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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Little poll on which theory you believe in?
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View Poll Results: Which theory do you believe in? Young Earth CreationMatthias said:
425.00%Old Earth Creation
212.50%Theistic Evolution
637.50%Gap Theory
425.00%Voters: 16.
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brewmama
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Old Earth Creation
Having read quite a bit from the Intelligent Design movement, I now realize how flimsy the evolutionists' arguments really are. It is all based on atheistic materialism, and the denial of anything spiritual. We should be interested to some degree, because the materialists have such a stranglehold on public school curricula. The notorious atheist Boy Scout who sued the Boy Scouts became an atheist after being taught evolution in school. Since there is so much weakness and fallacy (not to mention dishonesty) in the entire evolution argument, it would behoove Christians to examine it more closely and critically.
I highly recommend Philip Johnson's books, especially Darwin On Trial (although it's an older one)
Having read quite a bit from the Intelligent Design movement, I now realize how flimsy the evolutionists' arguments really are. It is all based on atheistic materialism, and the denial of anything spiritual. We should be interested to some degree, because the materialists have such a stranglehold on public school curricula. The notorious atheist Boy Scout who sued the Boy Scouts became an atheist after being taught evolution in school. Since there is so much weakness and fallacy (not to mention dishonesty) in the entire evolution argument, it would behoove Christians to examine it more closely and critically.
I highly recommend Philip Johnson's books, especially Darwin On Trial (although it's an older one)
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I accept the theory of evolution, according to which life evolves through the process of mutation, random genetic drift and selection.
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I hope it doesn't cause anyone to "not choose to follow the path to Christ," but I really don't think I will ever figure out these mysteries of creation, indcarnation, etc.
Thank God we have theologians who have greater spiritual knowledge to answer these questions. All I can say is that I believe that God created the world somehow out of nothing.
Basil
Thank God we have theologians who have greater spiritual knowledge to answer these questions. All I can say is that I believe that God created the world somehow out of nothing.
Basil
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MariaRegina
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vanshan said:
This is so true. We have to humbly admit that there are some mysteries that are beyond us and learn when to quit trying to define Holy Mysteries.
Thank God that I am Orthodox.
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Some things may remain a mystery forever. However, some things can be discovered. Who is to say that we can't find out if evolution is true, and that we should just not even bother?
I'm sure people thought that Galileo's points were useless and unknowable, but now we know them to be facts.
I'm sure people thought that Galileo's points were useless and unknowable, but now we know them to be facts.
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MariaRegina
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I don't base my faith on Galileo.
His discoveries are nice but not necessary for my faith.
Notice how the East wasn't really affected by Galileo. I didn't hear of any excommunications coming from the EP.
His discoveries are nice but not necessary for my faith.
Notice how the East wasn't really affected by Galileo. I didn't hear of any excommunications coming from the EP.
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Okay, but a lot people are not Christians because of evolution. It's a theory that can't be ignored. We should have some understanding of it. If St. Augustine, St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom etc.. were living on earth today, I'm sure they wouldn't just ignore it. They would probably see if it was on any level compatible with Orthodoxy.Aria said:
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nyj
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A lot of people are not Christians because they can't come to grasps with someone rising from the dead too. Just because we cannot grasp the full meaning, or magnitude of something doesn't mean we should immediately abandon our faith because of it.Andreas said:
If someone leaves the Christian faith over something as trivial as a scientific theory, if it wasn't evolution, I believe it would have been something else. Evolution just happens to make a convenient scapegoat IMO.
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You raise a good point. I will differ with you, though. When somebody believes that all the evidence in the world is pointing towards evolution, and Christians are saying that Man stated with a literal Man and Woman, it may become almost impossible for that person to be a Christian.nyj said:
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nyj
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Fair enough.Andreas said:
From my vantage point, I do not see those two things as being mutually exclusive. So, while it may be "almost impossible" (which I don't necessarily agree with) it is not, truly, 100% impossible. Know what I'm sayin?Andreas said:
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MariaRegina
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All this nonsense.
All this dissipation.
One thing is necessary. Repentance.
Are you right with God?
Belief in a man-made theory doesn't count.
How do you treat your fellow man will.
Are you arrogant? Or do you post in love? This is what really matters. Forget theories. Live in the presence of God.
All this dissipation.
One thing is necessary. Repentance.
Are you right with God?
Belief in a man-made theory doesn't count.
How do you treat your fellow man will.
Are you arrogant? Or do you post in love? This is what really matters. Forget theories. Live in the presence of God.
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I agree with that. That's why we need more people saying "evolution and the Bible do not necessarily contradict each other, and here's why".nyj said:Fair enough.
From my vantage point, I do not see those two things as being mutually exclusive. So, while it may be "almost impossible" (which I don't necessarily agree with) it is not, truly, 100% impossible.
Sometimes I think we rest too much on the great thinkers of the past like St. Augustine etc... And we begin to rest so much on them we start to tune out the outside world, preventing us from ever having a great Church Theologian like him again.
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MariaRegina
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St. Gregory Palamas is one of our greatest theologians and thinkers.
If you really study his works on the Divine Energies - This is the key to creation.
Why trifle with men's scientific thoughts when we have great men like St. Gregory of Palamas.
Thank God I'm Orthodox.
If you really study his works on the Divine Energies - This is the key to creation.
Why trifle with men's scientific thoughts when we have great men like St. Gregory of Palamas.
Thank God I'm Orthodox.
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MariaRegina
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BTW, andreas
I was talking with some scientists about Energy and the Atom.
We are now talking particle and sub-particle physics where Energy resides. This is an exciting field that is humbling mighty scientists and leading them to a belief in God. How else can they explain this high level of physics.
And to think that St. Gregory Palamas led the way. A truly great saint and scientist. A true theologian of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Orthodox Church.
I was talking with some scientists about Energy and the Atom.
We are now talking particle and sub-particle physics where Energy resides. This is an exciting field that is humbling mighty scientists and leading them to a belief in God. How else can they explain this high level of physics.
And to think that St. Gregory Palamas led the way. A truly great saint and scientist. A true theologian of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Orthodox Church.
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