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You're insulting God if you praise Him for unstudied, unaccomplished, un-suffered, lazy-sloth skills. His healing merits praise for two reasons:You skipped a question. Did Jesus’ healing merit praise? Were those labors burdensome?
You're insulting God if you praise Him for unstudied, unaccomplished, un-suffered, lazy-sloth skills. His healing merits praise for two reasons:
- He ACQUIRED that skill over time.
- He COMMITTED to dying on the cross to pay for our sins. Otherwise He couldn't grant us healing mercies in the first place.
"The beginning" refers to the beginning/creation of our universe. The divine Word refers to the sum total of the divine substance and thus, ultimately, to all three holy Persons. That holiness merits praise only if Yahweh labored/suffered to acquire it.In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Yes you do. You've read my posts and seem frustrated for lack of ample refutation.He didn’t have to acquire anything. I have no idea where you got that idea.
Jesus, Yahweh - the Three Persons have always been one God.Do you believe that Jesus was God at the time of His incarnation?
First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.And your changing the subject, Jesus was praised before His crucifixion and before anyone knew that He would be crucified. What do you think Hosanna means?
As a matter of fact, my metaphysics is the only one to date that makes sense of the Incarnation. Nothing else offered to date - especially the Hypostatic Union -provides a humanly comprehensible explanation of how God became man.Do you believe that Jesus was God at the time of His incarnation?
First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.
I don't believe that.Yet none of these people who were praising Jesus thought He was God.
Which He was.They thought He was a prophet.
"The beginning" refers to the beginning/creation of our universe. The divine Word refers to the sum total of the divine substance and thus, ultimately, to all three holy Persons. That holiness merits praise only if Yahweh labored/suffered to acquire it.
Yes you do. You've read my posts and seem frustrated for lack of ample refutation.
Jesus, Yahweh - the Three Persons have always been one God.
First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.
As a matter of fact, my metaphysics is the only one to date that makes sense of the Incarnation. Nothing else offered to date - especially the Hypostatic Union -provides a humanly comprehensible explanation of how God became man.
No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.Where do you get the idea that Jesus had to “acquire” the skill to heal people over time?
I don't believe that.
Which He was.
No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.
The Three jointly acquired those healing skills, before creation, via ages of labor/suffering.
No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.
The Three jointly acquired those healing skills, before creation, via ages of labor/suffering.
Moot point. Direct Revelation is authoritative. If it convicted/convinced the conscience to praise Jesus, such was their obligation.You mean you refuse to admit that.
Moot point. Doesn't matter how you read it. After all, nobody I know, other than God, is understood to be three Persons. It is a paradox inevitably leading to some paradoxical statements.“On the next day the large crowd who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, “Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel.” Jesus, finding a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written,”
John 12:12-14 NASB1995
These people knew nothing of the Trinity because it had not been revealed yet. So they were shouting “blessed is God who came in the name of God”?
Human beings are supposed to praise each other for their accomplishments. Humans do acquire merit. Any prophet worth his salt had to labor/suffer his way into a degree of favor with God licensing him to perform miracles. I don't see that you're really proving much of anything significant here.So it’s obvious that they were praising Jesus because they thought He was a prophet because of the miracles He had performed and had no idea that He was God in the flesh.
That's not even an explicit example of praise.“So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. For this reason also the people went and met Him, because they heard that He had performed this sign.”
John 12:17-18 NASB1995
So the cross merits the same amount of praise both with, and without, labor/suffering? You don't seriously believe that. Someday, God's going to evaluate your work on this earth. By what measure? The IQ you were born with? Your pretty blue eyes and blond hair? No. He will evaluate you based on the definition of merit that I gave you. In fact, almost every sermon in the last 2,000 years revolves around that definition, and rightly so.Refusing to admit the truth doesn’t change the truth and your definition of the word “merit” is not even accurate.
I'll answer with a question. Did it involve suffering? Suppose you suffered nothing because you were fully convinced I'd pay you back the next day. In that case there would be little merit - but there would still be SOME merit, because we always suffer the agony of temptation. Meaning, the devil was tempting you to be a cruel person who refuses to lend me the money. You had to suffer to endure and overcome that temptation.If I won the lottery and I gave you a million dollars does that not MERIT gratitude or praise? Is it not deserving of gratitude or praise?
Incoherent assertion because none of us can comprehend atemporal consciousness. Again, consciousness is an ongoing stream of impressions more or less distinct('loud and clear'). Desistence of them is unconsciousness and/or death. The Three persons are a fellowship (they communicate/converse) which can ONLY be conceived as consecutive communications and thus as temporal. Also note that if God exists in my future - then my future already exists - which means I too exist in my future, thereby making me atemporal like God is.I already pointed out that because God is both omnipresent and omnipotent nothing is burdensome for Him. He is outside of time. He exists in ALL TIME SIMULTANEOUSLY.
What doesn't make sense is your assumption of an atemporality contradictory to the only possible definition of merit.Which means that everything takes place at the same time from His perspectives. Eternity is instantaneous to God. So even if it took Him all eternity to create the heavens and the earth according to your definition of merit it still wouldn’t merit Him any praise because it still wasn’t burdensome for Him since it was instantaneous from His perspective. So either way your argument doesn’t make any sense.
Um.er..Scripture teaches that God worked/labored and rested. It was YOUR decision to insinuate that Moses was lying when he claimed that God engaged in work/labor/suffering, followed by engaging in real rest.And your just pulling this out of thin air because this is not discussed in the scriptures.
What did I fabricate?If your just going to make things up as you go that are not even remotely discussed in the scriptures then I think we’re done with this discussion because it’s supposed to be a discussion of facts not imagination or fiction.
God says His ways are higher than ours - as high as the heavens above the earth. So let's take a look at YOUR view of God. He evaluates men based on real merit (I'm not really talking about salvation here). Yet He is a lazy sloth who did no labor/suffering to become holy while demanding the highest praise for it.And your just pulling this out of thin air because this is not discussed in the scriptures.
Moot point. Direct Revelation is authoritative. If it convicted/convinced the conscience to praise Jesus, such was their obligation.
Of course the Trinity had already been revealed. The Inward Witness reveals the same God to all of us - who is three Persons. Also verses such as John 3:16 suggest that the revelation was being made increasingly clear to Christ's contemporaries.
if Direct Revelation authorized them to praise Him. What are you trying to prove here? That people praised Jesus without proper warrant? If they did, Scripture certainly doesn't reprove them for it.
Human beings are supposed to praise each other for their accomplishments. Humans do acquire merit. Any prophet worth his salt had to labor/suffer his way into a degree of favor with God licensing him to perform miracles. I don't see that you're really proving much of anything significant here.
That's not even an explicit example of praise.
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