are supposed to breath in and breath out the Gospel of Jesus every day and every second, that we base every single thought and decision off of God's word and will

Actually, this is precisely what Jesus commands us to do: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind (Luke 10:27) and Pray then like this ... Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:9–10). And lest we think that these are just "guidelines" as a sort and that we are not really expected to be able to carry them out perfectly, Jesus also commands us, You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).

But, as Paul writes, I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do (Romans 7:19). We are not perfect, but that does not mean that we are excused from striving to do what the Lord has commanded of us. Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ He says, and not do what I tell you? (Luke 6:46)

I think the key lies in understanding what repentance really means.

The very first thing that the Lord says when he leaves the wilderness after being tempted is, according to Matthew, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (4:17). We think of the word "repent" in terms of
feeling sorrow or regret, but in reality it is used in Scripture to mean something more like a change to the inner core of our being. "Repent" in the first sense (sorrow or regret) might be something we may do once and move on, but "repent" in the sense it is used in the Gospels is something that we carry on and struggle with throughout our life (cf. Philippians 2:12). It describes, I think, Paul is getting at when he tells us Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect (Romans 12:2)

 

[True Blu]

These are completely my thoughts to myself - I won't be offended if you discard




Actually, this is precisely what Jesus commands us to do: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind (Luke 10:27) and Pray then like this ... Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:9–10). And lest we think that these are just "guidelines" as a sort and that we are not really expected to be able to carry them out perfectly, Jesus also commands us, You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).

But, as Paul writes, I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do (Romans 7:19). We are not perfect, but that does not mean that we are excused from striving to do what the Lord has commanded of us. Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ He says, and not do what I tell you? (Luke 6:46)

I think the key lies in understanding what repentance really means.

The very first thing that the Lord says when he leaves the wilderness after being tempted is, according to Matthew, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (4:17). We think of the word "repent" in terms of
feeling sorrow or regret, but in reality it is used in Scripture to mean something more like a change to the inner core of our being. "Repent" in the first sense (sorrow or regret) might be something we may do once and move on, but "repent" in the sense it is used in the Gospels is something that we carry on and struggle with throughout our life (cf. Philippians 2:12). It describes, I think, Paul is getting at when he tells us Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect (Romans 12:2)

That makes sense to me. I love reading about Paul, especially how he says I do the things I hate and don't do the things I should do (I paraphrased). It proves that even God's most righteous servants fail sometimes, because we're all still human.

But see how following Christ is a life-long journey? It's a day-by-day learning process, and I feel like I'm not going through the process. I guess it should be simple from here on out, God says to do this, do it. But have you ever felt when you went to do something for God, maybe worshipping him, reading the bible, praying about something profound or over someone, or doing an act of charity that you were just going through the motions? That the Holy Spirit wasn't stirring you and you felt nothing? Like a stick in the mud... Very muddy mud.

What's with that? I know repentance is a gift from God, so we ask for Him to grant us it, I suppose. I just thought of something, so which is it Gregory: do we approach God in worship or does God compel our hearts to worship him?

Sorry, I know that was a mouthful. I truly appreciated your thoughts on it, nonetheless. Thank you.

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

Dear Blu,

I am more than happy to share my opinions on this. They are all really good questions that I think we all need to ask ourselves. I am coming from an Orthodox Christian perspective, though, so others may disagree (maybe quite strongly) with some of all of my answers.

But see how following Christ is a life-long journey? It's a day-by-day learning process, and I feel like I'm not going through the process. I guess it should be simple from here on out, God says to do this, do it. But have you ever felt when you went to do something for God, maybe worshipping him, reading the bible, praying about something profound or over someone, or doing an act of charity that you were just going through the motions? That the Holy Spirit wasn't stirring you and you felt nothing? Like a stick in the mud... Very muddy mud.

I am not going to give you a very straight answer, I'm afraid, because I am really not in any kind of position to advise anyone on anything. However, I will borrow a couple of writings I know about.

First, your comment reminded me vaguely of a really, really old story - like maybe 1,800 years old. It comes from a collection of stories about Egyptian monks who fled to the desert to avoid persecution from the Romans back in the 200's. The story goes like this:

Abba Lot went to see Abba Joseph and said to him, 'Abba as far as I can I say
my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as
far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?' then the old man
stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten
lamps of fire and he said to him, 'If you will, you can become all flame.'

I am convinced that one of the favorite operating modes of the devil is not presenting us with fearful apparitions, or trying to draw us into Satanic cults, or something like that. It is, rather, warping our own perception of our true nature (in the image and likeness of God), making us think of ourselves, our lives, and those around us in trivial terms, and then causing us to either perceive God in the same trivial terms (e.g. "my buddy Jesus") or at the other extreme to think of Him as something totally unapproachable and unreachable.

What we cannot do, I am also convinced, is to equate a relationship with God in terms of emotional gratification. The Christian life on earth is one of perseverance, temptation and sometimes suffering. Scripture tells us this in many, many places, but they are verses that are often glossed over:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. (Matthew 11:12)

and, of course:

Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. (Matthew 16:24)

Once we understand that we must face a struggle and not a "walk in the park", perhaps we put such "dry spells" as you describe in perspective. Continuing to pray and strive to love God and our neighbor even when we feel emotionally distressed about our lack of spiritual progress is, to my mind, exactly what we should expect from Scripture. That does not mean, however, that we need be miserable, because our faith can convince us that God is with us even if one part of us (our emotions) cannot perceive Him.

On the other hand, the devil, having already thrown obstacles between us and God, now tempts us with despondency - to believe that we will always feel alone and off-track. Here, I would refer to a Scripture from one of the Deuterocanonical books, the Wisdom of Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus):

If you come forward to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for temptation.

Set your heart right and be steadfast, and do not be hasty in time of calamity.

Cleave to him and do not depart, that you may be honored at the end of your life.

Accept whatever is brought upon you, and in changes that humble you be patient.

For gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Trust in him, and he will help you; make your ways straight, and hope in him.

You who fear the Lord, wait for his mercy; and turn not aside, lest you fall.

You who fear the Lord, trust in him, and your reward will not fail;

You who fear the Lord, hope for good things, for everlasting joy and mercy.

Consider the ancient generations and see: who ever trusted in the Lord and was put to shame? Or who ever persevered in the fear of the Lord and was forsaken? Or who ever called upon him and was overlooked? (2:1-10)​

What's with that? I know repentance is a gift from God, so we ask for Him to grant us it, I suppose.

This gets at what I was trying to explain about what I think are the two senses of "repentance". Repentance is actually something we do, not something we receive. The Greek word used in the Gospel implies a turning to God. It means more than just asking forgiveness for our sins and moving on. It actually involves asking for the strength and grace to transform ourselves; to become pure in heart, if you will, so that we can see God (Matthew 5:8)

do we approach God in worship or does God compel our hearts to worship him?

Here is how I would answer this question, though some may disagree.

God does not compel us to do anything. He does not force Himself on us. Ever.

He is, however, waiting for us. He is anxiously waiting for us - even chasing after us. We can see that God pursued the people of Israel despite their having turned from him countless times. I stand at the door and knock, said the Lord (Revelation 3:20). At the same time, though, He tells us, knock, and it shall be opened (Luke 11:9). Do you see? He desires an encounter with us much more than we desire an encounter with him. The model for us to understand is the Prodigal Son. The Father saw his wayward son way off in the distance and what did he do? But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. His son tried to recite the apology he had been rehearsing ever since leaving the pig farm, but his father would not hear any of it. Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found (Luke 15:20,22-24).

I think I rambled on quite a bit.

Does any of this seem to make sense?

 

[True Blu]

Dear Blu,

I am more than happy to share my opinions on this. They are all really good questions that I think we all need to ask ourselves. I am coming from an Orthodox Christian perspective, though, so others may disagree (maybe quite strongly) with some of all of my answers.



I am not going to give you a very straight answer, I'm afraid, because I am really not in any kind of position to advise anyone on anything. However, I will borrow a couple of writings I know about.

First, your comment reminded me vaguely of a really, really old story - like maybe 1,800 years old. It comes from a collection of stories about Egyptian monks who fled to the desert to avoid persecution from the Romans back in the 200's. The story goes like this:

Abba Lot went to see Abba Joseph and said to him, 'Abba as far as I can I say
my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as
far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?' then the old man
stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten
lamps of fire and he said to him, 'If you will, you can become all flame.'

I am convinced that one of the favorite operating modes of the devil is not presenting us with fearful apparitions, or trying to draw us into Satanic cults, or something like that. It is, rather, warping our own perception of our true nature (in the image and likeness of God), making us think of ourselves, our lives, and those around us in trivial terms, and then causing us to either perceive God in the same trivial terms (e.g. "my buddy Jesus") or at the other extreme to think of Him as something totally unapproachable and unreachable.

What we cannot do, I am also convinced, is to equate a relationship with God in terms of emotional gratification. The Christian life on earth is one of perseverance, temptation and sometimes suffering. Scripture tells us this in many, many places, but they are verses that are often glossed over:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. (Matthew 11:12)

and, of course:

Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. (Matthew 16:24)

Once we understand that we must face a struggle and not a "walk in the park", perhaps we put such "dry spells" as you describe in perspective. Continuing to pray and strive to love God and our neighbor even when we feel emotionally distressed about our lack of spiritual progress is, to my mind, exactly what we should expect from Scripture. That does not mean, however, that we need be miserable, because our faith can convince us that God is with us even if one part of us (our emotions) cannot perceive Him.

On the other hand, the devil, having already thrown obstacles between us and God, now tempts us with despondency - to believe that we will always feel alone and off-track. Here, I would refer to a Scripture from one of the Deuterocanonical books, the Wisdom of Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus):

If you come forward to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for temptation.

Set your heart right and be steadfast, and do not be hasty in time of calamity.

Cleave to him and do not depart, that you may be honored at the end of your life.

Accept whatever is brought upon you, and in changes that humble you be patient.

For gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Trust in him, and he will help you; make your ways straight, and hope in him.

You who fear the Lord, wait for his mercy; and turn not aside, lest you fall.

You who fear the Lord, trust in him, and your reward will not fail;

You who fear the Lord, hope for good things, for everlasting joy and mercy.

Consider the ancient generations and see: who ever trusted in the Lord and was put to shame? Or who ever persevered in the fear of the Lord and was forsaken? Or who ever called upon him and was overlooked? (2:1-10)​

This gets at what I was trying to explain about what I think are the two senses of "repentance". Repentance is actually something we do, not something we receive. The Greek word used in the Gospel implies a turning to God. It means more than just asking forgiveness for our sins and moving on. It actually involves asking for the strength and grace to transform ourselves; to become pure in heart, if you will, so that we can see God (Matthew 5:8)



Here is how I would answer this question, though some may disagree.

God does not compel us to do anything. He does not force Himself on us. Ever.

He is, however, waiting for us. He is anxiously waiting for us - even chasing after us. We can see that God pursued the people of Israel despite their having turned from him countless times. I stand at the door and knock, said the Lord (Revelation 3:20). At the same time, though, He tells us, knock, and it shall be opened (Luke 11:9). Do you see? He desires an encounter with us much more than we desire an encounter with him. The model for us to understand is the Prodigal Son. The Father saw his wayward son way off in the distance and what did he do? But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. His son tried to recite the apology he had been rehearsing ever since leaving the pig farm, but his father would not hear any of it. Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found (Luke 15:20,22-24).

I think I rambled on quite a bit.

Does any of this seem to make sense?

I honestly don't mind your rambling! No worries about that!

It also doesn't bother me whether or not you are Orthodox, though personally I'm not (I just call myself a Christian because I believe in God and try to follow His word, and I believe that Jesus is the center of it all. I try to keep it as simple as possible without much adding on to it. I'm just a simple person simply trying to know God). I was curious about this denomination once and looked up Orthodox worship in Russia, it was really pretty and I did admire the sort of conservativeness and tradition about it. Not sure if all Orthodox is like that. Wait, do you guys believe in Purgatory, and is it similar to Catholicism? That's a little rabbit trail question but I was curious to know.

Anywho, yeah, your answers make sense!

But I've never heard that God doesn't compel us before. I was taught under the notion that He does, because He lays things on our hearts to pray about or go do. I've felt that before. Does this fall under the notion of complete free will then? Well, I guess that's obvious, but it's a bit of a strange notion to me. But anything I've never heard before is strange, and my nature is to reject it and say it's not true. Most of the time I go back and find out it was true after denying it several times. I'm stubborn that way, sadly.

And the repentance thing, what about 2 Timothy 2:25?
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

I took that from the KJV, not sure if you use that or not. To be honest, I don't because it's hard to understand, but some consider it more true than others, so I used it for convenience.

I am convinced that one of the favorite operating modes of the devil is not presenting us with fearful apparitions, or trying to draw us into Satanic cults, or something like that. It is, rather, warping our own perception of our true nature (in the image and likeness of God), making us think of ourselves, our lives, and those around us in trivial terms, and then causing us to either perceive God in the same trivial terms (e.g. "my buddy Jesus") or at the other extreme to think of Him as something totally unapproachable and unreachable.

I did like that! I will have to remember that. That's a good thing to know and look out for. It actually reminds me of a church I left two years ago, where they had a youth ministry that I was in and they would say "holla fo Jesus" and have a "party in the name of Jesus" theme. I hope it's obvious why I left. It also reminded me of a short little three minute video I just watched earlier about how most people who call themselves Christians aren't even real Christians because they have no fear of God. If you are curious and want to see it, it's right here, but you don't have to by all means.

 

[dcalling]

I understand that we are all still sinners, but because we're redeemed in Christ we don't live in sin. We turn to God for salvation from our sins and we're not held accountable because Jesus took that on himself.

It is rather obvious to me that we are going to live in sin for the rest of our lives. I tried really hard not to get angry with my brothers and I have failed, which is murder.

But I will keep trying to live as close to Christ as I could, till I die, then I won't live in sin any more.

But aren't we still left with a calling?

Are you saying that we can just live on like the rest of the world not worrying about God because that was all "taken care of" and it doesn't matter anymore? We're saved and just move on?

I'm sorry but that just doesn't line up for me. We're like everyone else minus that we label ourselves Christians and go to heaven? Clarify if that was misunderstood, please?

We are definitely not going to live like the rest of the word. We are different in that:
1. we know we are sinners.
2. we try out best to not sin (keep failing but keep trying). We will keep making progress because the ones who are truly saved will show up on his/her actions.


In the mean time, stop worrying about the past sins that you can't make up (I have been mean to people who are not here any more), but make up the ones that can be fixed (some guy was here worried about living together with his girlfriend, then just get married!). We will all keep sinning, we have to fix them after we sin (i.e. the tax collector paid 25% to people he cheated).

 

[Emmy]

Dear TrueBlue. In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked: " Master, what must I do to have eternal Life?" Jesus answered:
" You know what is said in Matthew 22: 35-40: 1) Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
2) Love thy neighbour as thyself: ( treat all you know and all you meet, friend and not friend, treat them as you would love to be treated) In verse 40 it tells us: " on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Living like Jesus did would be: Love God with heart, soul and mind, and love all others as you would love to be treated. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told:" ask and you shall receive," then thank God and share all Love and Joy with your neighbour. God will see your loving efforts, and God will bless you. Keep asking and receiving and thank God,
then share all love and joy with your neighbour.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," change from being selfish and unloving to be Loving and Caring.
The Holy Spirit will help and guide you, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY.
Let us follow our Lord`s Commands and live a loving life and do loving deeds. Remember to " ask and receive,"
then thank God and share all love and joy with all around us. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring. I say this with love, TrueBlue. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

You get the impression that all Christians are supposed to breath in and breath out the Gospel of Jesus every day and every second, that we base every single thought and decision off of God's word and will, that we bring up God in every conversation and testify daily of the things God has done and pray constantly about everything.

That is wonderful, marvelous. I love it. Hear it every Sunday. Awesome.
...
But I've never done that.
That's not okay, I mean, I call myself a Christian. But my life consists of thinking about my daily plan and going to school, going to work, visiting with friends, and in little of that do I seem to fit God into it.

It's like I'm too busy to think about any of the important life-at-stake stuff. It bothers me so. Day in and day out, with little to no goals of actually trying to start my day with keeping the Gospel close to my heart and praying for God's guidance over my day and for my family/ friends.

Gracious. If I died, I could go to Hell. I'm not sure whether or not that is too extreme, but in any case it's serious. I need God's help.

Hi. The Christian life is a nice full life . God doesn't expect us to be always in a spiritual state of mind...........he knows we have to make a living, take care of our dwelling, meet with friends, have hobbies, etc.... he just want to be #1 in our life and we can do that thru regular praise, worship, and telling him he is an awesome Creator to us. Its a daily walk . Its a fun life as a Christian. It is deeply fulfilling and meaningful . I wish I had loved the Lord much sooner in my life, but im glad that I did although I was 32 when I invited him into my life.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You get the impression that all Christians are supposed to breath in and breath out the Gospel of Jesus every day and every second, that we base every single thought and decision off of God's word and will, that we bring up God in every conversation and testify daily of the things God has done and pray constantly about everything.

We are not to breathe in and out the Gospel of God everyday. That is not what the Word tells us. And God doesn't expect some great turnaround where all of a sudden one day we start being everything God wants us to be. What God wants and expects are that we love God and love other people. That is the simple answer.

Many people will not take you seriously if you only talk about God or even only talk about them finding God. Because people are use to 'talk' being very easy to do. That is why the Lord tells us that we should have certain traits called 'fruit of the spirit' that show people that there is something different about us, that we are in balance, that what we say is what we do and what we do is the same as what we say. That's the HARD Part. Is having those both in balance AND then loving God with all our hearts, soul and minds.

But love doesn't come from just wanting to love. You can try, try, try but true love comes from relationship. Remember that Jesus is yours and that you are Jesus' child. That's the relationship with God that Jesus Christ died to give you. A one-on-one each day walking with the Lord.

Bless you.

 

[Gregory the NonTheologian]

I honestly don't mind your rambling! No worries about that!

It also doesn't bother me whether or not you are Orthodox, though personally I'm not (I just call myself a Christian because I believe in God and try to follow His word, and I believe that Jesus is the center of it all. I try to keep it as simple as possible without much adding on to it. I'm just a simple person simply trying to know God). I was curious about this denomination once and looked up Orthodox worship in Russia, it was really pretty and I did admire the sort of conservativeness and tradition about it. Not sure if all Orthodox is like that. Wait, do you guys believe in Purgatory, and is it similar to Catholicism? That's a little rabbit trail question but I was curious to know.

Anywho, yeah, your answers make sense!

But I've never heard that God doesn't compel us before. I was taught under the notion that He does, because He lays things on our hearts to pray about or go do. I've felt that before. Does this fall under the notion of complete free will then? Well, I guess that's obvious, but it's a bit of a strange notion to me. But anything I've never heard before is strange, and my nature is to reject it and say it's not true. Most of the time I go back and find out it was true after denying it several times. I'm stubborn that way, sadly.

And the repentance thing, what about 2 Timothy 2:25?
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

I took that from the KJV, not sure if you use that or not. To be honest, I don't because it's hard to understand, but some consider it more true than others, so I used it for convenience.



I did like that! I will have to remember that. That's a good thing to know and look out for. It actually reminds me of a church I left two years ago, where they had a youth ministry that I was in and they would say "holla fo Jesus" and have a "party in the name of Jesus" theme. I hope it's obvious why I left. It also reminded me of a short little three minute video I just watched earlier about how most people who call themselves Christians aren't even real Christians because they have no fear of God. If you are curious and want to see it, it's right here, but you don't have to by all means.

Hi, Blue -

I had an email issue, so I had to change my name slightly.

I really liked that video! He is 200% correct, in my opinion.

On Purgatory, no Orthodox Christians don't believe in Purgatory.

I hadn't thought of the verse from 2 Timothy you cited. You make a good point - I should not have said that it is something that God does not give, because, of course, everything comes from God. But I think the KJV translation of 2:25 actually reinforces what I was saying. If one thinks of "repentance" as sorrow or forgiveness, the passage doesn't really make any sense, does it (e.g. "God ... will give them forgiveness to the acknowledging of truth")?. When one takes "repentance" as a "change of heart" or "change of mind" it makes perfect sense, I think: i.e. one cannot have full knowledge of the truth unless one changes one's life/mind/heart. I suppose someone could try to interpret the verse to mean that if one repents, then they receive knowledge of the truth as a reward, but I think that would stretch things.

On God compelling us ...

The notion that we can only do good by God's grace (or, as some might say, compulsion) became the popular doctrine of the Church of Rome in the 400's. This happened because in the late 300's a Briton named Pelagius was teaching that we don't need God's grace at all to do good. Augustine rightly protested loudly and wrote a great deal against Pelagius, but in the opinion of the eastern Churches (Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople, and Alexandria) went too far. It had always been understood in the early Church (and is still understood in the eastern Churches - which now comprise the Eastern Orthodox Church) that man's free will and God's grace cooperate in synergy.

Since the Reformation developed out of the Church of Rome and not the eastern Churches, it retained much of the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, including the Augustinian view of free will, which has been passed down to most Protestant churches.

John Cassian, who was a contemporary of Augustine's, wrote against Augustine's view of free will in his Conferences. He provides a good argument from Scripture for synergy, I think.

In Chapter 9 of Book XIII of his Conferences he draws heavily from the New and Old Testament to show how both grace and free will cooperate in our salvation:

Whence human reason cannot easily decide how the Lord gives to those that ask, is found by those that seek, and opens to those that knock, and on the other hand is found by those that sought Him not, appears openly among those who asked not for Him, and all the day long stretches forth His hands to an unbelieving and gainsaying people, calls those who resist and stand afar off, draws men against their will to salvation, takes away from those who want to sin the faculty of carrying out their desire, in His goodness stands in the way of those who are rushing into wickedness. But who can easily see how it is that the completion of our salvation is assigned to our own will, of which it is said: If you be willing, and hearken unto Me, you shall eat the good things of the land, Isaiah 1:19 and how it is not of him that wills or runs, but of God that has mercy? Romans 9:16 What too is this, that Godwill render to every man according to his works; Romans 2:6 and it is God who works in you both to will and to do, of His good pleasure; Philippians 2:13 and this is not of yourselves but it is the gift of God: not of works, that no man may boast? Ephesians 2:8-9 What is this too which is said: Draw near to the Lord, and He will draw near to you, James 4:8 and what He says elsewhere: No man comes unto Me except the Father who sent Me draw Him? John 6:44 What is it that we find: Make straight paths for your feet and direct your ways,and what is it that we say in our prayers: Direct my way in Your sight, and establish my goings in Your paths, that my footsteps be not moved?What is it again that we are admonished: Make you a new heart and a new spirit,Ezekiel 18:31 and what is this which is promised to us: I will give them one heart and will put a new spiritwithin them: and I will take away the stony heart from their flesh and will give them an heart of flesh that they may walk in Your statutes and keep My judgments? Ezekiel 1:19-20 What is it that the Lord commands, where He says: Wash your heart of iniquity, O Jerusalem, that you may be saved,Jeremiah 4:14 and what is it that the prophet asks for from the Lord, when he says Create in me a clean heart, O God, and again: You shall wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow? What is it that is said to us: Enlighten yourselves with the light of knowledge;and this which is said of God: Who teaches man knowledge;and: the Lord enlightens the blind,or at any rate this, which we say in our prayers with the prophet: Lighten my eyes that I sleep not in death,unless in all these there is a declaration of the grace of God and the freedom of our will, because even of his own motion a man can be led to the quest of virtue, but always stands in need of the help of the Lord? For neither does anyone enjoy good health whenever he will, nor is he at his own will and pleasure set free from disease and sickness. But what good is it to have desired the blessing of health, unless God, who grants us the enjoyments of life itself, grant also vigorous and sound health? But that it may be still clearer that through the excellence of nature which is granted by the goodness of the Creator, sometimes first beginnings of a good will arise, which however cannot attain to the complete performance of what is good unless it is guided by the Lord, the Apostle bears witness and says: For to will is present with me, but to perform what is good I find not. Romans 7:18​

 

[ToBeLoved]

But I've never heard that God doesn't compel us before. I was taught under the notion that He does, because He lays things on our hearts to pray about or go do. I've felt that before. Does this fall under the notion of complete free will then? Well, I guess that's obvious, but it's a bit of a strange notion to me. But anything I've never heard before is strange, and my nature is to reject it and say it's not true. Most of the time I go back and find out it was true after denying it several times. I'm stubborn that way, sadly.

And the repentance thing, what about 2 Timothy 2:25?
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

I took that from the KJV, not sure if you use that or not. To be honest, I don't because it's hard to understand, but some consider it more true than others, so I used it for convenience.

Hi True Blu,

The Holy Spirit resides in each believer's heart and the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of our sin. Usually in a very patient loving way.

Jesus is talking in the verse below right before the crucifiction.

John 16:7-8
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8" And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9c oncerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;"

 

[True Blu]

Hi True Blu,

The Holy Spirit resides in each believer's heart and the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of our sin. Usually in a very patient loving way.

Jesus is talking in the verse below right before the crucifiction.

John 16:7-8
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8" And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9c oncerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;"

Nice, so are you getting at that the Holy Spirit does compel us as Christians? (Well, I suppose it even convicts non-Christians to come to him, otherwise they probably wouldn't come, I think) Because that's what I've been taught, and it makes more sense...

Was that about right? I'm trying to be careful not assuming anything incorrect here!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nice, so are you getting at that the Holy Spirit does compel us as Christians? (Well, I suppose it even convicts non-Christians to come to him, otherwise they probably wouldn't come, I think) Because that's what I've been taught, and it makes more sense...

Was that about right? I'm trying to be careful not assuming anything incorrect here!

Yes, the Holy Spirit does compel us. You got it right.

 

[myarogancewasblottedout]

why talk about Jesus? besides nothing could possibly be greater in any stretch of imagination... the motive of the answer to that question is in story of Jesus resurrecting Lazarus? why did he resurrect Lazarus?... I do because for me love (as a single person) is like PTSD, it's always on my mind. and in Jesus's case, SHOULD always be on my mind (which makes me a slow, dumb but lovable employee). (this is also why even when people and family and myself and other religions curse me I can still believe I'm going to heaven, because I love Jesus and belong in the true vine and that is my goal on this planet)
Plus if you try to employ the verse http://www.biblehub.com/james/4-8.htm I found God's Holy Bible is his own words, and he may as well be telling some truth... atleast in the case of parables I find it's a matter of affirming his words in my life, so my prayers are affirmed in his power... like in book of numbers, God doesn't have to listen to curses, but turns curses into blessings, Jesus sees the big picture, and the Lord's Prayer's 4th verse is in itself a miracle of grace.

 

[aiki]

You get the impression that all Christians are supposed to breath in and breath out the Gospel of Jesus every day and every second, that we base every single thought and decision off of God's word and will, that we bring up God in every conversation and testify daily of the things God has done and pray constantly about everything.

That is wonderful, marvelous. I love it. Hear it every Sunday. Awesome.
...
But I've never done that.
That's not okay, I mean, I call myself a Christian. But my life consists of thinking about my daily plan and going to school, going to work, visiting with friends, and in little of that do I seem to fit God into it.

It's like I'm too busy to think about any of the important life-at-stake stuff. It bothers me so. Day in and day out, with little to no goals of actually trying to start my day with keeping the Gospel close to my heart and praying for God's guidance over my day and for my family/ friends.

Gracious. If I died, I could go to Hell. I'm not sure whether or not that is too extreme, but in any case it's serious. I need God's help.

People tend to enthuse about those things that they love. If Christ - who is salvation itself - does not fill your heart and mind and is not on your lips throughout every day it is because you don't really love him - or, at least, you don't love him very much. I remember when I was dating my wife. No matter where I was and no matter what I was doing, she was on my mind. In every spare moment my mind would quickly turn to thoughts of her. Why? Because I was in love with her! I have a friend who loves golf. He spends much of his time, energy and money chasing a little white ball all over creation. Guess what he's always talking about. Guess what dominates his thoughts. Yes, that's right: golf. And so it is with all of us and the things we love.

How do you come to love God deeply? Scripture gives us some pretty clear direction:

Luke 7:47
47 ... But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

Jesus said this to Simon the Pharisee. And he said it in condemnation of Simon. Why? Because Simon felt he was better, morally superior, to the woman who had been cleaning Jesus's dirty feet with her hair and tears. His self-righteousness made him blind to his Saviour, who sat before him. Not seeing his own wickedness as clearly as the woman saw her own, he had no love for Christ. He believed he had little of which to be forgiven and so he loved not at all the One whose forgiveness he needed. So, too, with all those who do not see their own desperate wickedness clearly. Those who think they aren't so bad, who believe God is getting something pretty special when He saves them, cannot love Him as they ought to love Him. It is only as one looks into the pit of their own deep depravity and sees their sinfulness clearly that they begin to understand the terrible, vile depths to which God had to stoop in saving them. They realize how profoundly unworthy they are of God's grace and mercy, which He extends to them in the sacrifice of His precious Son. But this realization propels the one who has it, not merely into condemnation and shame, but into staggering joy and wonder at the goodness and love of God. And that joy and wonder propel us into deep love of our Creator, Saviour and Heavenly Father.

No person has it within themselves to look fully into the depths of their own wickedness. This is something God must accomplish for each of us. He must show us how truly sinful we are. And He must lead us on from the sorrow and shame that results into the joy and love that is beyond. Will you let Him?

Galatians 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love...


Romans 5:5
5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

God does not want our own corrupt, self-centered human love. He wants the ultimate, perfect love, that is, His own love. How do we get this kind of love? Well, from Him, of course. Every born-again disciple of Jesus has the Spirit of God living within them and it is from the Holy Spirit that God's perfect love is transmitted to us. We just complete a circuit with God. He gives us His love and we reflect it back to Him. And this is, really, how the entire life in Christ works. All that God requires of us He first supplies to us in the Person of His Spirit. Our job, really, is just to get out of His way and let Him do so. And as we do, our love for God will expand, and deepen, and consume us. Is this what you want?

Selah.