Living inside of time

[DaveKerwin]

Please answer these questions with a Yes or a No.

1. Is God outside of time ?
2. Is he bound by time ?

3. When Christ died, did he die for only some of our sins?
4. Did Christ die for all the sins we would ever committ in our lives?



Lets answer these and then discuss further. See above stipulation.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
1. Is God outside of time ?

No.

2. Is he bound by time ?

No.

3. When Christ died, did he die for only some of our sins?

No.

4. Did Christ die for all the sins we would ever committ in our lives?

Yes.

God bless

 

[Ben johnson]

1. Is God outside of time ?
Yes.

2. Is he bound by time ?
No.

3. When Christ died, did he die for only some of our sins?
YES, ONLY FOR SOME of our sins. Only for those sins, from which we repent. "For if we continue sinning willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of fire which will consume the adversaries..." Heb10:26

4. Did Christ die for all the sins we would ever commit in our lives?
No. Only for those sins from which we repent.

"I tell you, unless you repent, you will all ...perish." Luke 13:3

If we are deceived by sin, into falling away from the living God, if we cease from repentance and walking with Him, it is as if we "crucify to ourselves Christ anew, and hold Him to contempt (public shame)". Heb3:12-14, 6:4-6

 

[paulewog]

1. Is God outside of time ?

I'll be a moderate today. Yes and no.

(Reason, in short: God is outside of tiem as He is timeless, yet He works inside of time)

2. Is he bound by time ?

No way

3. When Christ died, did he die for only some of our sins?

No.

4. Did Christ die for all the sins we would ever committ in our lives?

Yes. Isn't this the flip of the above question?

 

[paulewog]

By the way, Ben - if we had to confess every single sin or we wouldn't go to Heaven, then I'm afraid we're all doomed, there is no way we can keep track of every single sin we do. We sin a lot more than some might think.

Repenting is a change of heart/mind/will, not a phrase of "Please forgive me"

i.e., if you repent, you don't even WANT to sin anymore... as opposed to willfully sinning (where you sin, and then perhaps ask forgiveness later just because you want to be sure you go to Heaven, even though you never really repented).

 

[eldermike]

1)No, 2)No, 3)No, 4)Yes.

Number one needs clarification

 

[Ben johnson]

By the way, Ben - if we had to confess every single sin or we wouldn't go to Heaven, then I'm afraid we're all doomed, there is no way we can keep track of every single sin we do. We sin a lot more than some might think.

"He who knows what is right and does not do it, to him that is sin." Jms4:17

Are we saved by lack-of-sins? Or do we perish by a sin or by sins? None of that. Repentance is a continual attitude---we walk in submission to Him. The Law said that we made restitution for each and every crime---but we are under grace. Not to sin that grace may abound, but to submit to Him that His blood covers us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. That choice to submit, to walk in Him and in the Spirit---this is the perseverence, the steadfastness, the endurance, that keeps us saved.

We are saved by "keeping in His love" (Jd21). We are forgiven of the sins from which we repent, either specifically and/or by dwelling in Him in coninual submission and repentance. Yet if we are deceived into sin, backslidden (which MEANS "returning to practicing sin), we are no longer covered by forgiveness, we have forsaken Him.

"Each man is tempted by his own lust. Then lust concieved births sin, and sin brings death." Jms1:15

"Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren." Jms 1:16

There is no middle ground---either we walk in Him, or we walk in sin. "By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest..." 1Jn3:3-10 (please read this, START with verse 3...)

Dave, please forgive me if I have hijacked the thread...

 

[DaveKerwin]

1. Is God outside of time ?

Yes. (Maybe this was an akward question. God has foreknown our
entire lives before we were born, so he is outside of time.)


2. Is he bound by time ?

No. (though God is beyond time, he still works in it, and is not held by it)


3. When Christ died, did he die for only some of our sins?

No. (he died for all of them, key word ALL)


4. Did Christ die for all the sins we would ever committ in our lives?

Yes. (both past, present, and future.)



When I think of the payment Jesus paid on the cross. I think about the sins I will committ the more days I live. Did Christ die for this ? I believe he did.

Did he know before hand what he was dying for ? I belive he did. Because God is outside of time, he knew what we would do, and he died for us anyway.

What does this say about our salvation? Does it say that Christ died for ALL our sins, past, present, and future? Does it say that God already knows how I am going to sin against him in my days to come, but he died for me anyway ?

 

[Ben johnson]

Does it say that God already knows how I am going to sin against him in my days to come, but he died for me anyway ?

Did He die for the sins of the lost, too?








(hint: 1Jn2:2...)

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
Did He die for the sins of the lost, too?


(hint: 1Jn2:2...)

Ben, congrats on a short post, which was a pleasure to read

It is my belief that when Christ died, he died for my past sins, my sins of today, and my sins of tomorrow. His blood has washed me clean and imputed righteousness upon me, not by anything I have done, or will do!

When I trusted Jesus as my savior, he forgave me. I cannot "unwash" myself of his blood. I cannot become unrighteous in the eyes of God. I am his, my name is in the book of life. Will God ever cross my name off the list? Surely not!

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
Did He die for the sins of the lost, too?


(hint: 1Jn2:2...)

Not to follow suit in the hijacking of this thread but, Ben, you might want to look up the word "propitiation."  It means an atoning sacrifice.  Did Jesus atone for the sacrifices of all mankind, including those that would never come to Him?  As far as I know, you don't even believe all mankind has been reconciled to God.  As far as I can tell you think we still need to "accept."  If the propitiation of Christ's death needed something supplementary then it wouldn't be an atoning sacrifice.  In fact, if His death secures nothing for you specifically, then it doesn't really do anything for you specifically, does it?

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
When I trusted Jesus as my savior, he forgave me.

So what saved you?  His death, or your trusting Him?

I cannot "unwash" myself of his blood. I cannot become unrighteous in the eyes of God. I am his, my name is in the book of life. Will God ever cross my name off the list? Surely not!

So, you cannot do something to lose your salvation but you had to do something to get it?  That doesn't seem the least bit unbalanced to you?

God bless

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Reformationist
So what saved you?  His death, or your trusting Him?



So, you cannot do something to lose your salvation but you had to do something to get it?  That doesn't seem the least bit unbalanced to you?

God bless

Christ's payment of blood forgives my sins. It is availiable to everyone, and to me because I trust him.

I simply believed, salvation was not earned in the first place. It was given to me based upon my inability to attain it on my own. There is no imbalance here. Beyond this, I do not believe we are able to maintain salvation either, because we were unable to attain it in the first place. It is a supernatural thing. It's called the Grace of God. From this point on, do not put words in my mouth, thanks.

 

[eldermike]

We say Jesus died for "our" sins because that makes it easy to explain a complex doctrine. Jesus died because of sin period. It includes my sin but it's not beacuse of my sin. It's sin period.

 

[eldermike]

We say Jesus died for "our" sins because that makes it easy to explain a complex doctrine. Jesus died because of sin period. It includes my sin but it's not beacuse of my sin. It's sin period. we can't un-eat the fruit of the tree of knowdege of good and evil.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
Christ's payment of blood forgives my sins. It is availiable to everyone, and to me because I trust him.

While I agree with this to the extent that it is the work of Christ, not me, that is the reason my sins are forgiven I would have to say that it is completely contradictory to say that "it's His blood that forgives my sins" and then to say it's given to you "because you trusted Him."  It's either because of His work that your sins are forgiven, or it's because of your own.  By the way, your "trusting of Him" is your work.  If you can't comprehend what I'm saying then ask yourself this, "Before I did anything, were my sins completely forgiven based solely on the work of Christ, or, did I have to do anything to get it?"  If you have to add into the equation that it wasn't until you accepted His sacrifice that it was manifested in your life, then it wasn't His work that actually saved you.  It was your work of "accepting."

It was given to me based upon my inability to attain it on my own.

This is one place where I think you get off track.  God did not save you because you couldn't save yourself.  He was not obligated to do so.  He saved you because it was according to the counsel of His own Will and it served His purpose.  It wasn't about you.  It was about His Son.  It seems that you put way to much emphasis on yourself.

Beyond this, I do not believe we are able to maintain salvation either, because we were unable to attain it in the first place. It is a supernatural thing. It's called the Grace of God. From this point on, do not put words in my mouth, thanks.

From this point on you might want to be familiar with the words that come out of your mouth, thanks:

You had to do something to be saved:

WHEN I TRUSTED JESUS as my savior, he forgave me.

You cannot do something to lose your salvation:

I cannot "unwash" myself of his blood. I cannot become unrighteous in the eyes of God.

Seems pretty clear that I didn't put any words in your mouth.

God bless

 

[Ben johnson]

Did Jesus atone for the sacrifices of all mankind, including those that would never come to Him? As far as I know, you don't even believe all mankind has been reconciled to God. As far as I can tell you think we still need to "accept." If the propitiation of Christ's death needed something supplementary then it wouldn't be an atoning sacrifice. In fact, if His death secures nothing for you specifically, then it doesn't really do anything for you specifically, does it?

Paul says what he says. You and I disagree with "universal salvation", so then the only way to understand this verse, is that "propitiation is PROVIDED for all". The underlying understanding, is that He appeases the sins of all who receive Him.

I cannot "unwash" myself of his blood. I cannot become unrighteous in the eyes of God. I am his, my name is in the book of life. Will God ever cross my name off the list? Surely not!

What about Heb10:29, "how much severer punishment will he deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he WAS SANCTIFIED"?

And, Rev3:5, "He who overcomes will be clothed in white garments, and I will NOT BLOT HIS NAME from the Book of Life"?

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Reformationist

So, you cannot do something to lose your salvation but you had to do something to get it?  That doesn't seem the least bit unbalanced to you?

I never said we had to do anything to earn salvation. So your accusation me being "unbalanced" was a product of you putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing that would lead anyone to say I am unbalanced. Therefore, you put words in my mouth. Should I make it clearer to you ?

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Reformationist
It's either because of His work that your sins are forgiven, or it's because of your own.  By the way, your "trusting of Him" is your work. 

Who says your stipulations are the only possibilities? Jesus saved me, I did not save myself. He stood at the door and knocked. I needed to open to door. Which I did. It was not my own work that saved me, it was my recognition of my need. It was my recognition of my need. Repeition helps in learning. Repetition helps in learning. It was my recognition of my need, Jesus saved me.

This is one place where I think you get off track.  God did not save you because you couldn't save yourself.  He was not obligated to do so.  He saved you because it was according to the counsel of His own Will and it served His purpose.  It wasn't about you.  It was about His Son.  It seems that you put way to much emphasis on yourself.

On the contrary, this is where YOU are wrong. I take the emphasis OFF OF myself, and on to Christ, the one who did what I could not do !!

You are right, God was not obligated to save me, or you. But guess what, he has. But why? Check 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." God is not wiling that any of us perish, he wants all of us to recognize our sin and turn to him, accepting his love to us. He has not made us for the specific purpose of going to hell to be away form him. He made us so we could be with him.

From this point on you might want to be familiar with the words that come out of your mouth, thanks:

If this is what you have to resort to, then post somewhere else. Seriously.

You had to do something to be saved:

If you equate "believing" with "something", then fine, I`ll play your word game.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
Paul says what he says. You and I disagree with "universal salvation", so then the only way to understand this verse, is that "propitiation is PROVIDED for all". The underlying understanding, is that He appeases the sins of all who receive Him.

But, Ben,...that's not what Paul or the verse you referrenced says.  The verse says, "And He Himself IS the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."  He is the propitiation.  It doesn't even imply that we have to do something for Him to make that propitiation manifest.  Take a look at how this word is used again, in the same book:

1 John 4:9,10
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.<SUP>&nbsp; </SUP>In this is love, NOT THAT WE LOVED GOD,&nbsp;BUT THAT HE LOVED US&nbsp;and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Now tell me again, was the propitiation sent because we did anything, even loved God, or was Jesus sent as a propitiation because God loved us?&nbsp; Why is it again that those people who do love God actually are able to love Him?&nbsp; Hey, I know:

1 John 4:19
We love Him&nbsp;BECAUSE He first loved us.

One more thing...a propitiation IS an appeasement.&nbsp; It's not a "could be an appeasement" type statement.

What about Heb10:29, "how much severer punishment will he deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he WAS SANCTIFIED"?

Not sure what you believe this has to&nbsp;do with Jesus being a propitiation.&nbsp; This deals more with your favorite topic, that of apostasy.&nbsp;

And, Rev3:5, "He who overcomes will be clothed in white garments, and I will NOT BLOT HIS NAME from the Book of Life"?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Goodness man.&nbsp; Do you give God credit for anything regarding your salvation?&nbsp; Anyway, again, this deals with falling away, not being saved.

God bless